Lowland Gorillas in Europe 2015

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Sad news from Givskud, Denmark

Kipenzi, who had been separated from the group since December 2014 and a month ago was reunited with them, injured his little half-brother Amiri so severely that he had to be euthanised (article from September 14, in Danish).

While Givskud speaks of a "regrettable but natural behavior", other people question the EEP's and the zoo's judgment to place a 13 year-old immature silverback to lead a breeding group. Europe "uses way-too-young silverbacks a lot and I'm sure this contributed to the tragedy", said an insider on Facebook.

Kipenzi was 13 when he "killed" Amiri, Otana in Melbourne was 14 when he "killed" Julia, and Boumangou in Gabon was in his teens as well when, presumably, he killed up to six members of Djala's group. Which I think supports the doubt in the EEP's policy. Choosing Kipenzi was, at the very best, a risky experiment that went wrong. Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this issue!
 
Willard said:
Kipenzi other people question the EEP's and the zoo's judgment to place a 13 year-old immature silverback to lead a breeding group. Europe "uses way-too-young silverbacks a lot and I'm sure this contributed to the tragedy", said an insider on Facebook.
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Several ways of looking at this. One is that because Kipenzi grew up in this group one might not expect much trouble reintroducing him to familiar females after a nine(?) month seperation. On the other hand, and with Samson gone, he still needed to establish his dominance over them which is where the aggression comes in. From reading the article it seems the mother of the youngster that was attacked was more reluctant to accept him than the mother of the slightly older young one still in the group. So possibly this was redirected aggression?

Overall, IMO the older, more mature males (15+) are a better bet for such takeovers as they are more powerful, less volatile and mentally better prepared in this situation, but the problem is that in reality, the choice of male can be limited by which males are actually available. Which is better, a well-socialised 13 year old, or an older male that may have come from e.g. a bachelor group and not seen females or young for many years, or even never? Difficult to choose, and in each case the outcome can never be forecast.
 
that Kipenzi killed his halfbrother has nothing to do with his age. It is a natural behaviour. Although it is sad for the young male and the keepers, in species like geladas we see that there is after infanticide often a very strong band between the male and the mother that has lost its baby. People are often complaining that gorillas cannot have a normal natural life in zoos. What would have happened in the wild if a leader had died? Chances are huge that a male would have taken over the group and would have killed the baby. But many people obnly want to have the nice parts of natural life, not diseases or deaths.
That Otana badly injured a female, was probably due to the bad social behaviour of the female. If you want to question the age of males that are introduced in groups, then you should not base yourself on 2 cases, but on all cases that males were introduced, of all ages. Only then you can question a certain decision.
And are you sure that Guvskud followed the recommendations of the EEP when they introduced Kipenzi??
 
persimon said:
If you want to question the age of males that are introduced in groups, then you should not base yourself on 2 cases, but on all cases that males were introduced, of all ages. Only then you can question a certain decision.
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While I admit that I don't have sufficient data for my opinion, you didn't provide any for yours either - that Kipenzi killing his halfbrother has nothing to do with his age.

persimon said:
And are you sure that Guvskud followed the recommendations of the EEP when they introduced Kipenzi??
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No, I am not. I was addressing the prevalent practice within the EEP and, my fault, did not distinguish between the EEP as such and one of their zoos. However, Izumi Kondo - who usually is well informed - said on Facebook: "I heard the zoo asked the EEP's approval to place Kipenzi in the group. The EEP could have said no, and recommend other options."

persimon said:
People are often complaining that gorillas cannot have a normal natural life in zoos. What would have happened in the wild if a leader had died? Chances are huge that a male would have taken over the group and would have killed the baby. But many people only want to have the nice parts of natural life, not diseases or deaths.
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I don't think that's a conclusive argument, exactly because gorillas do NOT have a normal natural life in zoos. As my English isn't that good, allow me to quote Izumi again. She said (slightly edited by me), "Infanticide happens in nature but when a zoo puts a way too young male in a breeding group, 'it happens in nature' is no excuse because it's a man-made disaster. In the wild, females have the option to leave their group and usually immature males (like under 20) are not chosen by females to lead a group. Because zoo animals have only limited options and their lives are controlled by people, zoos are responsible to protect all animals under their care. EEP and SSP have had enough bad experiences from putting young male gorillas in breeding groups that ended up with babies and females injured and/or dead and that's why SSP no longer does that. EEP keeps using young males in breeding groups and they have terrible incidents like this still here and there. I think it's reasonable that we expect them to learn something from their experience."

I'm convinced that not being able to leave or join a group at their own will and by their own decision probably is the most severe restriction to a gorilla's life in captivity, and as we are the cause for this restriction it's our responsibility to be as careful as possible when making such a decision for them. It's not a question of allowing or avoiding the not-so-nice parts of natural life, but of acting in their interest while we keep them in captivity, and while it's upon us to decide for them. In that light, the incident was indeed "man-made", and I'm somewhat surprised that you refuse to see that aspect.
 
persimon said:
that Kipenzi killed his halfbrother has nothing to do with his age. It is a natural behaviour.

That Otana badly injured a female, was probably due to the bad social behaviour of the female.
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Kipenzi- Lets remember he didn't actually kill him, but he did injure him severely enough for euthanasia to be necessary. Apparently he also attacked ('biting in the buttocks') the slightly older juvenile in the group. As he knew these young ones from previously, I think the attacks were probably due to him having to work to establish dominance over their mothers- even though they knew him they may well have been reluctant to accept him as leader- perhaps age related, perhaps not and just the result of a new situation. Long established adult/older females(at least in zoos) frequently present a united 'front' against a new male(any age) until he can establish himself.

There have been many incidents like this with young males but as I said above, the choice of which males are actually suitable/available doesn't always allow for an older one to be used. Using Kipenzi in this instance was the easiest option and also solved the problem of what to do with him. Losing a young one in the process was an inevitable risk, but that is present when any new male, whatever age, arrives in a group with babies under three/four years old.

Otana at Melbourne I think was an entirely different issue. Female Julia was very humanised and may well have had real problems accepting a new male.

Boumango in Gabon- was he even really guilty of anything?:confused:
 
annebn said:
Actually, according to the Danish article, it is the other way around, it is the older juvenile who has been biting Kipenzi.
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Okay, thankyou. In the English translation it says bitten 'by' implying that it was Kipenzi doing the biting. If the other way round, I would think the youngster was probably trying to defend his mother (or possibly even playing?)
 
Frankfurt twins.

Diane has given birth to twins at Frankfurt on 15th September. Sexes not known yet. Father Viatu.
 
I am not convinced that Kipenzi`s age has anything to do with the death of the juvenile.

Is there any evidence - at least anectodical- that older silverbacks are less violent towards infants from the previous silverback during introductions? As far as I know, wild silverbacks kill usually all infants under the age of 2 when taking over a group, regardless how old and mature the silverback is. Usually the females choose to stay in the group regardless, because they need the leadership of an adult male.

Kipenzi had the huge advantage of knowing his younger siblings, so I`d say the assumption that he would pose less of a risk was reasonable.
 
Yassa said:
Kipenzi had the huge advantage of knowing his younger siblings, so I`d say the assumption that he would pose less of a risk was reasonable.
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I would agree with that. I think any attack was probably redirected aggression if the mother would not defer to him, as even though he had grown up in the group, a senior female might still not want to accept him as new leader.( they did imply this in the article).

Also that adult silverbacks can be equally guilty of infanticide which is after all effectively natural behaviour. I think the main difference is that younger males are sometimes less well received by established older females who regard them as upstarts, so there is more disharmony and the potential for more aggression as the male strives for dominance. But as I said, in zoos the choice of a new male can be limited by several other factors e.g genetic representation or social suitability so that a younger male may still prove the best choice sometimes- apart from his age that is.

Even places like Howletts with decades of experience still sometimes use quite young males to head groups e.g. recently with Ebeki, aged 11, and Matadi 12. However in Ebeki's case they deliberately waited severel years for the youngest offspring fathered by the previous male Kijo to grow to a 'safe' size before adding the new male, though I am not sure if Ebeki has yet been integrated fully into his new group. In Matadi's case there are no previous offspring involved.
 
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Kipenzi / Ebeki

Thanks for all your contributions! (Not wanting to sound like the moderator though :D) I always try to "broaden my horizon", read: hear other arguments and points of view. I agree with both Yassa and Pertinax who said:

"Kipenzi had the huge advantage of knowing his younger siblings, so I`d say the assumption that he would pose less of a risk was reasonable."

"Using Kipenzi in this instance was the easiest option and also solved the problem of what to do with him."

Nevertheless, as we had to see, there was a risk, and I'm still convinced that's mostly due to his age. But of course, when there's no "ideal" silverback available at the time given, a compromise is needed, and that's always a tough decision.

Pertinax said:
Even places like Howletts with decades of experience still sometimes use quite young males to head groups e.g. recently with Ebeki, aged 11, and Matadi 12. However in Ebeki's case they deliberately waited severel years [...] before adding the new male, though I am not sure if Ebeki has yet been integrated fully into his new group.
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A friend who recently was at Howletts reported that Ebeki "has nothing to say" in his group, with Dihi being the dominant gorilla at the moment. And he added that the group seems to be stable, at least for now. Which implicitly means that Ebeki has been fully integrated, but I'll ask him about that to be sure.
 
Willard said:
A friend who recently was at Howletts reported that Ebeki "has nothing to say" in his group, with Dihi being the dominant gorilla at the moment. And he added that the group seems to be stable, at least for now. Which implicitly means that Ebeki has been fully integrated, but I'll ask him about that to be sure.
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I'm not surprised to hear this(if correct and he is in fact now integrated)- three of the females in this group are in their thirties so unsurprising if they don't immediately accept a youthful male as their superior/leader. A similar situation to when back in the 80's 'Bitam' was given the original mature female group after Kisoro was sent back to USA. Aspinall Snr records the struggle he had to gain his dominance- it only came slowly, with age.
 
La Palmyre - female, Maisha (bFeb2008) arrived from Beauval last week
 
Basel- young female Adira aged 9 arrived from Rotterdam some days ago. She has already been integrated into the group and is even allowed to carry the baby daughter of older female Faddama, born in July. Rather unusual behaviour for an established older female to allow a strange young newcomer female to do this.

This move is the third transfer of young females to new groups in the last few weeks(to Bristol, La Palmyre and Basel)
 
Nisha said:
La Palmyre - female, Maisha (bFeb2008) arrived from Beauval last week
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This gives male 'Nyuki' three potential females in his group. Life has taken a big turn for the better for this handraised male- from a 'no-hoper' isolate male situation living with just his half brother 'Mike'- to (evidently) successfully fronting his own group. Hopefully he can breed also.
 
Givskud, Denmark

Female NILLE, born in the wild in 1964, died of old age on (or before) 2 November 2015.
 
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