Where are all the zoo nerds?

[sooty mangabey]

An interesting question - or pair of questions - posted by @Snowleopard.

Clearly it is possible for people to lose their interest in zoos - but it is something that I just can't understand. I write as someone who has been obsessed with such matters since I was tiny, and, if anything, am even more obsessed now. Sure, I can get bored of individual zoos (few UK zoos thrill me, I must admit), or disillusioned with aspects of zoos (I find the lack of interest in animals per se, and the relentless - and to my mind falacious - focus on conservation to be depressing), but lose my interest in zoos? Never.

@Snowleopard also asked about attitudes towards Zoochat itself, and suggested that some long-time members have gone into hibernation, or even migrated away from the site. I think he has a point. Without wanting to sound too snooty about things, there is a great deal of old rubbish posted on here, often - and with apologies to those notable exceptions who fall into these categories, and don't spout nonsense - by young members who haven't been around for much time, and who show ignorance of zoo history, natural history, grammar, and common courtesy.

While I check the site most days, and look out for posts which have been made by those in whose views I am interested (even if I may not agree with them), and whose knowledge I trust, I confess to be being bored by a great deal of what is posted. There are posters who are no longer active whose absence makes the site weaker, certainly - but, likewise, as @Chlidonias has noted below, there were also a number of posters in earlier times whose output was execrable.

For now, yes, there is a great deal of rubbish to wade through, but so long as there are photographers like @Ro6Ca66 posting beautiful images (this fantastic one just caught my eye today - http://www.zoochat.com/336/caracal-exmoor-zoo-22-may-2015-a-414445/), occasional visitors such a @Batto making pithy interjections, regulars like @GentleLemur bringing wisdom and good humour, and threads such as that which will describe @Snowleopard's forthcoming trip to Texas, reports of the death of Zoochat may be exaggerated.

 

[Brum]

A very well written post Sooty, one I agree with entirely! The thing that I emphasise with the most is looking at a thread and seeing who has commented, certain member's posts doon't even get a look in at times which can be a bad thing because you may have missed a very important discussion before that user's post!

I can't see myself falling out of love with zoos and I can't see myself leaving ZooChat any time soon either, just going to ride out this storm like I have in the past. The quality will surely improve once again.

One last point; Bristol recently received a centipede (possibly new to Europe) which was reported in the national press. Amazingly none of the regular "zoo news crew" bothered to report this! Yet meerkat and capybara births are posted frequently? That is something I just didn't understand at all!?

 

[Macaw16]

Chatroom is usually just UK and US members.

Actually we regularly (if not nightly) have a member form Poland, a member from Russia, a member from Sweden, as well as one or two from the USA and a few form the UK.

P.S. why do I get a feeling everybody is talking about me?!?!?

 

[Benosaurus]

I too have noticed a big drop in activity by the Zoochat bigwigs (people who's posts attracted me to this site in the first place).

I only lurk on the European forums/gallery and find myself visiting them less and less. I've become very tired of the monotonous chit-chat posted on here, mainly by younger members (i.e. 16 or younger), who seem to come on here purely to have an inconsequential conversation and pretend to be an adult; which makes them sound even more childish (I want ZooGiraffe to come back and have free rein to shout at them). Yes there are few exceptions, but it's these certain members who's posts I'll just ignore completely (Me and Brum have talked about this). It's just a great shame that they have now become amongst the most prolific of posters.

The solution? Moderators being more strict by deleting said childish insipid posts. That or create 'ZooChat Junior'.

 

[Brum]

Another thing that has put a lot of users off is the whole "Friendly's" debacle and the drama they have caused! He's riled me up a few times and I know I'm not alone.

 

[savethelephant]

There are, however, a few members who's join date I see was a while ago and now are posting more and more frequently.

 

[Mr Wrinkly]

I have only been reading ZooChat since March, 2013, but have noticed a decline of informed discussion and an increase in childish comments and bickering. Some from immature teenagers and some from older forever-teen types, squabbling and sulking. I have given up following some threads about zoos of interest to me for this reason.

Some of the teens on ZooChat are among the most mature and knowledgeable, others are very irritating.

Also what is with all the polls, some reactivated and some new, that never get even 100 votes To me they are meaningless clutter. I think threads with no entries for two years should be locked.

ZooChat Junior would be good, or more PMs from the moderators offering friendly advice - at first. Maybe new joiners should not be posting for sixty days, hoping they would read and learn.

Still, ZooChat is a great source of news and information.

 

[ROY CROPPER]

Yes indeed , although a quite recent member to this interesting and informative discussion group I have noticed that there has been a dramatic fall in posts in recent times, and a lot of what is now posted is not of the best quality. I must say that I personally very much enjoyed the writings of that well read member Animal Friendly and his colleague Jane Doe, reading their posts always cheered me up and often made my day, for some unexplained reason I observe that Animal Friendly has been banned off zoo chat, may I suggest that the reason zoo chat has declined in recent times is because it has lost its star performers? as I also note that Miss Doe no longer seams to participate in your zoological discussion, both are a great miss I must say.

 

[Brum]

Yes indeed , although a quite recent member to this interesting and informative discussion group I have noticed that there has been a dramatic fall in posts in recent times, and a lot of what is now posted is not of the best quality. I must say that I personally very much enjoyed the writings of that well read member Animal Friendly and his colleague Jane Doe, reading their posts always cheered me up and often made my day, for some unexplained reason I observe that Animal Friendly has been banned off zoo chat, may I suggest that the reason zoo chat has declined in recent times is because it has lost its star performers? as I also note that Miss Doe no longer seams to participate in your zoological discussion, both are a great miss I must say.

Hahaha!

You're not fooling anyone, so go and troll another website!

 

[lintworm]

Others have already said that the (temporarily) decline is maybe just normal fluctuation or partly caused by facebook, although I must say that on a dutch zoo forum the decline is much steeper then it is on here, but that is also because zoochat has a rather broad base of enthusiasts...

What indeed does not help is the high amount of rubbish posts the last year or so and personally I would encourage that the zoochat team is a bit more strict with the rules and bans annoying people before they do to much damage... A certain person from the south lakes forum springs to mind. But I also cannot say that I value the tone in the Twycross forums... It is surprising how so few individuals can ruin the pleasure of so many people...

 

[Coelacanth18]

As a newer member who doesn't post often, but gets on every day, I thought I'd put in my two cents as well.

I'll admit that I'm young and relatively new to the ins and outs of the zoo world; I have nowhere near the knowledge about past collections and animal transfers as our older and more learned users have. I think there are countless fascinating species that are kept in zoological institutions throughout the world. There are many older threads, from at least a year ago or several years ago, that discuss species that are faring well, species that are not, the reasons behind those changes.... information that people who just visited Facebook and zoo websites would not be privy to. Unfortunately, those threads do not show up very often, and I find myself reading older threads on here most of the time because most newer threads that receive traffic are just zoo news reports. I believe these are essential, but where are the discussions? The scholarly debates? The exchanges of information?

For example, DavidBrown just posted a thread titled "Has any zoo successfully exhibited shrews?" Although my interests in fauna don't quite fall towards small rodents and insectivores, I gladly read what information was on the thread simply because it was unique: it wasn't information I could have so easily learned from somewhere else. Zoo news is important, but I'm not sure it should even be the bulk of what's on here. Zoochat's major selling point is that we can choose what to discuss, and we can actually discuss and debate the news rather than just transmitting it.

I'd be perfectly willing to start these kinds of threads if you guys 'n gals think they would receive a decent amount of traffic. But like I said, as a member who is far more likely to ask questions than to answer them, I'm not confident in my abilities to keep threads afloat on my own.

 

[Mr. Zootycoon]

I am relatively new on ZooChat, mostly because the Zoo Tycoon forums, where I used to talk about zoos, have become increasingly inactive.

I also noticed the lack of understanding about zoos in general. People all seem to believe anti-zoo people without trying to make up their own mind.
I can really get frustrated how some 'I read zoos are bad'-people are talking about zoos without actual experience of knowlegde about zoos. I can get angry with people who say
'I hate zoos so I've not visited one for thirty years' or something similar.
Those people wake up, post some anti-zoo messages on facebook or twitter, go on with their lives thinking they made a difference, thinking they actually helped the animals.

By the way, I have no problem with people who don't like zoos, I respect their opinion but only when they decided for themselfs.

 

[Brum]

As Benosaurus said, not everyone is obliged to start a thread! If you do decide to start a thread and no-one replies then so be it, don't take it to heart! If you start a thread that has already been discussed then someone, probably Chlidonias, will direct you to the appropriate thread!

I personally have spent the past few weeks reading a variety of old travel threads and zoo history threads even though I've read them before because sometimes there's little things you've forgotten.

If I'm honest though I'm waiting on Chlidonias Goes To Asia Part 4!

 

[OrangePerson]

I find it frustrating that the place to find out stuff is not Zoochat because people squirrel away information and/or don't want to upset zoos, so knowing people on Facebook becomes a better source of information.

 

[Jurek7]

Many people lose interest in zoos when they start traveling and seeing wild animals. Once you seen rainforest, these rainforest houses are no more interesting. Zoos are actually in a better position than most theme parks because they contain animals - they are real not fakes.

About lame posts on zoochat - I also noticed it. Maybe moderators should remind members - think whether what you are writing is interesting! Is it worth sharing with the whole world that an exhibit is renovated or a common animal arrived, died or was born? Is it interesting to discuss a topic from a zoo in three (or twenty) more posts with no new actual information from the zoo?

I am not sure if Facebook is better place to discuss. In my experience, it is 100% blablablah without information. Did it change recently?

 

[azcheetah2]

Like with any hobby, mine has its ebbs and flows. Just necause I'm not all ga-ga about something in particular right now doesn't mean I don't like it anymore. I was talking to a former supervisor one time about a horse event I wanted to attend in Kentucky and she said "Oh, so it's horses now?" I told her it's always been horses and she said she knew I liked "those light stick things" (lighthouses).

I would not have put myself in the category of Zoo Nerd until about 5 years ago although I used to visit my local one quite a bit when I was younger. I made a friend who was as much into Sea World as I was at the time and it turned out we both liked zoos as well so my zoo visits really ràmped up. Then we had a falling out and for awhile it just wasn't the same. Nowadays I haven't really been able to go on many trios because my 80 year old mother lives with us and I don't like leaving her alone for very long. I am hoping to visit the Orange County Zoo and Santa Ana Zoo in October and that will be new zoos to me.

As for Facebook vs Zoo Chat...none of my friends on FB are Zoo Nerds and I'm not a part of any discussion pages or whatever. I get the news from the zoo FB pages but when I want more details I look to Zoo Chatters for that.

 

[zooman]

Hi SL an interesting topic, like yourself my interest in zoos shows no sign of slowing down. To date a 40 year fantastic obsession that I am truly grateful to have.

I have had 5 distinct working careers and now in my 6th due mainly to getting bored whereas zoos and specifically gorillas in my experience are always evolving and interesting.

Often when a conversation comes around as to what people are interested in and I hear that many don't have at lest one thing in their lives that is guaranteed to make them smile and relax when pursuing I am reminded how lucky I am to love zoos

A quote from the movie "An officer and a gentleman" ( Richard Gear "Mayo" being told to leave the training academy by his drill Sargent "Foley" )

Foley: You can forget it! You're out!
Mayo: Don't you do it! Don't! You... I got nowhere else to go! I got nowhere else to g... I got nothin' else.

 

[Simon Hampel]

I've noticed a similar drop-off in ZooChat use. However, I'm one who used to post quite frequently but am practically unheard from anymore. Life gets busy. ZooChat is awkward to use on a cell phone and I'm rarely sitting at a computer anymore.

I would agree with this. The website is very difficult to use on a mobile device. With the migration away from computers to phones, and especially to programs with easy to use apps, ZooChat, and really all forum based communities, have been left behind.

I run several other very busy websites that have struggled with similar usability issues on mobile devices.

One of my main business clients over the past 8 years has been Australia's largest property investment discussion community, running on basically the same software that we run ZooChat on.

After 3 months of (failed) negotiation about migrating the site to new software, the owners decided to "archive" the old site (make it read-only) to avoid the ongoing costs of operating it.

In return, I was given the opportunity to start a brand new site (and business) for that community - which I have been working literally 18 hours a day, 7 days a week since the 2nd of June to make operational.

We launched on the 17th of June and have seen phenomenal growth since then.

One of the most common bits of feedback I get is how great the site and forum is to use on a mobile device or tablet!

I myself find myself browsing the site on my phone casually while waiting for other things - something I would never have done on the old site or on ZooChat.

I'm still flat out trying to get the new site fully operational, and I will have to go and get some additional work to help pay the bills for a while - but I do absolutely plan on migrating ZooChat to the same software as soon as I am able (although it will be a massive job due to all the customisations in ZooChat and the huge number of photos we have to deal with here too).

If you are interested in browsing my new site to see how well it works on a mobile device - you can find it here: http://propertychat.com.au/

 

[Chlidonias]

The solution? Moderators being more strict by deleting said childish insipid posts. That or create 'ZooChat Junior'.

ZooChat Junior would be good, or more PMs from the moderators offering friendly advice - at first. Maybe new joiners should not be posting for sixty days, hoping they would read and learn.

What indeed does not help is the high amount of rubbish posts the last year or so and personally I would encourage that the zoochat team is a bit more strict with the rules and bans annoying people before they do to much damage... A certain person from the south lakes forum springs to mind. But I also cannot say that I value the tone in the Twycross forums... It is surprising how so few individuals can ruin the pleasure of so many people...

With regards to the above three posts, it is a balancing act for moderators. When one is an ordinary member it is very easy to decide this post or that should be deleted, but when one becomes a moderator the situation turns all grey and murky rather than black and white. When posts are deleted or edited, people get all up in arms; when posts aren't deleted or edited, different people get all up in arms! If posts are to be deleted because they are "silly" or "childish" then where does the line get drawn? What one person thinks is insulting, others think is just harmless joshing. And so on. It is quite complicated when you're the ones having to actually make definite decisions on it.

Thinking about banning members because they are annoying is a slippery slope. Everyone is annoying at some point; I know I am. Some people never learn, but others do. Some do respond and learn from advice (including via pm's from moderators!), others simply ignore advice. We could probably all think of younger members who were irritating as hell when they first joined, and if they had been banned for being annoying they wouldn't have grown to be worthwhile members. On the converse there are those younger members who never learned anything. The point is one just doesn't know.

I don't personally like the idea of having a childrens' forum. I know other forum boards have them (and I think this site can have one activated) but my feeling is that then you would just have a bunch of young people talking nonsense amongst themselves, learning nothing and getting nowhere.

On the subject of adults disrupting the forums (everyone probably knows the culprits without names being mentioned), that's a higher issue than the moderators. We just make suggestions.

 

[Chlidonias]

I find it frustrating that the place to find out stuff is not Zoochat because people squirrel away information and/or don't want to upset zoos, so knowing people on Facebook becomes a better source of information.

aargh, yes I feel like that sometimes. It is quite common in some members, sort of an "I know something you don't know" attitude. The bit about "not wanting to upset zoos" is an interesting one too, and seems to occur only with specific zoos. I dislike it. The forum isn't SuckUpToZoosChat.