South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes to Close to the Public

[bigcat speciali]

From the beginning of December - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 at 9:53PM
Disputes set to continue over zoo entrance chaos. Last modified Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 7:47AM
Disputes set to continue over zoo entrance chaos

 

[Sand Cat]

Interestingly, there is nothing on the South Lakes website about this news - and a few people on other websites claim to have rung the zoo today and been told it is NOT closing for good and that the media have taken it out of all proportion... what is actually going on here? Also seems crazy to blame the media when they have posted such dramatic statements on their own Facebook pages for all to see!

Reading the links provided, the Council seem to be doing their job - identifying issues and telling the zoo to correct them. In such cases I think its pretty stupid to pick fights and say they are being victimised - whether you agree with the rules or not, 'rules is rules' and must be followed!

As an aside, did anyone see that David Gill had posted on his own Facebook page that he hopes for a peaceful Christmas as it may be his last? Apparently all the stress is making him seriously ill!

 

[SHAVINGTONZOO]

I remain no fan of David Gill's antics, nor do I relate much to his autobio. But having said that he ... (in his defence - let me be the Devil's advocate here ...) does have somethings going for him too.

Further, I cannot help but agree that there are more than real elements of truth in what has now been posted on the SLWAP website regarding the Council's relationship with SLWAP. It is a very political agenda on the part of Council and one which is I am sad to say also based around egos that are willing and deem themselves able to drive thru their own version / will / vision over any other. In that, they do not serve the local community at large, nor do they do the local zoo, the animal collection and their staff full justice.

Do you have any evidence to support this accusation? And can you suggest why the local authority would wish to do this?

For what it is worth: to me Barrow County Council constitutes one of those renegade lots that are damn well hard trying to change management at SLWAP into their favor while only paying lipservice to improve management and acknowledge there is a zoo on site that has a more than regional importance and value.

How would changing the management be to the "favour" of the Council? And in what way are the Council's demands - to keep staff safe, to prevent escapes, to maintain visitor safety - paying "lip service" to improving management?

Whatever their antics ... this wildlife park is an active and accepted member of both EAZA and BIAZA and thus seems to fullfill their minimum criteria in zoo management, animal husbandry and zoo association and judicial requirements. It also does its fair bit to support in situ field conservation activitities (something certainly not all zoos are prone to do).

Fair points.

Effectively, by stepping down from a directorial seat David Gill has already opened the way forward to the current management to do what should be done.

As the 100% shareholder he would remain in control. He who pays the piper calls the tune as the manager of Chelsea FC has found out this week.

It would be a real baddo if the zoo were to close and in no way does that justice to SLWAP and the fact that BCC cannot and should not mess with that at all.

Barrow Council has every right to "mess" with the Zoo. It is the Licensing Authority and therefore has an obligation to supervise the licensing process - unless you want to go back to the 60s when any clown could open a zoo. (Word carefully chosen)

So for what it is worth, let Barrow County Council do whatever they need to do (by Law and by that only .....) and let the zoo operate (as per the Law and by that only ...), while respecting each other's area of operation and judicial and formal responsibilities and acknowledging both are there to stay and remain.

If the Council - which, incidentally, I think is a Borough Council rather than a County Council - has acted beyond its powers then Gill could take appropriate legal action. Which he hasn't done.

Comments in red.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Effectively, by stepping down from a directorial seat David Gill has already opened the way forward to the current management to do what should be done.

As the 100% shareholder he would remain in control. He who pays the piper calls the tune as the manager of Chelsea FC has found out this week.

Not only that, it is worth noting that according to the council documents posted onto this thread, Gill is actually the co-director again as of the start of this month - and the other director is his current wife!

 

[SHAVINGTONZOO]

Not only that, it is worth noting that according to the council documents posted onto this thread, Gill is actually the co-director again as of the start of this month - and the other director is his current wife!

Ponder:

A company is 100% owned by one person.

The company has, in recent times, had either one or two Directors.

The three most recent Directors have been:
the owner
the owner's wife
an employee

And this company then claims to have created a management structure to take the business forward and wants the licence transferring out of the owner's name.

I have been a company director in the past. Never in a structure like that!

 

[swampy1967]

... this wildlife park is an active and accepted member of both EAZA and BIAZA and thus seems to fullfill their minimum criteria in zoo management, animal husbandry and zoo association and judicial requirements. It also does its fair bit to support in situ field conservation activitities (something certainly not all zoos are prone to do).

Not trying to prove anyone wrong, only to clear my own confusion, but is the Safari Zoo in BIAZA ?? i can't see them listen as members here

BIAZA Zoos and Aquariums - Biaza

or is it something they have to do but dont need to advertise....??

if true its the only zoo i know who isn't in BIAZA...

thanks.

 

[tetrapod]

... this wildlife park is an active and accepted member of both EAZA and BIAZA and thus seems to fullfill their minimum criteria in zoo management, animal husbandry and zoo association and judicial requirements. It also does its fair bit to support in situ field conservation activitities (something certainly not all zoos are prone to do).

Not trying to prove anyone wrong, only to clear my own confusion, but is the Safari Zoo in BIAZA ?? i can't see them listen as members here

BIAZA Zoos and Aquariums - Biaza

or is it something they have to do but dont need to advertise....??

if true its the only zoo i know who isn't in BIAZA...

thanks.

South Lakes is not a member of BIAZA, although they were previously. There are a couple of other collections which aren't members - Cotswold and Hamerton spring to mind. I believe that arguments about selling stock and dealing with private holders had something to do with it.

Other points:
The whole exercise of 'shutting down' reminds me of a shop with a 'closing down' sale sign to sell off old stock.

I really do not understand why anybody would maintain a heap of used straw and faecal matter inside an enclosure??? Surely from a purely aesthetic point of view, let alone hygienic one, it would be moved outside the enclosure perimeter. Very odd behaviour.

I don't wish to add to the ongoing commentry of David Gill, his relationship with the council and his overall management of South Lakes, but if anybody thinks he is not in charge of the management of the zoo than you must be off your rocker.

 

[SHAVINGTONZOO]

I really do not understand why anybody would maintain a heap of used straw and faecal matter inside an enclosure??? Surely from a purely aesthetic point of view, let alone hygienic one, it would be moved outside the enclosure perimeter. Very odd behaviour.

Interestingly the Council report gives 3 reasons for wanting the muckheap moved/removed:

1. animal welfare
2. risk of pollution to watercourse
3. risk of baboon escape

Curiously all the attention seems to be on 3

 

[Maguari]

Just read this on a comment on an Evening Mail article



So, simply a social media coo by the zoo to rally everyone against the council - I suspect the closure is to move large animals around the zoo, rhino, giraffe etc - as this was always planned for spring 2016

Interestingly, there is nothing on the South Lakes website about this news - and a few people on other websites claim to have rung the zoo today and been told it is NOT closing for good and that the media have taken it out of all proportion... what is actually going on here? Also seems crazy to blame the media when they have posted such dramatic statements on their own Facebook pages for all to see!

Reading the links provided, the Council seem to be doing their job - identifying issues and telling the zoo to correct them. In such cases I think its pretty stupid to pick fights and say they are being victimised - whether you agree with the rules or not, 'rules is rules' and must be followed!

Yes indeed - it's a bit rich (if not downright deceitful) to say it's been 'blown out of proportion by the media' when you've actually announced it yourself on your own social media page in no uncertain terms.

I really do think Mr. Gill ought to be giving serious thought to stepping back, for the good of everyone - the zoo, its animals and employees and indeed himself.

 

[bigcat speciali]

Council responds to Dalton zoo 'harassment' comments

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/News/Barro...ments-b3d6869d-db9f-4b89-a01c-21a449fc7591-ds

 

[bigcat speciali]

Dave Gill on his high horse

End of Day Update for our supporters and customers.

The Management Team have spent all day working hard for a resolution to the issues that need to be discussed. We have made several attempts today to sit down with Barrow Borough Council, despite no response at all from the Chief Executive or any other Director as of yet.

The Structural Engineers are pulling out the stops for us now and will be on site Sunday and Monday now that Barrow Borough Council have finally today provided some of the information needed to deliver and finalise the report on the specified wooden walkways.

Thank you for your amazing support we fight on as a team together with you and we take all our responsibilities very seriously as we always have.
We ask for patience from everyone until we can get answers as to why you the public and the councillors themselves are being mislead by the Officers and Leaders of the Environmental Health Department.

The whole staff attended a meeting this morning with the Senior Management team and were informed about their employment situation.
The owners and directors have been fully briefed on all that was said in the meeting and what has been done here on Facebook along with the developments from the people all working to assist us with this situation . We the Management are passionately doing our best to get a positive change of approach to the future from the Council so we can enjoy our lives once again and end the fear and worry that surrounds every employee in the Zoo.

We are open fully in every way each day throughout the holidays , (except 25th ) every event is on and every animal is waiting to greet you....

despite misleading information ALL the park is open and safe.
So come on down , feed a reindeer, feed giraffes , See Santa , take part in the Nativity and take a road train ride, a Steam train ride and skating , bouncy castle all for just £6. Because ENTRY to everyone who gets a wristband is absolutely FREE.

Don't forget we have great value hot meals all day long and Christmas lunches for Adults and Kids...

We the Management and Staff on behalf of the Owner and Directors wish you all a Very Merry Christmas !!

and thank you for the simply amazing positive support.
https://www.change.org/p/david-gill-barrow-council-save-sou…

 

[bigcat speciali]

So, he is in denial that he has very little to do with the zoo? and reading between the lines, he says he will no longer be the "operator"?

Thank you for all the messages of support. As my friends know I have little to do with the running of the zoo and these are my last few days of being the operator. I plan to spend my retirement a long way from this kind of politics and spend what is left of my life working hard to give help and assistance to those on our planet that have absolutely nothing but....smiles and love... but hey that is actually all you do need !
Love is about giving, sharing putting others first and doing your best to respect and honour our neighbours.
Christmas is all about Love. God has his plans and we have to trust in this .
Despite the accusations of a few my resolve to continue the mission I am so passionate about has not waivered. Merry Christmas to all.

 

[Chlidonias]

Council responds to Dalton zoo 'harassment' comments
Disputes set to continue over zoo entrance chaos

this is the same link from December 1st which you posted earlier?

 

[Chlidonias]

No, what I have just posted is an update from the newspaper which has stated the update - Friday, December 18, 2015 at 5:40PM
Council responds to Dalton zoo 'harassment' comments. Last modified Friday, December 18, 2015 at 5:40PM

the two links are exactly the same.

Text from the link in post #21: Disputes set to continue over zoo entrance chaos

DISPUTES are set to continue as the new entrance to a major tourist attraction remains unresolved.

Barrow Borough Council’s planning committee met yesterday afternoon to review the marshalling plan for the new entrance of South Lakes Safari Zoo.

Residents have spoken out in anger after experiencing months of queuing traffic and numerous health and safety problems.

Insufficient parking spaces has resulted in cars queuing down the U6097 and onto the A590, resulting in many people abandoning their vehicles in the road and completing the journey to the zoo on foot.

This has left residents unable to access their own properties or enjoy the privacy of their own homes.

One Melton Terrace resident, Angela Butcher, said: “One resident, who is disabled, had a hospital appointment and when he came back he couldn’t get access into his own home.”

Some residents have also reported seeing visitors using the gutters outside the homes of Melton Terrace as a toilet, with one man urinating in a garden.

The planning committee has decided to defer the decision to discharge the condition and will seek further advice and consultation with Cumbria County Council to alleviate the problem.
Last modified Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 7:47AM

Text from the link in post #30: Disputes set to continue over zoo entrance chaos

DISPUTES are set to continue as the new entrance to a major tourist attraction remains unresolved.

Barrow Borough Council’s planning committee met yesterday afternoon to review the marshalling plan for the new entrance of South Lakes Safari Zoo.

Residents have spoken out in anger after experiencing months of queuing traffic and numerous health and safety problems.

Insufficient parking spaces has resulted in cars queuing down the U6097 and onto the A590, resulting in many people abandoning their vehicles in the road and completing the journey to the zoo on foot.

This has left residents unable to access their own properties or enjoy the privacy of their own homes.

One Melton Terrace resident, Angela Butcher, said: “One resident, who is disabled, had a hospital appointment and when he came back he couldn’t get access into his own home.”

Some residents have also reported seeing visitors using the gutters outside the homes of Melton Terrace as a toilet, with one man urinating in a garden.

The planning committee has decided to defer the decision to discharge the condition and will seek further advice and consultation with Cumbria County Council to alleviate the problem.
Last modified Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 7:47AM

 

[Chlidonias]

I have found the article which I think you meant to link to: Council responds to Dalton zoo 'harassment' comments

A statement was issued after Barrow Borough Council ruled all wooden public walkways must be shut with immediate effect due to concerns about safety.

The decision was made at a meeting of the Licensing Regulatory Committee - prompting zoo spokesman Karen Brewer to say the attraction would be 'effectively closed'.

She said: "In effect if you close the walkways you are closing the zoo.

"We would be closing the only access areas to the natural park. You have been round to see the area and in effect you would be closing us."

A further statement added to the zoo's Facebook page said: "Safari Zoo is to close its doors to the public from 9th January 2016.

"Due to decisions made by Barrow Borough Council today and in the past year the management have been forced by councillors and officers into a situation where they decided to close the Zoo.

"It is a difficult decision to make but the Management of the Zoo have no alternatives available to continue. We assure everyone that the zoo is safe and there is no evidence whatsoever to say otherwise. Further detailed information about the situation will be released when authorised."

Just after midnight, a subsequent post was made on the zoo's Facebook page.

The post said: "We feel we have been constantly harassed by the council for the past two years, sent enforcement orders before even telling us of any issue to be enforced , pressurising change, creating confusion and fear within the staff and breaking down morale and confidence in the zoo team. We believe that the council has created an atmosphere that increases risks because of the pressure and fear of prosecution at every turn they make."

The post went on to further accuse the council, and added: "We are being subjected to an unprecedented attack and attempt to undermine our credibility and professionalism at every chance created."

On Friday afternoon, the council issued a response to the zoo's comments.

It said: "On 17 and 18 November 2015, a periodical inspection involving three DEFRA zoo inspectors was carried out at South Lakes Safari Zoo.

"This inspection team included the current head of the zoo expert committee.

"This inspection team will shortly be producing their final report concerning their inspection which will be the subject of a review early in the new year.

"However, the inspection team raised three particular areas of concern which it was felt needed to be addressed immediately.

"This was the reason for the Licensing Regulatory Committee being convened to consider those issues on 17 December 2015.

"In particular there was concern that three existing conditions on the zoo’s licence had not been complied with by the required dates.

"One of these conditions (number 21) related to the public wooden walkways in the zoo and in summary it required the zoo to produce a report by 13 November 2015 to assess concerns about the structural stability of the walkways.

"Concerns about the walkways have been previously raised with the zoo in 2009, 2013 and 2014.

"During the recent November 2015 inspection, the zoo inspectors noticed that some of the wooden posts used to construct the walkways were rotten either at the top or at the bottom.

"When the inspectors asked the zoo if the structural report had been completed, they were told that they had not yet found a contractor to progress the report, despite the deadline (set by the Licensing Regulatory Committee) having passed.

"Barrow Council officers therefore decided that the non-compliance with this, and another two conditions should go before the next Licensing Regulatory Committee meeting which was held yesterday.

"At that meeting council officers recommended with agreement from the zoo

inspectors, that the committee elevate the condition relating to the wooden walkways to a direction order with a compliance deadline of 28 days and that the direction order require all wooden walkways and platforms to be closed to the public until the direction order is lifted.

"It should be noted that the zoo have a right of appeal to the magistrates’ court in relation to the committee’s decision, the appeal period being 28 days from the date they receive written confirmation of the committee’s decision.

"The direction order will not actually come into effect until the 28 day period to appeal has expired."

 

[bigcat speciali]

I have found the article which I think you meant to link to: Council responds to Dalton zoo 'harassment' comments

Yes, I stand corrected, my error and I have edited the url in post 30

 

[Pertinax]

Of course, having to close all the public walkways with immediate effect is mutually excusive with remaining open until January 9th 2016, so he is still not complying with the council.......

According to the newspaper reports (see last lines of Post 35 above), they have a right to appeal against any such Directive over 28 days, and the Directive can't come into effect until after that. So you could have a situation where the walkways were, or were deemed to be, unsafe but they could not be compelled to close them immediately while the 28 day appeal period was running. It does seem that they are trying to address this problem quicker than that now though. Without the walkways operating, as they say, much of the park is virtually not accessible/open.

Despite the onrush of local/social media support, I think closing from the January date mentioned albeit temporarily e.g. for a couple of months may still happen- if only for them to address this and the other current issues raised by the council. As always, nothing is ever straightforward here but if there is still any closure after all this publicity, I'd be surprised if they weren't open again by Easter though..

 

[Nanook]

There is a lot of discussion about this situation.
But at the end of the day it is very, very simple.
David Gill has to comply with the councils wishes. That`s it is.
They hold the strings, and he needs to realise that.
He thinks he is above the law, but he`s not.
I firmly believe the council are sick of him and they are now looking for any excuse they can find to get rid of him, I have no doubt whatsoever that they would take his licence away given enough reason. From the very start the two parties have never got on, and that is a situation you do not want when you are a zoo owner. You must have the council on your side, it is absolutely crucial to the long-term survival of any zoo.
Unfortunately Gill has dug himself a huge hole over the years, with all the things he has done, but he is that stupid, he doesn`t know when to stop digging!

 

[bigcat speciali]

Another odd number of rants from David Gill

For anyone interested. this is a photo of the rhino muck store before the inspection on Tuesday on . (sorry for bad quality , it was raining and on a phone) the inspectors failed to go within 100m of this pile despite no animals or other issues in the field , they had clean leather shoes on and made all their decisions from this virtually blind position.

It shows a distance of over 5,2 m as the minimum distance from pile to fence , there is also a ditch of over 1.2m below this that is clear of any muck , it may look dark but that is the run off from the rain etc. The other photo is a long section of fence in the same field showing a 1.2m high fence with no ditch whatsoever. the anomaly is that the one with no ditch is fully accepted as Baboon proof..... and the one with the ditch is not ? This is why we have to question the logic, professionalism and consistency of inspectors and then the imposition of Directive Orders that do not have any basis in science, fact or reason. A baboon cannot jump over the 1.2 m high fence from no ditch.... how on earth can they jump 5.2m from the pile then over the 1.5m high fence?

This is just one of the quite unreasonable decisions by the council that have created an image of non compliance yet are obviously unfair and for what reason ?
This is why we are asking for a Public Enquiry into the methods, procedures and motives of the Staff of Barrow Borough Council Environmental Health department and the Councillors on the Licencing Committee in relation to the Zoo over the past 2 years.. A petition asking for discussions to resolve issues between Zoo managers and Council Leaders has now nearly 15, 000 signatures

https://www.change.org/p/david-gill-barrow-council-save-sou…
and it would be great to have another asking for a Public Enquiry into the councils activities and motives.

PS this muck store is only there until it is safe enough to have it spread on the fields and it is far too wet now.

Ian Robinson The main complaint from the council's ruling on Thursday seemed to be about inadequate parking and access - what are you doing to address that?

Safari Zoo Dear Ian, I am not sure what you were looking at but this was not on the agenda and in fact is not on any agenda as we do not and have not had any issues with parking after opening our new 700 space facility with new access from A59(). It has been a superb new development , far safer for everyone. best wishes.

Emma Sollinger The neighbours around the area domt help the situation! When we visited a few months back they were kicking off because people were parking on the road as the carpark was full! Theyve probably caused it to close,they were taking photos of all the cars parked up!

Safari Zoo This cannot possibly be true Emma as we have not parked a car on any road since early July when the new facilities were opened.? However you are correct that these people do seem to have load voices. We do not and will not support or encourage any cars to be parked on a road side now. smile emoticon best wishes

For anyone interested in more proof of purposeful misleading if not malicious misinformation to the public and councillors by Environmental Health Department Leaders and Officers.

Quoted from the Committee report

"in terms of the Zoo Licence I re-iterate my assessment of 5th August that
- there is an ‘agreed and written protocol for liaison with the Cumbria Constabulary in response to the escape of an animal outside of the perimeter of the licensed premises’, and as result of recent engagement this will be reviewed and improved, and - there is, subjectively, ‘appropriate firearms cover for the premises’ which has markedly improved with specialist, independent, training and will continue to do so in the short to medium term with the review of available weaponry and consolidated training. I look forward to continuing to work with the Zoo to a conclusion. Please make contact if you wish to discuss matters further.

Regards,

Paul Telford Inspector, Firearms Operations Unit"

Then the official public report by EH Chief at Barrow Borough Council

"The condition contains two requirements; the first is for a written protocol for liaison with the Police. This was completed earlier this year to the Police’s satisfaction.
The second requirement is for appropriate firearms cover and here Inspector Telford is not content that the Zoo is meeting the minimum requirements of the legislation. Instead he points to the need for further training in competent weapons handling by those members of the Zoo staff authorised, and further training along the Police.
Recommendation That the committee escalate the condition to a Direction Order with a compliance date of 30th March 2016

Reason for Recommendation The Zoo has, to date, not been able to satisfy Cumbria Constabulary that the Zoo has suitable firearms and staff trained in their use."

Now how can the Council officers possibly turn this into exactly the opposite to what it says .... why attempt to undermine the public confidence or the Police Inspectors credibility ? This is why we seek a Public enquiry into Staff behaviour and compliance with correct procedure and protocols and investigations into misrepresentation and misleading statements in the public domain to gain legal orders against the Zoo.

 

[bigcat speciali]

It seems that Dave Gill has had plans about giving the zoo up, reading between the lines in his messages posted.

Thank you for all the messages of support. As my friends know I have little to do with the running of the zoo and these are my last few days of being the operator. I plan to spend my retirement a long way from this kind of politics and spend what is left of my life working hard to give help and assistance to those on our planet that have absolutely nothing but....smiles and love... but hey that is actually all you do need !
Love is about giving, sharing putting others first and doing your best to respect and honour our neighbours.
Christmas is all about Love. God has his plans and we have to trust in this .
Despite the accusations of a few my resolve to continue the mission I am so passionate about has not waivered. Merry Christmas to all.