Australian (and NZ) Great Ape News and Discussion

[Zoofan15]

That is never a good sign- it means Johari isn't fully socialised with a silverback's behaviour- females that behave like this don't usually change with time either. Its likely that she would behave in similar fashion with Otana at Melbourne in that case. Despite handraising, Johari presumably had better earlier experience with other Gorillas than her mother Julia did, but it has possibly still left its mark in her adult behaviour. She presumably grew up mostly in the Melbourne group when Rigo was leader(?), and if he showed no interest in her or the other females, she never learnt anything from him about mating behaviour.

One way females in this situation do occassionally get pregnant is if the male traps them in a corner and then mates them forcibly- but the female doesn't usually let it happen again. I know of one situation where a single mating of that type produced a pregnancy! Another way, as happened at Bristol Zoo recently, is where a handreared female that refuses the silverback, has physical contact with a younger male in the group that she is less scared of, first as a playmate and then surrepticious mating occurs too. But you need a younger male to be present obviously.

Re Kimya. Females, even well-socialised ones who love their silverback, are likely to be more tense if kept in a 1.1. relationship with a male, and much more relaxed with more female company, which offers them protection if there is any strife. It could have played a part in lack of her earlier conception . Or it could have been her age?

I believe she spent most or all of her time at Melbourne Zoo with Rigo as the silverback (as oppose to Motoba her father). I understand he showed very little interest in mating with the females and Yuska, the dominant female, was essentially in charge.

Sounds like gorillas, like chimpanzees, are not capable of relearning social skills they missed in their early upbringing. Johari shows a lot of interest in the infants, which are both males. I believe she'd enjoy the experience of motherhood if she could actually get pregnant in the first place. I wonder if Mjukuu or Fabumi will end up impregnating her like you suggested. Could be her only option for natural breeding.

That's interesting about females being more relaxed in a multiple female setting (as would occur in the wild), but makes complete sense. I've seen a video of Fataki getting into a conflict with Kibabu, who then turns on Frala who is backing her son up. The two adolescents, Mbeli and Kimya join in, to support Frala and Fataki. The silverback, outnumbered, retreats.

 

[Zoofan15]

HANDRAISING OF GREAT APES

As identified in recent posts regarding Johari (gorilla) and Kamili (chimpanzee), handraising has caused life long issues for some individuals. It is largely discouraged and some zoos (Wellington) now have a non handraising policy. Below, I have identified some individuals involved with handraising and the effect it has had on them.

New Zealand:

Chimpanzee:

Janie, Josie, Bobby (Auckland Zoo): These three were captured in Africa as infants. They were peer raised, but highly humanised by their tea-party training. When later placed with mother raised chimpanzees, they did not integrate with them. Keepers described them as 'speaking another language.' They lived out the rest of their life in their old concrete and bar enclosure. Josie bred once, producing an infant in 1964, which she neglected. It was removed for handraising but later died. Janie never bred, she regarded herself as dominant over the younger male infant, Bobby, and refused to mate with him or accept him as the alpha, even after they reached maturity.

Sissy (Auckland Zoo): Sissy was also captured in Africa as an infant, and arrived at Auckland Zoo three years after Janie, Josie and Bobby. She performed in the tea-parties and was highly humanised. She did however breed successfully with another tea-party chimp, Charlie. They had two daughters, Suzie in 1964 and Sally in 1970. Both were rejected by Sissy and handraised.

Suzie and Sally (Auckland Zoo): Suzie and Sally were handraised after being rejected by their mother. They were rasied in a house with small children and since showed a particular affinity for young zoo visitors. They were introduced to a male mother raised chimanzee named Mike in 1982, with the intention of breeding, but this never occured. The trio was joined in 1985 by a 10 year old mother raised female named Lucy and her infant daughter Loanda to form a troop. Suzie and Sally moved with the troop to Hamilton Zoo in 2004 and Suzie has since died. Sally often remains distant to the troop and prefers the company of visitors (through the glass), but will groom with Lucy and took on a supportive role of Sanda, after her mother, Fimi, died. While harrassed by Luka in his adolescence, he is now more affectionate towards Sally who has known him since his birth in 2003.

Bebe (Wellington Zoo): Bebe was born in 1962 at Wellington Zoo to Yoka, a tea-party chimp. She was handraised. Bebe produced offspring of her own, Boyd and Marty, who, along with other handraised chimps, were combined with three mother raised chimpanzee from Taronga Zoo to form a troop in 1992. Bebe enjoyed a high ranking postition due to her son Boyd being the alpha male. Bebe died in 2003.

Jodie and Jessie (Wellington Zoo): These two sisters were born to tea party chimp, Yoka. Jodie gave birth to a son, Gombe in 1993, who was mother raised until Jodie's death in 2002. Jessie gave birth in the late 1980s but the infant did not survive. Jessie, despite the notable handicap of being handraised, and having no offspring, is the highest ranked chimpanzee in the troop. Keepers attribute this to her 'spoilt' behaviour, she throws tantrums for only minor reasons and the other chimpanzee don't like to argue with her. This is possibly due to the three Taronga females being adolescents when they arrived, and being intimidated by Jessie, then an adult of 14 years.

Siamang:

Iwani (Auckland Zoo): Iwani and his twin sister, Iberani, were born in 2003 and rejected by their mother six weeks after birth. She attacked Iberani, leaving her with fatal injuries, while Iwani was handraised for two year by a keeper, before being returned to his family. This proved unsuccessful. His parents grew frustrated by Iwani's inability to read their body language and they were separated. After his parents were retired to Hamilton Zoo, Iwani was paired with a female, Kera. They did not bond and it was eventually decided that Iwani was to be euthanased as his quality of life had deteriorated due to his emotional dependence on humans.

Post to be continued...

 

[marmolady]

Thanks Zoofan15 for sharing your insight, it really is fascinating to learn about the history of apes in the region. I was not aware that Boyd had been handraised.

I am very interested in methods of handraising and integration of mismothered infants, particularly in chimpanzees. It certainly seems that giving infants to surrogates at the youngest possible age is the best option, but even short periods of intensive human contact make a long term impact.

 

[Zoofan15]

Thanks Zoofan15 for sharing your insight, it really is fascinating to learn about the history of apes in the region. I was not aware that Boyd had been handraised.

I am very interested in methods of handraising and integration of mismothered infants, particularly in chimpanzees. It certainly seems that giving infants to surrogates at the youngest possible age is the best option, but even short periods of intensive human contact make a long term impact.

No problem, I'm enjoying learning more about the apes in our region myself. I'll double check but I believe Boyd and Marty were mother raised. I must have worded it badly, but I meant to say Bebe (handraised), Boyd and Marty were combined with some other chimpanzees who were handraised (Jodie and Jessie), as well as Sam and the three females from Taronga to form a troop.

 

[Pertinax]

I believe she spent most or all of her time at Melbourne Zoo with Rigo as the silverback (as oppose to Motoba her father). I understand he showed very little interest in mating with the females and Yuska, the dominant female, was essentially in charge.

Sounds like gorillas, like chimpanzees, are not capable of relearning social skills they missed in their early upbringing. Johari shows a lot of interest in the infants, which are both males. I believe she'd enjoy the experience of motherhood if she could actually get pregnant in the first place. I wonder if Mjukuu or Fabumi will end up impregnating her like you suggested. Could be her only option for natural breeding.

I think by the time Rigo took over the group he was already past middle-age and quiet. I can remember seeing him first as a dynamic male in the peak of physical condition- but sadly alone. All those years of solitary did not help him socially. So although he was technically the group leader, he was too old/quiet/desocialised to fulfil the role properly( or at all). So Johari got no experience- mothereared babies frequently indulge in 'practice' sexual behaviour with adult males from quite an early age, so consequently they have no fear of sexual approaches made to them as adults.

I don't think Gorillas learn new behaviours after a certain age- giving them examples of other females rearing babies to copy does not often seem to help an already adult desocialised animal. But I know of several desocialised females in the UK/Europe that despite that, have shown strong maternal behaviour, either as 'aunties' or if they somehow get pregnant themselves.

I would think there's a good chance Johari might get pregnant from one of the younger males, provided they recognise that option and keep them(or one of them) on in the group as long as is feasible.

 

[Zoofan15]

I think by the time Rigo took over the group he was already past middle-age and quiet. I can remember seeing him first as a dynamic male in the peak of physical condition- but sadly alone. All those years of solitary did not help him socially. So although he was technically the group leader, he was too old/quiet/desocialised to fulfil the role properly( or at all). So Johari got no experience- mothereared babies frequently indulge in 'practice' sexual behaviour with adult males from quite an early age, so consequently they have no fear of sexual approaches made to them as adults.

I don't think Gorillas learn new behaviours after a certain age- giving them examples of other females rearing babies to copy does not often seem to help an already adult desocialised animal. But I know of several desocialised females in the UK/Europe that despite that, have shown strong maternal behaviour, either as 'aunties' or if they somehow get pregnant themselves.

I would think there's a good chance Johari might get pregnant from one of the younger males, provided they recognise that option and keep them(or one of them) on in the group as long as is feasible.

I'm not sure why Melbourne Zoo never kept Motoba as their silverback. He was a mother raised male who fathered offspring with all four females, which were then raised by two other silverbacks???

I know Taronga have kept blackbacks in the group as old as 12 years so maybe Mjuuku and Fabumi will be allowed to stay until that age. Frala is 35 years old now and they may decide she's too old to rear another infant when Fabumi is weaned. With this in mind, Fabumi may be allowed to stay in the group longer than Mjukku if Mbeli breeds again so as not to disadvantage Frala socially by removing her only offspring.

 

[Pertinax]

I'm not sure why Melbourne Zoo never kept Motoba as their silverback.

I know Taronga have kept blackbacks in the group as old as 12 years so maybe Mjuuku and Fabumi will be allowed to stay until that age.

I think Melbourne took Motaba out of the group for genetic considerations, they wanted to try and get babies from Rigo who was under-represented, having only a single offspring. It was one of the first instances I've seen of a good group leader(Motaba) being seperated from a female group like that and I thought it was quite a cruel thing to do- genetics notwithstanding. In the event, it proved a waste of time and just lost the group a number of years' development.

Taronga- unfortunately it will be some years(about six) before these baby males are older enough to even possibly father babies. Johari shouldn't be left that long. If one of the (younger) males that went to NZ had stayed with her in the group she might well have been breeding now.

 

[Zoofan15]

I think Melbourne took Motaba out of the group for genetic considerations, they wanted to try and get babies from Rigo who was under-represented, having only a single offspring. It was one of the first instances I've seen of a good group leader(Motaba) being seperated from a female group like that and I thought it was quite a cruel thing to do- genetics notwithstanding. In the event, it proved a waste of time and just lost the group a number of years' development.

Taronga- unfortunately it will be some years(about six) before these baby males are older enough to even possibly father babies. Johari shouldn't be left that long. If one of the (younger) males that went to NZ had stayed with her in the group she might well have been breeding now.

Fully agree removing Motoba from the group was pointless, even detrimental on hindsight when you consider no breeding occurred after he left until Otana arrived 10 years later and that if Motoba had remained in the group, it no doubt would have had a positive influence on Johari socially, allowing her to breed here and now.

When you say Johari shouldn't be left that long, do you mean from a biological or social point of view? Fataki was 11 when Johari arrived and probably too intimidating by then, but Fuzu, then 6 may have been suitable. Kibali wouldn't have tolerated either of Frala's sons though, so I'm guessing that's why they took a chance with Kibali and Johari. Fuzu couldn't have joined Frala in the main troop, and if Fuzu and Johari were paired, this would have meant reintroducing Fuzu to Fataki once Johari was pregnant, as well as introducing the pregnant Johari to Kibali.

I believe Taronga's chimpanzee undergo an annual health check around this time of year, where they are fully immobolised. Assuming the gorillas undergo the same procedure, they could take this oppotunity to attempt AI maybe?

 

[Pertinax]

When you say Johari shouldn't be left that long, do you mean from a biological or social point of view?

Assuming the gorillas undergo the same procedure, they could take this oppotunity to attempt AI maybe?

As Johari is already sixteen years old, I think biologically the more delay in her remaining unbred is increasingly courting problems. By socially I guess you mean maternal instinct- I would think her increasing age wouldn't alter her ability ( or lack of) to raise a baby if she could have one.

Its one of those situations where they just did the obvious- removing the younger males before replacing the troop leader. Its only later that any problems become apparent and hindsight shows what might have happened if they had somehow been kept on. I think Fuzu the younger one might have fitted the bill but as you say there would have been problems with him & Kibali. This option is only really feasible if the two males(Silverback and younger) are father and son living together already.

I can't see now that there would be any benefit returning Johari to Melbourne either.
She seems one of those cases where AI would certainly hold the main hope, except it has such a high failure rate in Gorillas.

 

[Zoofan15]

As Johari is already sixteen years old, I think biologically the more delay in her remaining unbred is increasingly courting problems. By socially I guess you mean maternal instinct- I would think her increasing age wouldn't alter her ability ( or lack of) to raise a baby if she could have one.

Its one of those situations where they just did the obvious- removing the younger males before replacing the troop leader. Its only later that any problems become apparent and hindsight shows what might have happened if they had somehow been kept on. I think Fuzu the younger one might have fitted the bill but as you say there would have been problems with him & Kibali. This option is only really feasible if the two males(Silverback and younger) are father and son living together already.

I can't see now that there would be any benefit returning Johari to Melbourne either.
She seems one of those cases where AI would certainly hold the main hope, except it has such a high failure rate in Gorillas.

I know in some great apes, there have been large periods of non breeding, following a successful pregnancy eg. Lisa (Chimpanzee) gave birth to Liwali 12 years after her last offspring, Dara (Orangutan) gave birth to Darli 11 years after her last offspring, Yuska (Gorilla) gave birth to Yakini 15 years after her last offspring, but in all three cases, the mother had bred prior to the long gap, which may have been significant to future success.

By socially, I meant whether Johari would be disadvantaged by being the only female without offspring, however the other two females are not close, and Johari would still maintain her position in third place regardless of whether she had offspring so I guess her lack of offspring makes little difference.

I think there was hope that she would learn social skills through Mbeli, as they were close at Melbourne Zoo, however as you've pointed out, females don't generally learn social skills past the critical learning period and the relationship between Mbeli and Johari has well and truly soured in recent times.

Johari is the opposite of Kamili (chimpanzee at Taronga). Kamili loves male attention and has no problems getting pregnant, she just doesn't know what to do with the newborn.

 

[Pertinax]

but in all three cases, the mother had bred prior to the long gap, which may have been significant to future success.

I think there was hope that she would learn social skills through Mbeli, as they were close at Melbourne Zoo, however as you've pointed out, females don't generally learn social skills past the critical learning period

Yes, a female that has had young early in life and then a long delay is quite common.(Salome at Bristol and Kamili at Belfast are two UK examples of females with very long birth intervals, caused by their situations). I think problems are more likely with older females that have remained unbred in their younger years, however that's not to say it never happens successfully, it can.

I think the 'cut-off' for learning by imitation is probably around the time e.g. 8 years a female can start to breed herself. When I hear of adult females being given the chance to learn mothering skills from the example of another female, I think its largely a waste of time.

 

[Nisha]

Monarto Chimps - Sandali is currently offshow following surgery over the weekend to repair a badly broken leg. It is believed the injury (broken in 3 places) happened after he fell and landed badly in the enclosure

 

[Zoofan15]

Monarto Chimps - Sandali is currently offshow following surgery over the weekend to repair a badly broken leg. It is believed the injury (broken in 3 places) happened after he fell and landed badly in the enclosure

Sounds really serious. I'm assuming he's in some sort of cast which must be a challenge for the vets to keep him from picking at it. Monarto Zoo seemed optimistic about his recovery however, which is good news. They've not had the best luck with chimpanzee lately.

 

[marmolady]

I don't believe Sandali is in a cast. He's presently living off-show with Tsotsi, Zombi, Galatea and the kids, as so far Boyd and Gombe have not been successfully brought into the mix. The two boys are currently the only chimpanzees viewable by the public. It's such an unfortunate situation and one of the worst individual chimps it could have happened to. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Sandali's smooth recovery and reintegration of the whole group.

 

[Zoofan15]

It's such an unfortunate situation and one of the worst individual chimps it could have happened to.

Because he's low ranking and has no family support?

 

[marmolady]

It's such an unfortunate situation and one of the worst individual chimps it could have happened to.

Because he's low ranking and has no family support?

He has support from the two adult females, but very little from any of the other males as he has been making strong bids to take over from Tsotsi in recent months. He's been targeted by the other boys even before he broke his leg (Boyd and Gombe take Tsotsi's side in altercations).

 

[Zoofan15]

It's such an unfortunate situation and one of the worst individual chimps it could have happened to.

He has support from the two adult females, but very little from any of the other males as he has been making strong bids to take over from Tsotsi in recent months. He's been targeted by the other boys even before he broke his leg (Boyd and Gombe take Tsotsi's side in altercations).

Thanks for that Soona. Does Zombi support Sandali over Tsotsi in altercations?

I guess he's at a disadvantage against Boyd and Gombe since the father and son have a strong bond from living in the same troop prior to the formation of this group.

Is Galatea off contraception yet?

 

[marmolady]

Yes, Zombi will support Sandali. I'd say Galatea is probably his stronger ally though, she was the first of the two of them to start taking his side, and has received minor injuries in the past when she has fought his corner.
I took this on a visit last month; when the altercation intensified, Zombi and Galatea took it as a cue to take Sandali's side. Their involvement decreased the chasing of Sandali around the enclosure, though there was a lot of screaming for some time: http://www.zoochat.com/76/altercation-455227/

Boyd and Gombe are very tight and make a strong force when they are together. Having lost the alpha male position to Tsotsi previously, and presently being the second ranked male, Boyd is certainly not keen to slip further down the hierarchy, so is very much supporting Tsotsi in keeping Sandali's ambitions in check. I have no doubt, though, that sooner or later Sandali will take over, he is very intelligent, socially-savvy and physically impressive.

Galatea's contraceptive has not been removed, but over the past year or so it has been wearing off and she appears to be cycling and having more and more regular swellings. Because of the loss of Zwala when she was anaesthetised to take her off contraception, and probably because the stressful event would likely deteriorate the relationship that has been painstakingly built between Galatea and the keepers (she is very wary of humans, not helped by having to be knocked out a few times to fix a broken arm a few years back), it is not intended for it to be removed unless she needs to be put under for a greater reason. She has been mating with several of the males and getting a lot of attention. I'm hopeful that it will not be many months before she falls pregnant; she has always been exceptionally maternal towards Zombi's infants and I have no doubt that she will be a fine mother.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes, Zombi will support Sandali. I'd say Galatea is probably his stronger ally though, she was the first of the two of them to start taking his side, and has received minor injuries in the past when she has fought his corner.
I took this on a visit last month; when the altercation intensified, Zombi and Galatea took it as a cue to take Sandali's side. Their involvement decreased the chasing of Sandali around the enclosure, though there was a lot of screaming for some time: http://www.zoochat.com/76/altercation-455227/

Boyd and Gombe are very tight and make a strong force when they are together. Having lost the alpha male position to Tsotsi previously, and presently being the second ranked male, Boyd is certainly not keen to slip further down the hierarchy, so is very much supporting Tsotsi in keeping Sandali's ambitions in check. I have no doubt, though, that sooner or later Sandali will take over, he is very intelligent, socially-savvy and physically impressive.

Galatea's contraceptive has not been removed, but over the past year or so it has been wearing off and she appears to be cycling and having more and more regular swellings. Because of the loss of Zwala when she was anaesthetised to take her off contraception, and probably because the stressful event would likely deteriorate the relationship that has been painstakingly built between Galatea and the keepers (she is very wary of humans, not helped by having to be knocked out a few times to fix a broken arm a few years back), it is not intended for it to be removed unless she needs to be put under for a greater reason. She has been mating with several of the males and getting a lot of attention. I'm hopeful that it will not be many months before she falls pregnant; she has always been exceptionally maternal towards Zombi's infants and I have no doubt that she will be a fine mother.

Sounds like Sandali is much like his brother, Shikamoo. Low ranking but popular with the females! Zombi sounds like a strong force of support, so it's good to know she's in his corner. Cool picture, can really see the aggression in their expressions!

I didn't know Boyd was the alpha until recently. He did well to rise the alpha position at all at his age, although he was the alpha at Wellington Zoo for many years.

Sandali had a similar life of being bullied at Taronga Zoo, which was part of the reason he was chosen to be relocated to Monarto Zoo. I don't think he was especially antogonistic towards the other males, it was rather just bad luck they had the advantage of size/age as adolscents. Sandali being born 1996, the others being born 1993, 1994 and 1995. This combined with the fact they all had highly supportive, high ranking mothers, and Sandali didn't, contributed to his low rank. Shikamoo and Sule are in a similar situation, but seem to fit in well with the troop at the moment.

Monarto Zoo is now in the unfortunate position of having an unbalanced ratio of males to females. It'll be good if they can aquire more soon to create a more harmonious troop. Females chimpanzees are almost a different species to males, and seem to exert a calming influence on the group. I think you've mentioned in the past that Monarto have plans to import more females? Do you know if this is still the case or are they waiting to see what the fall out is from the introductions at Taronga atm?

 

[marmolady]

Shikamoo and Sule are fortunate to have one another. It would have been interesting to know what would have become of Sandali if he'd stayed at Taronga.

Boyd was at quite an advantage when he came to Monarto- at that time Tsotsi was very socially inexperienced, Sandali was extremely submissive in his youth, and he had the benefit of a previous relationship with Gombe. It was only when the females were introduced that things changed.

Monarto is definitely looking to import females, but I think the trouble is sourcing them. There is an upcoming import of chimpanzees for the new Sydney Zoo, which I've heard will be quite large, and not really any other chimps available at present time. I believe they're waiting to see what happens with the Taronga introductions.