Duchess and gay story

Whiskas50 said:
And how do you KNOW they aren't. If you know anything about elephants AND considering she also lost a companion there is very high chance she is lacking same species contact. She is a wild animal - human companionship can never match that of her own kind. Also, don't start asuming things about myself. I am currently studying and have no desire to justify myself any further to you. From your attitude you clearly don't appreciate the sentience of this species, something you would have learnt if you had any insight into the animal.
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Sorry if you don't like my attitude, I was simply pointing out that you are making a general assumption that all elephants are the same. I didn't say I knew that much about elephants.
I think it was safe to say you hadn't visited these particular elephants or studied them, since you weren't aware of there existence earlier in this thread!
Whether these elephants should be left alone is questionable, but whether they should go to a sanctuary that doesn't even exist is not!
 
I have only just joined this forum so you only know my involvement in threads up until about 3 days ago!!!!! I have visited and studied Duchess for a long time before this so you can stop your insulting assumptions and take a step back. That is your opinion. Obviously retirement to a sanctuary is DEPENDENT on the building work going ahead. All i have said from the start is should a European Retirement Sanctuary be introduced then this would be the best place for Duchess, before she develps further stereotypic behaviours and related health problems and suffers like so many captive elephants from foot problems and lameness. If the sanctuary does go ahead, she would benefit from better substrates and freedom AND the opportunity to socialise if she wishes - something she is stripped of at the moment. And the social requirements of elephants don't vary from each individual to another - its INSTINCT.
 
It wasn't Duchess that I was implying that you hadn't known about, but you clearly didn't know about several of the others.
Anyway this is a pointless argument, which is not worth either of us wasting further time on.
 
Whiskas50 said:
. And the social requirements of elephants don't vary from each individual to another - its INSTINCT.
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They actually do vary as much as the social requirements of people. And moving an elderly elephant, with health problems to a new location, with keepers she is not familiar with, to an environment she is not familiar with at her age is highly questionable as the right solution. And having single elderly elephants in a zoo should become very rare in the future, as currently the aim is to keep the females in family groups, which should prevent them of ending up alone as they will have their children and grandchildren at the same facility.
 
No i didnt know about the others? I don't really understand your point. My argument is about Duchess, if others can benefit then thats great. I just hope the more people who watch and visit Duchess really look at her and really look inter her eyes. The eyes tell you everything...
 
Yes preferences vary within people and animals, but not basic needs. Human's need companionship to live happily - as do elephants. How about thinking about what she would gain! Better substrates, more space, mud baths and lakes, the OPPORTUNITY to interact with others if she prefers. Not to mention freedom from the constant stream of humans staring at her. She would have something in the life that she can actually communicate with - a life of silence is hell for both humans and elephants. But if thats what you believe then fair enough. I can't look at her and not see her mournfulness and exclusion.
 
That companionship does not always have to come from the same species, maybe you want to talk with the keepers about what she likes and how she interacts with them. This way you will get a completer picture of her situation and also understand why the zoo choose to keep her there.
 
Whiskas50 said:
No. I just hope the more people who watch and visit Duchess really look at her and really look inter her eyes. The eyes tell you everything...
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Sorry, I did say I would comment no further, but there is something wrong with this statement. I'll leave it for someone else to point out the deliberate mistake though!
 
The keepers at Paignton are professionals and care about Duchess like they do their own families. They know (with further expert advice) what is best for her. As far as I am aware the current curator wants to turn that whole area (giraffe/ele zone) into a more dedicated Savannah exhibit as at present it is a bit of a 'miss-mash', i.e. peccary, anoa, camel, takin etc. Therefore, there will be plans afoot, maybe even re-locating the rhino's to that area or extending the giraffe paddock to enable a bigger herd in a new mixed exhibit. Everything is on hold to allow Duchess to live out her days in absolute comfort. I have also spent a lot of time watching her closely in recent years and the keepers spend huge amounts of time with her daily and collect a lot of browse. Even with her blindness she is still very active and knows every contour and detail of that enclosure. She feels safe I'm sure of it.
 
Alright. I am exhausted from defending my want for a better life for Duchess. I just want her to be as happy as we can make her. If the opportunity arises for her to live in a more natural environment, one that resembles the wild existence we as humans dragged her out of, I feel we owe it to her to let her experience it - what it's like to be an elephant with all the perks of other companions and freedom even if it is just for a few short years =(

Just to clarify, I have never doubted the quality of care she receives or the fact that she feels safe. A person can feel safe but still be unhappy and I believe she can to. I think we owe her the chance to know a real elephants life or at least partly... can no one understand this?
 
Whiskas50 said:
Alright. I am exhausted from defending my want for a better life for Duchess. I just want her to be as happy as we can make her. If the opportunity arises for her to live in a more natural environment, one that resembles the wild existence we as humans dragged her out of, I feel we owe it to her to let her experience it - what it's like to be an elephant with all the perks of other companions and freedom even if it is just for a few short years =(

Just to clarify, I have never doubted the quality of care she receives or the fact that she feels safe. A person can feel safe but still be unhappy and I believe she can to. I think we owe her the chance to know a real elephants life or at least partly... can no one understand this?
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Are you saying she doesnt know she an elephant .Are you saying she is not happy where she is . i dont want to get into argument with you but its clear that your views on elephants have been influenced by other sources . the quotes you come out with is exactly the sort of thing i come across before and usually from minority groups that want all elephants out of zoos and into the so say wondeful sanctuaries .
 
I've been influenced by studying the species and seeing them in the wild. If we going to get into his then to be honest elephants shouldn't be in captivity at all. They don't belong there, their needs are too broad and their levels of sentience don't match the boundaries and lack of control they face behind bars. But they're there and that's not going to change. I'm just trying to improve their lives if the opportunity is there. And at the end of the day... A sanctuary with 3 times the space and better facilities AND the level of care to match a zoo will indeed benefit an ailing elephant. So no... she doesn't know what it's like to be a female member of an elephant herd surrounded by young and cousins. That is what she is programmed to experience.
 
pipaluk said:
Sorry, I did say I would comment no further, but there is something wrong with this statement. I'll leave it for someone else to point out the deliberate mistake though!
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I found the post amusing but maybe for different reasons. ;)
 
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