Ah, so she could well be among the oldest alive at present.
This is a book I keep meaning to obtain; as ever, money is the key.
Dudley Zoological Gardens Dudley Zoological Gardens in 2015
- Thread starter Benosaurus
- Start date
Ah, so she could well be among the oldest alive at present.
This is a book I keep meaning to obtain; as ever, money is the key.
adrian1963
Well-Known Member
Anyone got the book and what is the correct name of the book please.
Would make great reading and as said before wonder if any of the records have been broken?
Would make great reading and as said before wonder if any of the records have been broken?
Yes, I have a copy:- it is called:-
Longevity of Mammals in Captivity; from the Living Collections of the World.
(ISBN 3-510-61379-1)
I have been told that the book's author, Richard Weigl, is working on a companion volume for birds although I don't know when that is scheduled for publication.
I wondered whether that might be the case. Typical - I always seem to time my visits to occur a couple of days before a new arrival goes on show
Five life-size steel sculptures have been installed on the approach to the new entrance.
Imposing artwork arrives! | Dudley Zoological Gardens
Imposing artwork arrives! | Dudley Zoological Gardens
More artwork
An animal mural has been created on the walls of the new car park.
Wild about our wall art! | Dudley Zoological Gardens
Personally, I like the recent improvements to the car park and entrance - I think it makes the approach to the Zoo much more welcoming and creates a good first impression.
An animal mural has been created on the walls of the new car park.
Wild about our wall art! | Dudley Zoological Gardens
Personally, I like the recent improvements to the car park and entrance - I think it makes the approach to the Zoo much more welcoming and creates a good first impression.
A new male Asian Lion is due to arrive very shortly - 12 year old, Jetpur will be coming from Mulhouse in France but was originally born at Dudley in 2003. He left for France in July 2005 and has sired 10 cubs with his mate, Sita since then... Hopefully he'll integrate well with Asha and Kyra
It's on the higher side for wild lions but in captivity they can get to their 20's. Males can breed up to 16 and a female once had a litter at 19.
Lion alert breeding page
I enjoyed a visit to Dudley yesterday. My previous one was so disappointing that I waited more than 20 years before returning.
It was nice to see so many of the Tecton buildings restored and I thought that the quality of the new exhibits was very good. There is still plenty of room for improvement, but things are obviously on the right course.
Dudley is unique among British zoos because it is set on a hill with a ruined mediaeval castle at the summit. I thought that the new Castle Creatures display used this setting imaginatively, and although the zoological content is limited, the strong historical context must give it extra appeal to children. When I watched the end of the bird of prey display in the castle courtyard, it occurred to me that falconry is a splendid and appropriate use for this green space (the castle ruins are Grade I listed buildings of course, so there is very little more they can do there). I like the way the zoo is playing to its strengths, and the revamped chairlift is another example of this: although I have no head for heights and you'd never get me to go up in one of those
I also liked the Monkey Tails exhibit, although I only glimpsed two titis and a saki, the space for larger reptiles was welcome and I forgave the second dose of meerkats
. The chimp exhibit is fine, although the outdoor area would benefit from some shrubbery - but it is weird to watch a group of chimps wandering around in total silence: I presume this is because the chimps are an all-female group, with no excitable males or exuberant youngsters. It just felt quite wrong to me.
My favourite exhibit was the lemur walk-through; very often these displays are quite bare with poor views of the lemurs, but Dudley's is lush and leafy with animals appearing and disappearing apparently quite unconcerned by the human visitors. I said to the keeper that I could hear the ring-tailed lemurs in the foliage, but I could only see the occasional tail or limb which was nice because it reminded me of looking for guenons in an African forest.
Some of the older exhibits are still good. It was nice to see the flock of Barbary sheep looking well in their old enclosure and the sea lions make a good show, as the bull is a very impressive animal. I like the reptile house and the penguins too. I think the birds are the weakest part of the collection, some of the aviaries look rather scruffy and the choice of species seems fairly random. It is obvious that a lot of thought and money has been put into the new entrance area, making a very good initial impression, which is diminished down by the first exhibit - a small pool with eight flamingos (of two different species) - time travel straight back to the '60s
Two final comments. I remember the old Ape House as it was 40 years ago and so I do know how much has been done to improve it, but I don't think it is up to standard for adult orangs now. It would be fine for macaques or mandrills, but I don't think there is enough space or stimulation for orangs. I know a new building would be expensive, but it would be my top priority. Linked to this, all the buildings and houses seemed very dark inside, it was very hard to see the orangs at all when they were inside. The same was true of the chimps, the dens of big cats and even Monkey Tails. Perhaps the dull weather made this seem worse than it was, or perhaps the Monsoon Forest has raised my expectations of what an indoor display can look like.
Alan
It was nice to see so many of the Tecton buildings restored and I thought that the quality of the new exhibits was very good. There is still plenty of room for improvement, but things are obviously on the right course.
Dudley is unique among British zoos because it is set on a hill with a ruined mediaeval castle at the summit. I thought that the new Castle Creatures display used this setting imaginatively, and although the zoological content is limited, the strong historical context must give it extra appeal to children. When I watched the end of the bird of prey display in the castle courtyard, it occurred to me that falconry is a splendid and appropriate use for this green space (the castle ruins are Grade I listed buildings of course, so there is very little more they can do there). I like the way the zoo is playing to its strengths, and the revamped chairlift is another example of this: although I have no head for heights and you'd never get me to go up in one of those
I also liked the Monkey Tails exhibit, although I only glimpsed two titis and a saki, the space for larger reptiles was welcome and I forgave the second dose of meerkats
. The chimp exhibit is fine, although the outdoor area would benefit from some shrubbery - but it is weird to watch a group of chimps wandering around in total silence: I presume this is because the chimps are an all-female group, with no excitable males or exuberant youngsters. It just felt quite wrong to me.My favourite exhibit was the lemur walk-through; very often these displays are quite bare with poor views of the lemurs, but Dudley's is lush and leafy with animals appearing and disappearing apparently quite unconcerned by the human visitors. I said to the keeper that I could hear the ring-tailed lemurs in the foliage, but I could only see the occasional tail or limb which was nice because it reminded me of looking for guenons in an African forest.
Some of the older exhibits are still good. It was nice to see the flock of Barbary sheep looking well in their old enclosure and the sea lions make a good show, as the bull is a very impressive animal. I like the reptile house and the penguins too. I think the birds are the weakest part of the collection, some of the aviaries look rather scruffy and the choice of species seems fairly random. It is obvious that a lot of thought and money has been put into the new entrance area, making a very good initial impression, which is diminished down by the first exhibit - a small pool with eight flamingos (of two different species) - time travel straight back to the '60s
Two final comments. I remember the old Ape House as it was 40 years ago and so I do know how much has been done to improve it, but I don't think it is up to standard for adult orangs now. It would be fine for macaques or mandrills, but I don't think there is enough space or stimulation for orangs. I know a new building would be expensive, but it would be my top priority. Linked to this, all the buildings and houses seemed very dark inside, it was very hard to see the orangs at all when they were inside. The same was true of the chimps, the dens of big cats and even Monkey Tails. Perhaps the dull weather made this seem worse than it was, or perhaps the Monsoon Forest has raised my expectations of what an indoor display can look like.
Alan
Very pleased you decided to visit after all those years GL and your review is bang on the money. I bet you barely recognised parts of the zoo. What prompted your sudden return and will you go back again?
I think the Meerkats in Monkey Tails (which is a bit of a mishmash, but perfectly pleasant) are two old males that are incompatible with the main group.
The chimp enclosure did contain lots of shrubs and two/three tall trees when it first opened. However, these were destroyed in no time, probably because back then the enclosure contained barely any climbing structures! Throughout the summer a large portion of the grass is left to grow over a metre tall and it's nice to watch them foraging amongst it. I'm guessing they're planning to go out of chimps eventually. I'd love to see gorillas at Dudley- even if it's just a bachelor group.
If you thought the lemur walkthrough was "lush and leafy" in late October then I wish you could see it at its peak in the height of summer. It's such an improvement from what was there before and I agree that it's now one of Dudley's best.
It is a shame that Dudley is still let down by some of its older exhibits; especially the orangs. However, it is important to remember that DZG is still in the middle of a huge improvement phase in its life and they're hurtling full steam ahead. The new director has already stated that they aim to improve the older, existing exhibits before looking at new ones. Won't stop me being critical though!
Glad you enjoyed your visit.
I think the Meerkats in Monkey Tails (which is a bit of a mishmash, but perfectly pleasant) are two old males that are incompatible with the main group.
The chimp enclosure did contain lots of shrubs and two/three tall trees when it first opened. However, these were destroyed in no time, probably because back then the enclosure contained barely any climbing structures! Throughout the summer a large portion of the grass is left to grow over a metre tall and it's nice to watch them foraging amongst it. I'm guessing they're planning to go out of chimps eventually. I'd love to see gorillas at Dudley- even if it's just a bachelor group.
If you thought the lemur walkthrough was "lush and leafy" in late October then I wish you could see it at its peak in the height of summer. It's such an improvement from what was there before and I agree that it's now one of Dudley's best.
It is a shame that Dudley is still let down by some of its older exhibits; especially the orangs. However, it is important to remember that DZG is still in the middle of a huge improvement phase in its life and they're hurtling full steam ahead. The new director has already stated that they aim to improve the older, existing exhibits before looking at new ones. Won't stop me being critical though!
Glad you enjoyed your visit.
While some older exhibits do let the zoo down, the lemur walkthrough isn't one of them, as it was a walkthrough for waterfowl before it's have plenty of time to mature.
It may just be because it's "my" zoo, but I think it's the best lemur walkthrough I've been too, with the right compromise between the needs of the animals and the needs of the public.
I'm not sure about Orangutans. I think it's adequate, but that it could stand to be a lot better. I have a hard time imagining the zoo without them though.
Once the chimps have passed away (probably a long way off) I expect their enclosure could be adapted for orangs. You could probably make the indoor house taller and add upstairs viewing. The area past the red squirrels could be used to build some kind of elevated viewing platform on and the paddock could have more climbing frames added, maybe even live trees.
Or perhaps one day where the chimps are now could become home to giraffes (and maybe other African hoofstock) with the orangutan moving to where the giraffes are now. Obviously with slight modifications to the enclosures, I believe giraffes need sturdier climbing frames.
The Ape tecton could then be used for smaller primates or it could be "decommissioned", opened up to the public and used as a museum/play area.
It may just be because it's "my" zoo, but I think it's the best lemur walkthrough I've been too, with the right compromise between the needs of the animals and the needs of the public.
I'm not sure about Orangutans. I think it's adequate, but that it could stand to be a lot better. I have a hard time imagining the zoo without them though.
Once the chimps have passed away (probably a long way off) I expect their enclosure could be adapted for orangs. You could probably make the indoor house taller and add upstairs viewing. The area past the red squirrels could be used to build some kind of elevated viewing platform on and the paddock could have more climbing frames added, maybe even live trees.
Or perhaps one day where the chimps are now could become home to giraffes (and maybe other African hoofstock) with the orangutan moving to where the giraffes are now. Obviously with slight modifications to the enclosures, I believe giraffes need sturdier climbing frames.
The Ape tecton could then be used for smaller primates or it could be "decommissioned", opened up to the public and used as a museum/play area.
Whilst I'm not sure it's THE best, it is definitely one of the best in the UK and far better than the "will this do" waterfowl exhibit that was there before. Additionally, I think the costs of the renovation were peanuts.
I've got to disagree with this, I don't think the enclosure is adequate and it's probably the worst in the UK (though Twycross runs it close). That said I think that the staff have managed to improve it as far as realistically possible given their constraints.You hit the dilemma on the nose with the second sentence -you (and many others I'm sure) class them as a desired permanent fixture of the zoo and because of this, I fear, the zoo won't go out of the animals. Personally I like GL's idea of replacing them with Mandrills.
I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with the safety aspects of converting an enclosure for aged female Chimps into one that's escape-proof for Orangs -I think they might be better off starting from scratch (and it might prove cheaper than converting an existing building and/or enclosure).
I'm not sure the Ape is Tecton, I'm sure it's too late to be and isn't, in itself, subject to a preservation order.
The above might sound like I'm particularly critical of Dudley but I'm not. Orang accommodation (and possibly Sea Lion enclosure) aside I think they've done a great job pulling themselves up by their bootstraps over the last decade and a half and (again Orang enclosure aside) I always enjoy my visits there.
adrian1963
Well-Known Member
Must agree with you here as a bird lover I find Not just Dudley but most public collections a let down on how they display the bird species they have.
With most collection Dudley seem to fall into the lets fill the exhibit up with shrubs and plants then lets forget them, Most UK bird exhibits in general are to small and over crowded with plants thus this means the birds don't get to have too much time or space to fly around.
Then you have the walk through bird exhibits which in my honest views are much better for bird species.
The history of Dudley's chimps since the 1960's has been rather erratic. Initially a group of 1.3 young ones were kept in the(then) newly built Ape House along with the pairs of the Gorillas and Orangutans. There was some breeding (e.g. the old Whipsnade female Koko is Dudley-bred.) One of the females (Cindy) died,(drowned?). Later on the other two females (Bella & Cherry), by now in advancing years were exchanged with London's larger group of 8 or 9 females, which were overcrowded in London. They went into the current accomodation with the original male of Dudley's group (and Zoo favourite) Pepe. The aim at Dudley then was presumably to allow breeding(?) and form an even larger group. But Pepe unfortunately died before any breeding happened (as the only male he seemed intimidated and outnumbered by this strong clan of females- did they later actually kill him...?) and since then it has remained a female group only. There has been talk of getting more males at times, but still nothing has happened. I have heard more than once on here that the fences are considered unsafe for powerful males.
Some of these Chimps are likely to live some long time yet. My preferred option would be for the Zoo to move them out if they are never going to keep males and a proper social group- but finding new homes might be very difficult -and perhaps upgrade the enclosure and then maybe have male Gorillas instead. Then with Gorillas at the Zoo again, the Orangutans might seem less important to keep and so expendable and could be dispersed elsewhere, thus solving their poor housing issue- unless they really are prepared to build a completely new house for them. This is what Bristol (and later London) did, reducing from three Ape species to just the most major draw-Gorillas. There is nothing wrong with keeping the several species- provided all their needs both socially and environment wise, can be met, but which I don't think is the case at Dudley.
The 1960's house I think should just be completely demolished. It will never look like anything but an ugly and out of date Ape building, whatever was kept in it.
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adrian1963
Well-Known Member
In the past it was an idea to move the Orang's to an area just past the chimps which is now closed off but cost was a major factor in the end.
The chimps should be moved on as they are no longer a major attraction at the zoo, I have been to the zoo on many visits and have hardly seen any people down there unless they are going with the children to monkey tails.
This area could then be used for Giraffe/Zebra/Antelope mix, the giraffe exhibit could then be used for the Capybara/Mara/Parma wallaby mix this then allowing the Tapirs a much better enclosure.
The orangs could do with a better enclosure but if they were to fill in the watered area (it's not the moat for the castle) and increase the outdoor exhibit right up to the fence at the top then I feel this would be a much better idea than moving them.
The chimps should be moved on as they are no longer a major attraction at the zoo, I have been to the zoo on many visits and have hardly seen any people down there unless they are going with the children to monkey tails.
This area could then be used for Giraffe/Zebra/Antelope mix, the giraffe exhibit could then be used for the Capybara/Mara/Parma wallaby mix this then allowing the Tapirs a much better enclosure.
The orangs could do with a better enclosure but if they were to fill in the watered area (it's not the moat for the castle) and increase the outdoor exhibit right up to the fence at the top then I feel this would be a much better idea than moving them.
That's another option that's been mentioned here before. Giving them more landspace and closer viewing for visitors. Another improvement would be covering the top and front with mesh and viewing windows. Thus making the outdoors into a large 'cage' but giving them about ten times more climbing opportunity and usage of the whole area. But overall it would still be the same antiquated/unsuitable house...