South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes to Close to the Public

[Chlidonias]

bigcat speciali, as I specifically told you in the pm I sent you yesterday which you appear to have ignored, when a post is removed by a moderator, it is removed for a reason - you do not repost it. This is not a street corner where you have the right to say whatever you want. If you have a problem with a post's removal by a moderator, you have the right to report your issue to the site's Administrator and it will be looked into.

I told you in the pm which parts of your previous post were the reasons it was removed. And I told you which parts were not an issue. I have removed the parts from your above post which were conjecture (i.e. what staff are thinking - you are not those people) and which were not at all relevant to the thread (i.e. the last paragraph).

 

[jbnbsn99]

bigcat speciali, as I specifically told you in the pm I sent you yesterday which you appear to have ignored, when a post is removed by a moderator, it is removed for a reason - you do not repost it. This is not a street corner where you have the right to say whatever you want. If you have a problem with a post's removal by a moderator, you have the right to report your issue to the site's Administrator and it will be looked into.

I told you in the pm which parts of your previous post were the reasons it was removed. And I told you which parts were not an issue. I have removed the parts from your above post which were conjecture (i.e. what staff are thinking - you are not those people) and which were not at all relevant to the thread (i.e. the last paragraph).

Other mods are in agreement on this.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Bigcat - I'm going to have to delete that post again I'm afraid; I want to emphasise it is not because it is unsourced or speculation, but because it is off-topic. This thread is for discussion of the upcoming closure, and not David Gill the man.

We all KNOW what Gill is like, and we don't need various cases and stories we've discussed in the past to be raised again as evidence towards the character of the man. Discussion of Gill and SLWAP in the specific context of the upcoming closure - temporary or not - is fine and will continue to be fine, as long as we avoid ad hominem attacks.

This can be taken as a larger guideline for other members of the site - could we try to stick to the topic at hand rather than bringing up the past, except where it is relevant to the present?

 

[bigcat speciali]

Bigcat - I'm going to have to delete that post again I'm afraid; I want to emphasise it is not because it is unsourced or speculation, but because it is off-topic. This thread is for discussion of the upcoming closure, and not David Gill the man.

We all KNOW what Gill is like, and we don't need various cases and stories we've discussed in the past to be raised again as evidence towards the character of the man. Discussion of Gill and SLWAP in the specific context of the upcoming closure - temporary or not - is fine and will continue to be fine, as long as we avoid ad hominem attacks.

This can be taken as a larger guideline for other members of the site - could we try to stick to the topic at hand rather than bringing up the past, except where it is relevant to the present?

I shall refrain and keep the harmony of the topic

 

[Al]

I see on the zoo's Facebook page they are putting a plan together to place all the animals hopefully within 6months!

 

[bigcat speciali]

I see on the zoo's Facebook page they are putting a plan together to place all the animals hopefully within 6months!

Two statements on the future of SLWAP:

However to anyone who knows me or works for me "retiring " from the zoo is no shock at all. It is unfortunate that it now has coincided with this sad controversy. I made my plans to do it in 2013 but events prevented that then. we have been working with my legal advisors on the best possible strategy for my "retirement" for a very long time. As I did not "run" the zoo day to day and have spent nearly half of every year since 2005 out of the country it was decided that I should not have the Zoo licence in my name and that the zoo should have the licence in its name as virtually every other company run zoo. as an interim measure , that's another story on its own for an investigation.
I can tell you that the council is fully informed in writing of the zoos plans for the immediate future and was well in advance of this latest controversy. So be fully aware ANY changes that are to be made were planned well before and are absolutely nothing to do with this last weeks issues.
I hope the Zoo can make the official announcements mid January. I will be carrying on with my passion of humanitarian assistance in the third world and conservation of some of the rarest animals on the planet via the 7 Charitable Trusts I chair or am founding trustee of around the globe. As you can see from my cover photo, it is truly what makes me happy !"

Now 20,000 signatures on the petition to get Phil Huck , Chief Executive of Barrow Borough council to actually sit down face to face with Zoo Management and resolve all the negativity and issues between the council and Zoo. This is not a matter for David Gill but for the management team and we have accepted that request to talk face to face... we await Mr Huck. He has refused to talk to us for over 2 years and seems to clearly want the Zoo to be closed by every decision and action he personally takes or instructs his managers to do.

Let the management make it very clear. There is no change to the Managements decision to close. A strategy plan to place all the animals is taking shape and we should be able to re home most of the animals within 6 months. A report on walkways does not change the underlying issues that have placed the management in this position . Until we have a council that stops its aggressive tactics and starts communication and assisting the zoo by working together we cannot carry on working in fear of constant prosecution for any issue they can dig up and use against us.

The Management would like to point out that the "Do not close Dalton Zoo" facebook page is not connected to the zoo in any way and the information on it is not correct or from any staff member. Its claim the Zoo is to re open is wrong and falsely published."

 

[bigcat speciali]

Exchange on Facebook further clarifying matters:

A member of staff on Sunday told people that it was closing nd re opening in Feb after full structural checks and u could still sponsor animals and buy year passes etc that was only Sunday gone we were feeding the penguins at the time it was said.

this staff member has been corrected and this is untrue and we apologise for the wrong information being given out by any staff member.

 

[bantam]

how can the management team close the zoo,surely that is a decision for the owner.as for meeting with the council gill and his team fail to do this even when invited,at the last planning meeting no representative from the zoo attended, there appears to be only one agenda and that is that everything must be done his way or he creates a media storm,facebook has been a godsend to this guy

 

[Weare2]

Facebook page has been taken down today. Don't understand why the management would want to make their staff and themselves redundant?

Plus there are loans in place to find the new extension.

 

[bigcat speciali]

Indeed, the Facebook page of the safari zoo is down: "Sorry, this content isn't available right now. The link you followed may have expired, or the page may only be visible to an audience you're not in." It is noted that the Facebook page came back on and is now up again.

Dave Gill has said that the zoo is to close but the zoo staff are telling the public otherwise; see Do NOT close Dalton Zoo https://www.facebook.com/savedaltonzoo/?fref=ts &

I also have an email directly from them this week stating they will only close for a short period of time to change certain things. Hoping they keep to their word. .... Now their FB page is down. This is probably because more than 1 person has recieved the same message as myself and this has all been 1 big publicity stunt to get some extra revenue in before they close temporarily to reinforce the walk ways.

 

[Nisha]

Surprise surprise The facebook page is back online again...

 

[bigcat speciali]

The safari zoo facebook page ie Dave Gill has posted the following:

To all those people who have purchased Keeper for the Day or Big Cat or other animal experiences for Christmas presents etc.
We will honour all of them as we can do all of these experiences whether the zoo is open or closed . So please do not worry about this. All animal adoptions will still be used as the animals will still need the support for food and warmth as always. Thank you for all your support we have been overwhelmed with your understanding. However we also realise that we are in an unknown situation and there are many things to consider . But the great news is that all pre purchased items will be valid and honoured ! All school visits for education will also be honoured .

This Government appointed new people to the Zoo Experts Committee a while ago, this is a quango of people who advise the government on the technical issues of the Zoo Licencing Act.
The Chairperson of this committee has never managed a zoo in her life. but been a Vet in a University for the past 23 years. What concerns us is that real experienced practical Zoo Experts are rarely used to inspect Zoos. Yet they are the best possible people to evaluate good management and can understand the practical and human elements of Zoo day to day management. If you have never worked and managed rhinos everyday, or bears or Tigers etc how can you possibly be an expert? We had an inspection recently for another reason unconnected with the council and they used two of the most experienced ZOO MANAGERS in Europe to inspect , they had a total of 90 years of practical hands on management experience between them. Now they are experts and deserve the respect of that true real experience.

Is Dave Gill/safari zoo referring to Pro. Anna Meredith? If he/they are then sadly he/they are wide off the mark and misinformed. Anna is a great vet and has bags of experience, have helped her many times with many exotic animals from Asiatic Black bears to southern white rhino, cheetah and tigers. There are many others who will also say the same as he is widely experienced and looked upon.

Anna Louise Meredith has been made Personal Chair in Zoological and Conservation Medicine.

Anna Meredith
Professor Meredith has an MA in Physiological Sciences from Magdalen College, Oxford, and a VetMB from Wolfson College, Cambridge.

In 1992, after a year in general veterinary practice, she joined the Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies.

She set up and heads the Exotic Animal and Wildlife Service, the only clinical and teaching service of its kind in a UK veterinary school.

Until 2006 she was also Head Veterinary Surgeon at Edinburgh Zoo and the University’s Named Veterinary Surgeon.

Professor Meredith holds the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons’ Diploma in Zoological Medicine and is an RCVS Recognised Specialist in Zoo and Wildlife Medicine.

She holds the British Small Animal Veterinary Association Blaine Award for outstanding contributions and chairs the UK Government’s Zoos Expert Committee.

Her current research interests are in wildlife disease surveillance and conservation of native Scottish wildlife. She is Programme Director of a new online MVetSci in Conservation Medicine.

Professor Meredith lives in the Scottish Borders with her partner and two young children. She enjoys running, mountain biking, hillwalking and playing the flute in the Peebles Flute choir.

Personal Chair: Anna Meredith | The University of Edinburgh

 

[SHAVINGTONZOO]

If Gill wants to retire and play no further part in the zoo's management then surely what he needs to do is transfer ownership to a Trust?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

If Gill wants to retire and play no further part in the zoo's management then surely what he needs to do is transfer ownership to a Trust?

Problem is that as he owns 100% of the shares, he would remain the controlling interest even if he no longer held the licence or any official position within the management.

 

[SHAVINGTONZOO]

Problem is that as he owns 100% of the shares, he would remain the controlling interest even if he no longer held the licence or any official position within the management.

That's why I said "transfer ownership to a trust".

He would then be free to walk away, enjoy his retirement, save mankind and all the other things he says he wants to do.

He says he wants to do.

 

[Nanook]

There is clearly no future for the zoo whilst Gill and the council carry on their feud. I think too much water has passed under the bridge for the two sides to mend it now. The only way forward, in saving the zoo, would be if Gill left and the remaining staff manage to repair the situation with the council. I think Gill`s position at the zoo has become largely untenable.
For him to casually close the zoo and claim that he can re-house the animals within six months indicates his total lack of commitment to the zoo, it`s animals and it`s staff. It is a great shame that others have to suffer from the actions of one idiot.

 

[dean]

For him to casually close the zoo and claim that he can re-house the animals within six months indicates his total lack of commitment to the zoo, it`s animals and it`s staff. It is a great shame that others have to suffer from the actions of one idiot.

This was my thought too, and with the closure of RSCC it seams that private zoos can be run on the whim of the owner, I know others are doing well Colchester for example, and if the owner maybe can't have it all his own way or in the case of RSCC seams to loose interest, every thing goes out with the bath water.

I don't know the inns and outs, of this zoo, having only visited twice, but looking at photos of packed walkways that are claimed to be unsafe and part of his troubles I for one would rather fix them than have to pay £££'s in compensation if they gave way and injured a lot of people. probably out of my own pocket as my insurance company would no doubt wash their hands with me for failing to keep the structures sound.

I also wonder how feasible it could be to suddenly but a lot of animals in to the limited space of the zoo world?

 

[bigcat speciali]

It is feasible to disperse animals from a zoo, many have done it before and with the exceptions of those animal stock deemed to sick to move, then there is a very good success rate. Although it is heart breaking doing it, letting go the animals that you have cared for is a very upsetting time. found it very difficult and I am sure others have also found it so.

Dave Gill has not had a Zoo Closure ordered upon him, even if he did, he has to comply with the Zoo Licence Act 1981 [https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/69595/zoo-licensing-act-guide.pdf] Dave Gill has been served with a Section (19A) of the Act or Section 30 of the document, in relation to making good the reports findings however,there is no zoo closure order mentioned or put in place. Section 18 of the Act mentions the due regard of Appeal, thus far Dave Gill has not made any attempt of an Appeal, albeit with his verbal rants posted on the safari zoos Facebook page and his own page. There has been no Section 16 of the Act ordered upon the zoo therefore Dave Gill has either erred on fact or, he is playing the sympathy card vote in order to make out that he is the greater victim. However, by doing so, he is alienating not just the public but also the zoo park staff and the rest of the UK zoo community. The crying of "poor me, look at me, I am the victim here" may work for some and may work for children, but not here.

The easy answer and reply to all of this is to comply with the order, fix the problems as stated within the report. We must remember hat Dave Gill has a huge habit of not complying, of shouting out and for his tantrums as well as noting that every time the council, be it here in the UK or elsewhere such as in Australia, he has always made a mountain out of a molehill and spat his dummy out.

With the court case looming for Dave Gill, with a high probability of being found guilty, the current childish rants and blame game, could be seen at an attempt to divert attention away from him or, to give ammunition for his court case. Either way, the public grow tired as do the zoo community of his behaviour. It is very odd and virtually unseen for an employer and such being in the zoo community in the UK, to act and behave in such a manner and doing o by using social media. There are employers who do use social media for many reasons and some have been known to use the forum to fire staff and lay bold claims, but this is a new thing, by that I mean that the internet and social media is new as compared to more traditional methods. Dave Gill has stated he is to "retire" from his zoo, and I use the term "his zoo". Previously he has jumped up and down and lay claim to passing the reins onto others, to that of giving up his directorship. Remember, this is his park, he owns it as does his wife, who also sits as a director and as chief vet. Gill is a power hungry and power driven person who enjoys control. It is very unlikely he will run away from his beloved zoo, which also sits on prime ground, planning permission and stock. We have not heard the end of Dave Gill yet...

 

[stubeanz]

This was my thought too, and with the closure of RSCC it seams that private zoos can be run on the whim of the owner, I know others are doing well Colchester for example, and if the owner maybe can't have it all his own way or in the case of RSCC seams to loose interest, every thing goes out with the bath water.

I'm sure that the RSCC closed not because of interest from the owner, remember he still keeps animals privately but because of the amount of money the place was loosing, it wasn't viable to keep building and putting money into a project that wasn't making enough back.

SL does seem to follow your thoughts though, as a place that has hundreds of thousands of visitors a year I imagine they are at least breaking even ! So this seems exactly like an owner becoming bored and loosing interest in a place that keeps having council problem after council problem.

 

[swampy1967]

I'm sure that the RSCC closed not because of interest from the owner, remember he still keeps animals privately but because of the amount of money the place was loosing, it wasn't viable to keep building and putting money into a project that wasn't making enough back.

SL does seem to follow your thoughts though, as a place that has hundreds of thousands of visitors a year I imagine they are at least breaking even ! So this seems exactly like an owner becoming bored and loosing interest in a place that keeps having council problem after council problem.

Without studying media reports and press cuttings from over the years it would seem that the council problems are caused in house by an attitude of the park knows best and an inherant philosophy not to comply with what they are basically being asked to do...... dont think they are being asked to do anything more than any other animal park is asked to from their local authorityl
It's all on the parks terms and if it is forced to do it then it implodes into spoilt brat mode, plays the victim and cries for attention from its followers.

I remember the council took a pasting and a heavy fine when the rhino escaped and even back then it was a case of "well the council didnt tell me i was doing wrong" from the park and its probably back from then where the distrust started from the councils point of view... to be honest, its all rather tedious isn't it ??

If another zoo in the northwest can build what is in effect another zoo as an extension inside its ground s and comply to what it is asked to do, then why is it so much trouble for this place to move a large pile of s**t effectively ??