Will the Lynx roam soon again in the UK ?
Wildlife Extra News - First steps taken in lynx reintroduction into the UK
Wildlife Extra News - First steps taken in lynx reintroduction into the UK
Lynx re-introduction in the UK ?
- Thread starter vogelcommando
- Start date
adrian1963
Well-Known Member
Haven't we had Lynx in the UK for over 20 years unofficially that is?
I think this is really good news
Really where ?
Dotted all over the place; probably not in sustainable numbers in any given location but, for instance, they are certainly present in Northumberland in the wilder areas near the border with Scotland.
Same way that beavers have popped up intermittently even prior to the official reintroduction programme; people being impatient and a bit naughty and doing so illicitly and illegallly - supplemented by escapes from captive collections.
In terms of Northumberland specifically, I suspect there will be as few as 4 or 5 individuals in the entire county - so bearing in mind quite a few areas of the country won't be suitable habitat I would not expect there to be any more than 50 individuals tops in the whole UK, with few if any populations overlapping and sustainable.
The fact they have made so little impact, and remain in the realm of very strong rumour, is a good indication that an official reintroduction programme will demonstrate lynx will blend into the ecosystem quite nicely.
In terms of Northumberland specifically, I suspect there will be as few as 4 or 5 individuals in the entire county - so bearing in mind quite a few areas of the country won't be suitable habitat I would not expect there to be any more than 50 individuals tops in the whole UK, with few if any populations overlapping and sustainable.
The fact they have made so little impact, and remain in the realm of very strong rumour, is a good indication that an official reintroduction programme will demonstrate lynx will blend into the ecosystem quite nicely.
Dave, I suppose this takes into account the big cat sightings in the UK even thou I'd class Lynx as meduim size really . I mean the chances of them coming across each other must be extremely remote so breeding highly unlikikely - although saying that I do a lot of driving in the south east midlands and norfolk and some of the road kill is very hard to identify . I hope lynx are given a chance after all 92% of our land in the UK is not built on so there must be plenty of room for them to hide .
Another article :
Reintroduce lynx? Fine, but we must control the apex predator
Reintroduce lynx? Fine, but we must control the apex predator
C'mon, you can't say something that tantalising without adding some supporting evidence. Show us your cards!
Sorry, strong rumours doesn't cut it, there are strong rumours of faked moon landings, immigrant kidney thieves and Loch Ness monsters but I'm not accepting any of those either.
I'm hoping you've got better evidence for that than for Thylacine existence (which I want to believe, but deep down can't)?
The notion that there are feral "big" cats in the UK is hardly up there with conspiracy theories and "proper" cryptids.
Non-native cats have been kept by people in the UK for a long time, both in zoos and private collections. They can and do escape, and sometimes they are latter seen and killed.
The Hayling Island Jungle cat – Tetrapod Zoology
Another meeting with the Hayling Island Jungle cat | Tetrapod Zoology, Scientific American Blog Network
A lynx, shot dead in England in c. 1903 | Tetrapod Zoology, Scientific American Blog Network
From what I understand this doesn't get published, because the people who know and care have more important stuff to get published than "Did this thing that's obviously possible, and has had over a century to happen in, happen? Yes."
Non-native cats have been kept by people in the UK for a long time, both in zoos and private collections. They can and do escape, and sometimes they are latter seen and killed.
The Hayling Island Jungle cat – Tetrapod Zoology
Another meeting with the Hayling Island Jungle cat | Tetrapod Zoology, Scientific American Blog Network
A lynx, shot dead in England in c. 1903 | Tetrapod Zoology, Scientific American Blog Network
From what I understand this doesn't get published, because the people who know and care have more important stuff to get published than "Did this thing that's obviously possible, and has had over a century to happen in, happen? Yes."
I'm familiar, to a fair extent, with both cryptozoology (accepting "big" cats aren't cryptids) and conspiracy theories and to be honest I think there's better evidence supporting Bobby Kennedy being took out by someone other than Sirhan Sirhan than there being any significant amount of non-native cats living wild in the UK. Some would disagree with my assertion, I realise it's personal opinion and ultimately a matter of faith.
A handful of isolated incidents including, say, the Kellas Cat don't really support TLD's assertion that there may be up to 50 Lynx living wild in the UK.
I don't rule it out, I just believe that whilst it's possible it's not probable -hence me asking for evidence/sources*. I'd be genuinely interested to read more on the matter. What's the phrase, "amazing claims need amazing proof"?
* I've seen really clever documentaries on the moon landings being faked, that provided very persuasive evidence supporting their claims which accepted as face valuable and in isolation could be taken as "case proven". In a "willing to believe world" (evidenced by so many deity related religions based largely, if not entirely, on faith) I'm just a little more questioning rather than believing what I'd like to be true-I'm not being superior, it's just my stance.
The most solid piece of evidence was a roadkill lynx just outside Hexham on the B6305 - as such it is known there has been at least the one lynx present, the strong rumour is relating to the continued presence of multiple animals. There is a newspaper article on the topic at the following link:
Search for lynx in wild cat sightings - The Journal
And to clarify - my estimate of there possibly being as many as 50 lynx living within the UK is based on scaling up a rough estimate of 5 or 6 animals *maximum* in the North-East and applying it nationwide. I do not believe there is a sustainable population anywhere in the UK, at any rate.
The following quote from a 2012 book published by the Natural History Society of Northumberland, focusing on the reptiles, amphibians and mammals found in the region but also containing a chapter on the allegations of ABC's in Northumberland and County Durham, has the following to say on the matter:
By the by, of these options I suspect the second - that there are continued releases - is the most likely. The figure about how large a founder population would need to be in order to be near-certain to persist is interesting on another level, of course - it means that if the reintroduction were to go ahead on a trial basis but be deemed a failure, there would be little to no chance of the population establishing itself nonetheless without further supplement.
What bothers me about this is (And I know this a ZooChatter's problem 
) will it be pure bred Northern lynx or will they be sending in sub-specific hybrids or another subspecies? I'd like to assume Northern as I assume these were the lynx that were once native?
Another point, will the lynx be wild-caught and trans-located or captive bred and non-imprinted?
As for Dave's observations and facts regarding current native lynx, I'm firmly in the Shorts camp of it would be possible but I don't think it's probable that there could be up to 50 roaming the UK! (However nice that would be!
)
) will it be pure bred Northern lynx or will they be sending in sub-specific hybrids or another subspecies? I'd like to assume Northern as I assume these were the lynx that were once native?Another point, will the lynx be wild-caught and trans-located or captive bred and non-imprinted?
As for Dave's observations and facts regarding current native lynx, I'm firmly in the Shorts camp of it would be possible but I don't think it's probable that there could be up to 50 roaming the UK! (However nice that would be!
)Firstly, thanks TLD, it's interesting, but not convincing for me. I think we'll respectfully agree to differ on this one, though I'm open to further evidence.
But if the 5 or 6 maximum is not met, and the numbers in the North-East are zero that extrapolates to nil in the UK too.
I'd agree that this would be the most likely option, though I still don't believe it (I struggle to imagine that there's really that many Lynx in private hands, registered or otherwise, to be released in the first place). I'm presuming you'd concur that, longevity-wise and other reasons-wise, the post DWAL introduction release theory just doesn't hold water anymore?
But if the 5 or 6 maximum is not met, and the numbers in the North-East are zero that extrapolates to nil in the UK too.
I'd agree that this would be the most likely option, though I still don't believe it (I struggle to imagine that there's really that many Lynx in private hands, registered or otherwise, to be released in the first place). I'm presuming you'd concur that, longevity-wise and other reasons-wise, the post DWAL introduction release theory just doesn't hold water anymore?
What bothers me about this is (And I know this a ZooChatter's problem
Another point, will the lynx be wild-caught and trans-located or captive bred and non-imprinted?
Per your first point, I would hope that they would be Northern as this was the native taxon - although failing this, Carpathian might also be acceptable and possibly more suited to the altered state of habitat than the Northern would be.
Per your second point, I suspect they might use captive non-imprinted animals for any test run, then use wild-caught animals for any full-scale programme that gets a greenlight - no point risking the waste of wild individuals!
As for Dave's observations and facts regarding current native lynx, I'm firmly in the Shorts camp of it would be possible but I don't think it's probable that there could be up to 50 roaming the UK! (However nice that would be!
Oh, I'm not saying they are *native* lynx
To cite the nearest comparison in terms of a taxon we know and have proof is present - but which is more or less never seen - I believe the Vincent Wildlife Trust currently estimates the population of Pine Marten in England is 120 individuals, located in Northumberland, North Yorkshire and Cumbria, with a further 60 individuals in Wales. Granted this taxon is rather smaller than a lynx
but if 120 individuals can be present but seldom seen or recorded in three counties, I think that <=50 lynx dispersed between Lands End and John O'Groats is not a fantastical prospect.To cite the nearest comparison in terms of a taxon we know and have proof is present - but which is more or less never seen - I believe the Vincent Wildlife Trust currently estimates the population of Pine Marten in England is 120 individuals, located in Northumberland, North Yorkshire and Cumbria, with a further 60 individuals in Wales. Granted this taxon is rather smaller than a lynx
Yes, but I've a friend who's seen a Pine Marten in England and I suspect they've probably been filmed for TV. My argument is that any Lynx would stand out more.
Relating to sightings of ABC's (I've used that twice in different contexts today, a good day):
1. I'd refer to the old police adage that "eye witness evidence is some of the least useful evidence to prove anything";
2. Further evidenced by stuffed toys and shaved dogs that have been mis-identified.
Don't want to be a David Cameron and walk off after making my point before anyone can reply but my lunch hours over now. Laters amigo.
The only way that theory would have worked, I suspect, is if the resulting population *had* been in sufficient numbers to successfully breed and establish - which as you will have gathered I do not believe was the case.
adrian1963
Well-Known Member
most of the wild cats in the UK are escapee's from private collections or are from the few that were let out in the mid 70's when the dangerous animals act was brought in.
Lewis Foley who kept 2 lionesses had a friend who let 4 lynx free 2 male & 2 female in the Norfolk area
Lewis Foley who kept 2 lionesses had a friend who let 4 lynx free 2 male & 2 female in the Norfolk area