ZSL Whipsnade Zoo ZSL Whipsnade Zoo 2015

[IanRRobinson]

Considering how badly the north side of the zoo has - for all intents and purposes - been left to rot in recent years, lord only knows......

The original plan was that the dogs would go and the Bongo would go back to London. As the latter really don't use their paddock at Whipsnade to full effect, that wouldn't be such a bad thing, but it would leave the RP carnivore list looking even more forlorn.

 

[Panthera1981]

Before things start going around in circles, I just was wondering when is work supposed to begin on the new Elephant barn/house at Whipsnade?

Anytime now for approx September 2016 completion.

 

[ajmcwhipsnade]

Anytime now for approx September 2016 completion.

Ah ok great, for some reason I thought it was early November. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like.

Would be sad to see the Bongo's leave, they are my favourite species of Antelope.

 

[Pertinax]

Lets not forget that the main reason why Impala, Blesbok, Thommies have returned was down to visitors complaining about the number of empty paddocks. I doubt anyone at the top had the inclination to pursue this idea until ZSL's hand was forced when they looked at the gate receipts/feedback.

In my naivety I'd assumed a decision had been made to actively bolster the collection with additional species. Not that they were simply the result of public influences.

 

[Panthera1981]

Back on the subject of canids, is it only the Aspinall collections that hold dhole in the UK?

And, should the hunting dogs transfer, what about jackal, bat-eared fox or aardwolf as replacements?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Back on the subject of canids, is it only the Aspinall collections that hold dhole in the UK?

And, should the hunting dogs transfer, what about jackal, bat-eared fox or aardwolf as replacements?

Dhole are also on display at West Mids and Twycross.

As for your suggestions, I suspect Bat-eared Fox would be deemed too small and unimpressive to replace the wolves, with Aardwolf much the same - and also a lot harder to obtain. More's the pity, as I am rather fond of Aardwolf and would love more collections to go into the species.

This leaves Jackal, which I feel would be a great addition, especially if it were Golden Jackal that was obtained - this taxon has not been held in the UK for many years, having last been displayed at Chester Zoo in 1968. The other option - Black-backed Jackal - is being actively phased out within Europe at present. The few remaining individuals in the UK (at Colchester and Hamerton) are geriatric and seldom visible.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Dhole are also on display at West Mids and Twycross.

As for your suggestions, I suspect Bat-eared Fox would be deemed too small and unimpressive to replace the wolves, with Aardwolf much the same - and also a lot harder to obtain. More's the pity, as I am rather fond of Aardwolf and would love more collections to go into the species.

This leaves Jackal, which I feel would be a great addition, especially if it were Golden Jackal that was obtained - this taxon has not been held in the UK for many years, having last been displayed at Chester Zoo in 1968. The other option - Black-backed Jackal - is being actively phased out within Europe at present. The few remaining individuals in the UK (at Colchester and Hamerton) are geriatric and seldom visible.

Going off at a tangent, somebody really needs to go through the Wolf / Golden Jackal complex to review the taxonomy. I feel sure that both are hiding canids in North Africa and the Middle East that could do with captive breeding. And that's without mentioning Ethiopian Wolf.

 

[Panthera1981]

The demise of the wolves highlights some other pressing issues concerning stock that the zoo will have to address in the next few (five?) years:

Wolves:
Pack now deceased. Possible replacements: African hunting dog.

African lion:
Ageing pride, non-breeding. Senior, vasectomised male and 2 senior females. 3 castrated male cubs, 1 contraceptive implant(?) female cub.

Chimps:
Non-breeding group, being "bred to extinction." Rumoured replacements: Gelada or Orang.

Brown bear:
Non-breeding all-female group, 2 middle-aged and 1 senior. Rumoured replacements: Snow leopard.

Sloth bear:
Non-breeding family group,mother and 1.1 offspring. Sri-Lankan variant so unlikely to replace as this variant is not represented in other european collections.

 

[pipaluk]

The demise of the wolves highlights some other pressing issues concerning stock that the zoo will have to address in the next few (five?) years:

Wolves:
Pack now deceased. Possible replacements: African hunting dog.

African lion:
Ageing pride, non-breeding. Senior, vasectomised male and 2 senior females. 3 castrated male cubs, 1 contraceptive implant(?) female cub.

Chimps:
Non-breeding group, being "bred to extinction." Rumoured replacements: Gelada or Orang.

Brown bear:
Non-breeding all-female group, 2 middle-aged and 1 senior. Rumoured replacements: Snow leopard.

Sloth bear:
Non-breeding family group,mother and 1.1 offspring. Sri-Lankan variant so unlikely to replace as this variant is not represented in other european collections.

Why does a zoo the size of Whipsnade have to replace any species in order to bring in New species?
I would love to see snow leopards there, BUT not as a replacement for the Brown bears! Whipsnade without any bears just wouldn't be the same, they need more bear species, not less!

I suspect the younger Sloth Bears may be around longer than 5 years though.

Replacing the chimps with orangs wouldn't be so bad but they will need somewhere to take them, they won't all die in one go like the wolves. Gelada could go elsewhere in the zoo relatively cheaply.

Lions, once they start to die off, they may find somewhere to take those remaining or they will have the current Asiatic Lion holding area to utilise.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Sloth bear:
Non-breeding family group,mother and 1.1 offspring. Sri-Lankan variant so unlikely to replace as this variant is not represented in other european collections.

Of course, if they had not chosen the rather short-sighted option of having both young bears sterilised, they would have had the option of exporting one of the young to the USA, and importing a new individual to pair the remaining youngster off with - or indeed importing two new individuals to pair both off!

As I understand it, this option was not even looked at

 

[IanRRobinson]

The demise of the wolves highlights some other pressing issues concerning stock that the zoo will have to address in the next few (five?) years:

Wolves:
Pack now deceased. Possible replacements: African hunting dog.

African lion:
Ageing pride, non-breeding. Senior, vasectomised male and 2 senior females. 3 castrated male cubs, 1 contraceptive implant(?) female cub.

Chimps:
Non-breeding group, being "bred to extinction." Rumoured replacements: Gelada or Orang.

Brown bear:
Non-breeding all-female group, 2 middle-aged and 1 senior. Rumoured replacements: Snow leopard.

Sloth bear:
Non-breeding family group,mother and 1.1 offspring. Sri-Lankan variant so unlikely to replace as this variant is not represented in other european collections.

Those who know Whipsnade might JUST possibly wonder at the idea, that of all the large carnivores under the sun, its management seriously contemplates Snow Leopard for probably the densest wood in the park.

I really do try, but this list makes me weep. There was never any long-term plan when the African Lions were installed, ZSL simply wanted to highlight its canivore conservation work in Tanzania. Spotted Hyena would have been more unusual and Hunting Dogs would have had conservation value.

I agree with Pipaluk's and TLD's comments about the Chimps and the Sloth Bears. For my money, I would look to have a pedigree group of Chimps; Edinburgh are slowly grafting one into their existing setup, so it can be done.

Just one final thought. I'd suggest that Whipsnade, well managed, had space for the following large carnivores (my choices!): Cheetah, Clouded, Snow and Amur Leopards, Siberian Tiger, Asiatic Lion, Striped Hyena, European Grey Wolf, Hunting Dog, Dhole, Maned Wolf, and Andean, European Brown, Polar and Sloth Bears.

 

[Panthera1981]

There was never any long-term plan when the African Lions were installed, ZSL simply wanted to highlight its canivore conservation work in Tanzania.

They're evidently not doing a good job then-the displays and info all date back to 2003-2006! Seriously, take a look on the next visit!And all this mixed in with Asian lion donation info.

The list should also note the continued Cloisters overhaul (Inverts/Aquatics) and possible part-pedestrianisation of the drive-thru section of Passage thru Asia.

 

[ajmcwhipsnade]

Just was thinking, is highlighting conservation work a bad thing?

That sounds interesting, possibly making part of the passage thru asia a walk through bit?

 

[IanRRobinson]

Just was thinking, is highlighting conservation work a bad thing ?

Sorry, but you don't bring in expensive large mammals to make a point for a dozen years. A pride of lions that is for exhibit purposes only and lacking a pride male - as Whipsnade's soon will be - is a contradiction in terms.

In any case, as Panthera has pointed out, the information is a dozen years out of date.

 

[Pertinax]

Dhole are also on display at West Mids and Twycross.

Twycross used to have five, now there are only two(or is it one?) I can see them going the same way as the Hyaenas there.

 

[Pertinax]

Why does a zoo the size of Whipsnade have to replace any species in order to bring in New species?
I would love to see snow leopards there, BUT not as a replacement for the Brown bears! spect the younger Sloth Bears may be around longer than 5 years though.

Replacing the chimps with orangs wouldn't be so bad but they will need somewhere to take them, they won't all die in one go like the wolves. Gelada could go elsewhere in the zoo relatively cheaply.

Answer; because with the larger carnivores( with the exception of Lion/Tiger maybe) they nowadays seem to not want to duplicate (so-called) similar-looking species etc. Reason? Economy of building enclosures/ feeding costs maybe? I agree that potentially they could house a huge range.

I think they would be better off retaining the Chimps and going down the 'purebred infusion' route. They are nearly always a more active display than Orangutans and can be kept in a bigger grouping too. Plus they are already there.

Geladas could go on the colder scarp slope somewhere, there is masses of room to build a large fenced enclosure for them. This is the area where Snow Leopard should be housed too, if they ever return. If the Brown bears die out, another species( or even more Browns) of Bear should definately replace them so that Whipsnade do not lose Bears( I don't really count Sloth Bears as they are such odd creatures!) though they will no doubt see the Sloth Bears as sufficient to represent the Bear family.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Answer; because with the larger carnivores( with the exception of Lion/Tiger maybe) they nowadays seem to not want to duplicate (so-called) similar-looking species etc. Reason? Economy of building enclosures/ feeding costs maybe? I agree that potentially they could house a huge range.

Geladas could go on the colder scarp slope somewhere, there is masses of room to build a large fenced enclosure for them. This is the area where Snow Leopard should be housed too, if they ever return. If the Brown bears die out, another species( or even more Browns) of Bear should definately replace them so that Whipsnade do not lose Bears( I don't really count Sloth Bears as they are such odd creatures!) though they will no doubt see the Sloth Bears as sufficient to represent the Bear family.

When apparently intelligent people repeatedly fail to do something that would be obviously beneficial I fear that the explanation is that they're not interested. If a serious scientific zoo can't summon up the desire to show a wider range of species when it has the space and the money (look at the cost of Land of the Lions!) I think something's gone wrong.

It's not just carnivores; I suspect that the mundane marketing attitude of "that box is ticked already" militates against getting back Eastern Black Rhino, no matter that a) the proprietor of Port Lympne appears to be going through a very severe midlife crisis b) Chester has probably reached capacity for holding the species and c) there are only 600 left in the wild.

 

[ajmcwhipsnade]

I just feel that highlighting the work they do abroad is no bad thing, I know your not saying that exactly but having African Lions when they do great work in Africa seems a no brainer to be honest, and at least they have bred in the past.

I really doubt the fact is they are not interested, far from it. I don't think a zoo should just be a place that displays animals, but one that does conservation work in the zoo and abroad. Maybe I don't explain myself well enough, just I don't think it makes Whipsnade a worse zoo just because it does not display loads more species. Since I started going to the Zoo it has bred Elephants, Tigers, Hippos, Rhinos, Lions, Cheetahs to name a few, and by supporting the captive breeding populations of species that are endangered or just threatened is just as important.

 

[Pertinax]

Just I don't think it makes Whipsnade a worse zoo just because it does not display loads more species.

I think the critisisms relate to the fact Whipsnade used to exhibit a greater variety of species than they do nowadays, as of course did London Zoo itself. The potential and space is there to return to something like its heyday in past decades, when the collection was much more diverse than it is now, but there is no sign of its likehood. It just seems the 'modern Whipsnade' is always going to be more economical on species' variety than it used to be, which is a great shame.

 

[FunkyGibbon]

Those who know Whipsnade might JUST possibly wonder at the idea, that of all the large carnivores under the sun, its management seriously contemplates Snow Leopard for probably the densest wood in the park.

I really do try, but this list makes me weep. There was never any long-term plan when the African Lions were installed, ZSL simply wanted to highlight its canivore conservation work in Tanzania. Spotted Hyena would have been more unusual and Hunting Dogs would have had conservation value.

I agree with Pipaluk's and TLD's comments about the Chimps and the Sloth Bears. For my money, I would look to have a pedigree group of Chimps; Edinburgh are slowly grafting one into their existing setup, so it can be done.

Just one final thought. I'd suggest that Whipsnade, well managed, had space for the following large carnivores (my choices!): Cheetah, Clouded, Snow and Amur Leopards, Siberian Tiger, Asiatic Lion, Striped Hyena, European Grey Wolf, Hunting Dog, Dhole, Maned Wolf, and Andean, European Brown, Polar and Sloth Bears.

I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, because I'm sure your suggestion could be implemented in an excellent way, but I think part of Whipsnade's charm is its park-land feel. The woods and spaces between enclosures are for me a defining feature of the place. If these spaces were replaced with enclosures then it might well be an excellent/better zoo, but I can't help feeling it would lose something else in the process.

That being said, my opinion is based on one visit this year and perhaps you and others remember a larger collection in years gone by. You also make some brilliant points about Black rhino. Whipsnade should absolutely add several 'zoo-flagship' species where captive breeding really could be the difference between extinction and not. Amur leopard etc.

The other thing I'd like to see, and to be honest I think is a necessity, is new housing for the Sea lions and Common hippos.