IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Agree wholeheartedly. To me, the real zebra conservation priority in South Africa should be Cape Mountain Zebra.
Resurrecting the Quagga
- Thread starter Panthera1981
- Start date
Agree wholeheartedly. To me, the real zebra conservation priority in South Africa should be Cape Mountain Zebra.
The ones in the project are spread over a number of different farms and private reserves but yes there are also some already in an official reserve too. But when you look at them, despite what they say, they certainly don't resemble the real thing...
it's actually kind of like (imaginary example thankfully) setting up a reserve in India for white tigers isn't it? Making mock animals and setting aside space for them which could have been utilised for something of real conservation value.
'Mock Quagga'- that's another good description for them.
What about "Faux-ny"
Yep, unless there's some kind of scientific value to the whole thing, I'm not personally a fan. (though the whole thing is funded with private money right now, and I'm not gonna tell people how to spend their own money) Which as far as I can find, there isn't. Personally I'll just wait until we have reliable, affordable cloning technology, thankyouverymuch.
Up-date of the Quagga-project in South Africa :
Quagga comeback: Where to spot the Rau quagga | Traveller24
Quagga comeback: Where to spot the Rau quagga | Traveller24
All well and good: the scientific advisor to the project is a well respected Uni professor and renowned geneticist. I would suppose he at least will have looked at the museum skins to determine whether the managed "quaggas" in some form or other represent genetics from the original quagga steppe zebra.
I do think it is a project worthy of more effort - even though it is talked down as an unrealistic project here (most real science has been based around going against the grain of the science of the day and being branded heretic) -, as we delve deeper into the unknown of extinct species and the question whether if and how we can resurrect them. To this day that technology does not exist, but it is an interesting one ....
What wonders me: why would they not use the natural range of the original quagga for their project? If their genetic material still exist within present day steppe zebra, it could be environmental ...??!
I do think it is a project worthy of more effort - even though it is talked down as an unrealistic project here (most real science has been based around going against the grain of the science of the day and being branded heretic) -, as we delve deeper into the unknown of extinct species and the question whether if and how we can resurrect them. To this day that technology does not exist, but it is an interesting one ....
What wonders me: why would they not use the natural range of the original quagga for their project? If their genetic material still exist within present day steppe zebra, it could be environmental ...??!
um, no. Although they throw around off-hand comments on their website about attempting to "retrieve the genes" they also specifically state (amongst many similar statements) that "since the coat-pattern characteristics are the only criteria by which the Quagga is identified, re-bred animals that demonstrate these coat-pattern characteristics could justifiably be called Quaggas." Basically they are saying that if it looks like a quagga then it is a quagga - in other words they are just inbreeding animals so they become freak zebras that they hope will eventually look like quaggas (and they have a loooong way to go before that happens because despite their claims of growing success their "quaggas" just look like regular zebras with fewer stripes). They are no more quaggas than the Grant's zebras at your local zoo. If you selectively breed domestic dogs for pug noses or elongated bodies the end result doesn't mean you have "retrieved the genes" that their wolf ancestors had for pug noses or elongated bodies.Kifaru Bwana said:
There's really no more science involved in this project than there is in breeding white tigers. The only difference is that they are making out that they are bringing back an extinct animal.Kifaru Bwana said:
Their website also says "for re-introduction into areas formerly inhabited by Quaggas, such animals would undoubtedly be more desirable than any others." I said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again. Why "re-introduce" a population of heavily-inbred freaks when it would be far more sound to just use pure forms of one of the zebra subspecies?
They seem blind to the fact they are merely creating increasingly stripeless or 'white' Zebras. They seem unable to obtain(fix) the dark brown base colour of true Quaggas and there is no sign of it appearing in successive generations. They argue away this failure by saying the base colour was 'variable' in the true Quagga- but they were never white animals. So to compensate, instead they focus evermore heavily on 'stripe reduction' as the single marker for grading their animals as would-be quaggas. but even true Quaggas' head and neck stripe markings/pattern was quite different anyway to these modern animals.
I used to be interested in the project a lot more than I am now, given what they are not achieving with it.
Those sort of people are sometimes blind to what they don't want to see...
That may be for some, but I would and do vouch for EH. He makes more than the grade as a scientist in good standing.
Not arguing about his scientific credentials. Just suggesting that the attempts to rebreed Quaggas to their original appearance are not achieving anything much and after several generations of breeding, that I think he/they are deluding themselves to term any of these animals 'Quaggas'.
Fine by me! I really do respect your well informed opinions on subject matter zoological and zoos. Which you probably knew already ...!!!
I just wish and have to delve a little deeper into the genetics of the steppe zebra where this pertains / relates to the genetic evidence of natural history collection quaggas to make up my mind up over this one.
Various attempts at breed back have failed simply as the genetic material was not there and / or only by using domestic / semi-wild cattle / equid stocks to come up with something like a Heck-Rind (no auerochs) and a konik horse (no tarpan).
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
As stated here
Quagga were extinct for 100 years. Now they're back - CNN.com
I don't see the significance of this "achievement". All of this messing around with breeding animals (and who is providing care for the 121+ animals produced along the way?) in order to create a animal that resembles an extinct species but has neither its genes nor its ecological role? For what?
'retrieve at least the appearance of the quagga'
That is exactly what they have not(so far) done despite their blinkered affirmation that they have already reached that stage.
As to all the other animals used in the project, all are living on farms and private reserves I think
That is exactly what they have not(so far) done despite their blinkered affirmation that they have already reached that stage.
As to all the other animals used in the project, all are living on farms and private reserves I think
in Zooplantman's link above, Eric Harley is saying "...over the course of 4, 5 generations [we have] seen a progressive reduction in striping, and lately an increase in the brown background color showing that our original idea was in fact correct."
On their website is a photo of a 5th generation foal - http://www.quaggaproject.org/quagga-whatsnew.htm - showing that it in fact looks nothing like a quagga.
On their website is a photo of a 5th generation foal - http://www.quaggaproject.org/quagga-whatsnew.htm - showing that it in fact looks nothing like a quagga.
An article on the "reintroductions"
Horses of a Different Color: The Quagga as the New Appaloosa - ICTMN.com
Horses of a Different Color: The Quagga as the New Appaloosa - ICTMN.com