It could be Ceres then...I look forward to seeing the photos.
How's Shiba, Sembe and Sudi settling in?
Taronga Zoo Chimpanzee Troop
- Thread starter Chimo
- Start date
It could be Ceres then...I look forward to seeing the photos.
How's Shiba, Sembe and Sudi settling in?
OK... I went to TZ today with the lovely tigersam... and got my first look at the 3 new girls...
Hannah seems to have managed to pick herself up a boyfriend (Shabani), and much time is spent mutually grooming... she is a confident and fit looking girl... I think she'll be just fine in the long run.
Naomi is doing OK, but has had a bit of a rough time, and sustained a few ear tears and the like, but overall seems to be fine... although she is petrified of all the trucks going to and fro during the building of the stupid theatre thing near the old orang enclosure. She runs and hides whenever she hears or sees the trucks... *sigh*
Ceres does not appear to be doing very well at all. I'm very worried about her physical and possible mental state from what I saw today. Naomi seemed to be avoiding Ceres for most of the morning, but eventually decided to have a grooming session at about 1pm - and Hannah also came over and joined in the fun. But overall, Ceres' condition worries me greatly...
T.
Hannah seems to have managed to pick herself up a boyfriend (Shabani), and much time is spent mutually grooming... she is a confident and fit looking girl... I think she'll be just fine in the long run.
Naomi is doing OK, but has had a bit of a rough time, and sustained a few ear tears and the like, but overall seems to be fine... although she is petrified of all the trucks going to and fro during the building of the stupid theatre thing near the old orang enclosure. She runs and hides whenever she hears or sees the trucks... *sigh*
Ceres does not appear to be doing very well at all. I'm very worried about her physical and possible mental state from what I saw today. Naomi seemed to be avoiding Ceres for most of the morning, but eventually decided to have a grooming session at about 1pm - and Hannah also came over and joined in the fun. But overall, Ceres' condition worries me greatly...
T.
Thanks for that update Tdierikx, it's good to hear how the three new females are getting on.
On the notes I have on Ceres, it says she moved to a different enclosure in 1999, while her mother Jenny stayed in their original enclosure and gave birth to Naomi in 2001. Since they were all still at Givskud Zoo, I didn't pay much attention to this note. The impression Taronga have given us from their updates, combined with your observations support the idea Ceres and Naomi, despite being sisters, had never met before in their life prior to coming to Taronga Zoo. This would explain the lack of support Ceres seems to be getting from her sister, and the difference in social skills between her and Naomi.
Now Koko has been removed, is there any particular chimpanzee giving Ceres a hard time in her current group?
How would you compare the size/build of Ceres, Naomi and Hannah to the current females? Are they as large/powerful as Shiba and Kuma, or smaller like Sacha?
Naomi is the smallest of the 3 new girls... about the size of Sasha. She looks pretty good... and she's been offering herself to Samaki at regular intervals, so all seems fine there.
Hannah is well built and seems fairly confident... she has very few signs of any aggression having been shown to her from the TZ chimps - and she seems to have taken Kamili's place as Shabani's fave new friend... *grin*
Ceres is average for a female chimp - not large, but not small... although she may have originally been quite a bit better padded out and less tatty looking when she arrived.
None of the new 3 are built anything like Kuma or Shiba - our girls are BIG! Kuma could easily take on any of the males and stand a fighting chance... lol!
Shiba was ignoring the new girls most of the time, except for when Hannah and Naomi were having a grooming session with Koko, and Sudi decided to interject himself to play with Koko - Hannah gently pushed him away, and then Shiba got up and slowly approached the group, but once she saw Sudi was not fazed, she left it at that.
Sembe approached Ceres a few times and gave her the challenge stare while I was there, but nothing came of it. Sembe also followed Naomi around in a dominant fashion a couple of times, which you could see Naomi wasn't too sure about.
The chimps in with the new girls on Friday were Lubutu, Shabani, Samaki, Shiba, Sembe, Sudi, and Koko. Koko was not showing any signs of aggression or dominance to the new girls that I saw. I could not find Kamili in either group... ?
Most of the time Ceres was off on her own trying to not be noticed - Naomi was mobile about the exhibit, but running off to hide whenever a truck went past - and Hannah spent most of her time canoodling with Shabani. Hannah and Naomi seem to have decided to be friends, as they had a mutual grooming session around 1pm, and Koko seemed to join in. When Ceres approached, Koko wandered off, and Hannah and Naomi gave her a cursory groom for a few seconds, then went back to dealing with each other.
I took photos, but won't be sharing any of Ceres, as I deem them a bit too distressing - and as we are not experts, we could be drawing conclusions that aren't 100% correct. I'm sure that Ceres' condition is on the agenda at every morning keepers meeting, and that they are ready to do anything they need to do in order to make things better for her.
T.
Hannah is well built and seems fairly confident... she has very few signs of any aggression having been shown to her from the TZ chimps - and she seems to have taken Kamili's place as Shabani's fave new friend... *grin*
Ceres is average for a female chimp - not large, but not small... although she may have originally been quite a bit better padded out and less tatty looking when she arrived.
None of the new 3 are built anything like Kuma or Shiba - our girls are BIG! Kuma could easily take on any of the males and stand a fighting chance... lol!
Shiba was ignoring the new girls most of the time, except for when Hannah and Naomi were having a grooming session with Koko, and Sudi decided to interject himself to play with Koko - Hannah gently pushed him away, and then Shiba got up and slowly approached the group, but once she saw Sudi was not fazed, she left it at that.
Sembe approached Ceres a few times and gave her the challenge stare while I was there, but nothing came of it. Sembe also followed Naomi around in a dominant fashion a couple of times, which you could see Naomi wasn't too sure about.
The chimps in with the new girls on Friday were Lubutu, Shabani, Samaki, Shiba, Sembe, Sudi, and Koko. Koko was not showing any signs of aggression or dominance to the new girls that I saw. I could not find Kamili in either group... ?
Most of the time Ceres was off on her own trying to not be noticed - Naomi was mobile about the exhibit, but running off to hide whenever a truck went past - and Hannah spent most of her time canoodling with Shabani. Hannah and Naomi seem to have decided to be friends, as they had a mutual grooming session around 1pm, and Koko seemed to join in. When Ceres approached, Koko wandered off, and Hannah and Naomi gave her a cursory groom for a few seconds, then went back to dealing with each other.
I took photos, but won't be sharing any of Ceres, as I deem them a bit too distressing - and as we are not experts, we could be drawing conclusions that aren't 100% correct. I'm sure that Ceres' condition is on the agenda at every morning keepers meeting, and that they are ready to do anything they need to do in order to make things better for her.
T.
It sounds like Hannah is settling in really well. From what I've heard Kuma isn't especially fussed on Shabani so I doubt they'll be much jealousy from her over the attention she's getting from him, when Kuma and her boys are introduced. It'll be interesting to see whether Shabani and Samaki will get ditched when the rest of the boys are introduced.
It doesn't sound like Ceres is doing well at all, but I agree the keepers are doing everything they can for her. Her condition may look shocking to visitors, but chimpanzee are physically much tougher than us and can recover quickly from injuries. The fact they've chosen to reintroduce Koko suggests they've seen an improvement in Ceres' condition in my opinion. Maybe Kamili has been removed for a few days so Koko does not become too empowered.
Interesting observation on Sembe. She's only 8 years old and I'm guessing physically smaller than Ceres and Naomi? Since either of them could probably overpower her in a fight, I'm guessing she's either confident of Shiba's support if a conflict arose, or perhaps there has been a previous conflict since Shiba and Sembe were introduced, to give her dominance over the two of them.
Hopefully Shikamoo or Sule can give some support to Ceres when they're introduced.
I guess it goes without saying that all three new females would be on contraception until settled, but if they wanted Shabani to father any offspring, you'd think this would be his best chance while three of the four other reproductive males are out the picture!
The new girls have some massive swellings... Shabani may just think all his christmases have come at once... lol!
I'd think that the new girls would possibly get a bit more standing if they started getting pregnant and producing offspring as soon as possible, no? They can be bred just fine with any of the males we have...
T.
I'd think that the new girls would possibly get a bit more standing if they started getting pregnant and producing offspring as soon as possible, no? They can be bred just fine with any of the males we have...
T.
I definitely agree the new girls would benefit from producing offspring asap. I know Monarto Zoo had their females remain on contraception for a while after they were introduced to the males to let things settle down, so I’m not sure if Taronga will be doing the same.
If Ceres is run down, a pregnancy may not be the best thing for her, and I’d be concerned about the possibility of infanticide.
Any of the males would be fine but only Shabani represents Monte's line, while the other males all represent Snowy's line.
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I hope things improve for Ceres. It seems like Koko causes a lot of problems in the troop to be honest, not least for Kamili and her past oppotunities to breed.
Thinking about Monarto and their choice to delay breeding, their younger females were only 9 or 10 when they arrived. Taronga will no doubt be advised to breed sooner given the new females are 15, 23 and 26.
Thinking about Monarto and their choice to delay breeding, their younger females were only 9 or 10 when they arrived. Taronga will no doubt be advised to breed sooner given the new females are 15, 23 and 26.
Osprey71
Well-Known Member
Observation from Sunday.
Ferrer was sticking to shona like glue all day. Quiet a lot of grooming. Nothing else.
The new group stayed inside for most of the morning and only came out at feed time. Shabami stuck his headout the door but went back in again.
Sule was playing with Liwalli and Fumo a lot. Lisa and kuma there little mothers group. Sule was up to his old tricks chasing the duck family.
When they came out the boys in the main group started to display and went over to the dividing fence.
The boys were quite active at about 2.30pm bashing the door and displaying there muscle. The keepers had not let them in at 2.45pm for there afternoon feed, when I felt.
Ferrer was sticking to shona like glue all day. Quiet a lot of grooming. Nothing else.
The new group stayed inside for most of the morning and only came out at feed time. Shabami stuck his headout the door but went back in again.
Sule was playing with Liwalli and Fumo a lot. Lisa and kuma there little mothers group. Sule was up to his old tricks chasing the duck family.
When they came out the boys in the main group started to display and went over to the dividing fence.
The boys were quite active at about 2.30pm bashing the door and displaying there muscle. The keepers had not let them in at 2.45pm for there afternoon feed, when I felt.
Do you mean Furahi?
It's amazing to think how long the original group has bee without Lubutu as alpha. There's gonna be some explosions between the males when Furahi, Shikamoo and Sule are reintroduced.
Sorry, I should have phrased my question better. You refer to 'Ferrer' as sticking to Shona like glue in your post above. I was asking if 'Ferrer' was an autocorrect of Furahi? That seemed the most likely, but I was confused as Furahi has never shown much interest in Shona before.
Furahi only interacts with Shona when she has a swelling... he will groom her in order to get favours...
tigersam doesn't check what she's written before posting... *sigh*... and makes the odd spelling and/or grammar error which makes deciphering her posts a bit of work... *grin*
T.
tigersam doesn't check what she's written before posting... *sigh*... and makes the odd spelling and/or grammar error which makes deciphering her posts a bit of work... *grin*
T.
Oh okay thanks for that,
How does it work that they've been introduced in with only some of the chimps but not all, I noticed that there were was a baby in there as well, will they all be in together soon enough?
Also when they re did the Chimpanzee exhibit building that diving wall thing was that so they could house two groups of chimps down the line or just in general they thought it a good idea in case of situations like this.