Beavers observed in Devon for the first time in 200 years :
Wildlife Extra News - Wild beavers spotted in Devon
Wildlife Extra News - Wild beavers spotted in Devon
Beavers in Devon
- Thread starter vogelcommando
- Start date
The item states they are 'European'- how do they know that if they don't know their source?
More refined attitude? Prefers wine to beer? Football over Gridiron? [insert any other potential stereotype].
In another link to the story apparently Devon Wildlife Trust have been involved in a closed reserve project using European beavers. I suspect that a certain Scottish gentlemen residing in Devon and closely linked to most beaver introductions in the UK would have some ideas as to the origins, off the record of course.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Some might be tempted into saying that the UK government's attitude towards the re-introduction of indigenous species is so timid and so hedged with obstructive red tape that it positively invites freelance operations.
But I wouldn't like to comment....
But I wouldn't like to comment....
And yet, somehow you did
Cool to see beavers coming back over there too. They were nearly driven extinct over here by the fur trade. It had massive effects on ecology. Now they are back.
Future of the Devon-beavers :
Decision due on future of river's beaver colony | Western Daily Press
Decision due on future of river's beaver colony | Western Daily Press
More on the Devon Beavers :
Wildlife Extra News - Devon beavers are to stay Natural England rules
Wildlife Extra News - Devon beavers are to stay Natural England rules
I once spoke to somebody who was looking to introduce wolves, bear, lynx back into Scotland. The easily would be wolves.
I was told that the wolf pack would have to remain very small and that getting various land owners to agree on it would be a nightmare although the Scottish deer populations would very easily sustain a large predator as currently they are just culled.
But is this really a 'reintroduction' - if there is already a limit on how big one pack is? There needs to be a sensible approach to reintroductions, and while I would love to see wolves being reintroduced to the Scottish Highlands, I personally don't know the countryside well enough to say whether it is a sensible move. I suspect not.
Personally the reintroduction of lynx is more logical, and the available space/prey could maintain a potential breeding population. That is if the sheep farmers/grouse hunters allow it to happen.
I can safely say that bears will never happen.
A typical range of one wolf pack (breeding pair plus offspring) in Central Europe (Germany) is 100 km2 (40 sq.miles) in summer and 200 km2 in winter. But it depends on available pray and density of human population.
Average human density is ca 150 per km2 in former Eastern Germany, the main area inhabited by wolves in Germany today. Scotland has density of only 67 per km2.
Average human density is ca 150 per km2 in former Eastern Germany, the main area inhabited by wolves in Germany today. Scotland has density of only 67 per km2.
But with the political power of big landowners who already made so much difficulties for the introductions of beavers and white-tailed eagles I do not see any big predators coming back to the UK even if it would be done in Scotland. Unfortunately the landownership structure, with many absent owners, has quite a negative ecological and economical impact on large parts of Scotland.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
The problem wouldn't be people, it would be sheep. Vast areas of the Scottish Highlands have been deforested and turned into grazing for the latter. Conflict would be inevitable until and unless reforestation occurs on a large scale.
The UK's island status means that natural recolonisation, which is happening across Europe with both lynx and wolves, is impossible. Any reintroductions would have to be very carefully managed, and that means having enough forest.
Please don't misunderstand me. Not only would I like Eurasian Lynx, Grey Wolf and Brown Bear back in the UK ( I could very easily imagine places in Skye, Wester Ross and Sutherland where bears might do well), but if UK conservationists are to have any long-term credibility in developing countries we must show that we are prepared to live with dangerous animals ourselves.
The UK's island status means that natural recolonisation, which is happening across Europe with both lynx and wolves, is impossible. Any reintroductions would have to be very carefully managed, and that means having enough forest.
Please don't misunderstand me. Not only would I like Eurasian Lynx, Grey Wolf and Brown Bear back in the UK ( I could very easily imagine places in Skye, Wester Ross and Sutherland where bears might do well), but if UK conservationists are to have any long-term credibility in developing countries we must show that we are prepared to live with dangerous animals ourselves.
Wolves and sheep can coexist if people are willing. But that would require a substantial change in the way sheep is kept.
I´ve distant relatives in Slovakia that run a large goat farm in the mountains, in the middle of huge forests, where wolves, lynx, bear live. Last 7 km from the nearest village require good offroad car in very steep terrain. They have night pens for their goats, protected by wire and a pack of white shephard dogs. I´ve never heard about any losses on their animals because of carnivores. It could be, maybe there are some, but they never deemed them important enough to talk about? BTW, their children often go to the school in the village by foot, without supervision.
I´ve distant relatives in Slovakia that run a large goat farm in the mountains, in the middle of huge forests, where wolves, lynx, bear live. Last 7 km from the nearest village require good offroad car in very steep terrain. They have night pens for their goats, protected by wire and a pack of white shephard dogs. I´ve never heard about any losses on their animals because of carnivores. It could be, maybe there are some, but they never deemed them important enough to talk about? BTW, their children often go to the school in the village by foot, without supervision.
How on earth far do the children have to walk to get there then?
I thought the same thing the last time I visited those areas.
In some ways I think Wolf would be the most problematic, given the ground they cover and the conflicts that arise where there are sheep etc although again there must be areas that could be set aside with them being given protection from any reprisals. They are IMO perhaps also the most important subject for reintroduction of these three carnivores, particularly in their role in reducing the overpopulation of Deer and therefore improving the overall habitat from being overgrazed by them.
I would say around 5-6 km, if they use shortcuts through forest. I once went there a little bit and it was very hard terrain, not even huzul ponies would be able to pass there.
That remainds me of my grandmother who grew up in flat rural northeast Hungary. She had school 10 km away and before she got a bike, she travelled there by foot. She took bread with butter early in the morning, went to school, had bread for lunch, then went to their field where she worked till nightfall and then back home. But she absolved only 4 years of school, before 11 she got her first full job, as a cook/nanny in a rich household in south Slovakia. (I took her this summer to visit family member in Slovakia and when we passed a nice house on roadside, she recounted the time she served there).
Sorry for beeing off-topic.