@zoomaniac. As always, i don't agree with youYour personal views of such much things what has to do with zoos, anmials and their welfare are really strange, but not unuasally for a"Zoomaniac" Zoofreak.
Back to Wuppertal. And this cat exhibit is definetely not what zoostuff would call a good cat exhibit. Well panted ? Where ? No hiding places, no climbing oppurtunies, too small...
But of course a zoofraks fas to defend it, their are golden cats inside......
@Animal: That's why I wrote "WAS not the yellow of the egg" (Past)! I mentioned it, because this form of keeping just started a couple of years ago.
With all the things I just wanna say, that there are ALSO things in Nuremberg that are far away from being perfect (as in every zoo).
@Tarsius: Yes, that's the only point we are agree: That we are disagree.
But do you think that you are the right person to tell someone, that his opinion is strange???? I just give you the advice to look again to your post in other threads here and the reactions of the other members. And then think about it...
About Wuppertal: You contradict yourself (once again):
Back to Wuppertal. And this cat exhibit is definetely not what zoostuff would call a good cat exhibit. Well panted ? Where ? No hiding places, no climbing oppurtunies, too small..
Why are glass windows when they are out of reach more stressful. I went to munster zoo yesterday and at the yellow throated marten exhibit and got the same feeling. Such a rare species in a zoo but your view is obstructed by bars or chain link fence.
Most new exhibits have glass windows are they all built in the wrong way ???
Why are glass windows when they are out of reach more stressful. I went to munster zoo yesterday and at the yellow throated marten exhibit and got the same feeling. Such a rare species in a zoo but your view is obstructed by bars or chain link fence.
Most new exhibits have glass windows are they all built in the wrong way ???
the isssue of glass windows.
It all depends how their used and the species it applies to. It some cases glass windows are unescesary and do nothing but 'look nice'.
@zoomaniac. Thanks for the flowers, but I knew that before, I've always known.
Hmm, do you have any problems with trains in Zoos ? Strange, it seems, the animals at Nuremberg have less problems with the train than you do...And if iIremember correctly, you like the Zoos in the USA.Hmm, but there are many, many zoos with trains around exhibits..What about the Train at Whipsande which is going THROUGH the White Rhino exhibit ?
And last but not least, what about Berlin zoos, it lays inside the city, sourrounded by streets, tran stations, houes, skyscrapers, or the metro under the zoo..., noisy streets with thounds of noisy cars and people, ( also thousands of noisy people IN the Zoo ! ) trains, planes, automobiles...Poor animals, I remember, a few years ago, a pregnat serow died at berlin zoo because of a fireworks in the neighbourhood...So wouldn't you agree with me, it would be better for the animals, to close Berlin zoo, sell the serveral billions of euros worth area , take the money fromt he sell and build a complete new zoo in Freidrichsfelde, where it is much more quiet than in the City of berlin ? belive me, this is much more noisy than the train at Nuremberg zoo, which is running olny in season...
How old are the Bear Grotto at Nuremberg ? More than 70 years, build in 1939, if I'm not wrong.
Nuremberg has a much better animal welfare than both Berlin zoos together, to name just one example.
But back again to Wuppertal. You like this small ,"boring" and"outdated" ( two of the favourite descriptions of so many people here at zoochat, if it comes to older exhibits )cats enclosures ? Than you are exactly that kind of a zoomaniac Zoofreak, which isn't really interested in the needs of animals, if it comes to see rare species...
OK I give in. The cages are sufficient for now and maybe it isn't the best to put windows in. But in the near future they should do something with it. They know how to do this look at the lion and tiger exhibits.
@Tarsius: You missunderstand me (or you want to missunderstand):
For myself, I'm not against an improvement of the "old" big cat house or even other older cat exhibits in Wuppertal. There will be probably always exhibits, that can/should be improved (maybe one point, we are in a miracle way agree?).
All I said is that the cat exhibts in Wuppertal are not that bad. And when we look at other zoos in Germany keeping Asian Golden Cats, do they really make it better (or so much better) after your opinion? And I still believe that breeding is a natural behaviour and that there must be something wrong with keeping, if the animals don't breed.
Noise is just an example, that is/can be a disturbing factor for animals (according to many animal behaviour researchers). Wasn't it you, who was annoyed about people (specially kids) pounding and knocking against windows, shouting and crying in animal houses and making other kind of noise? IF(!) Nuremberg want to be that STRICT idol-zoo you are talking about, THEN this factor should be reduced to a minimum. That would mean: Closing down the train. The train does not run for the pleasure of the animals, it runs for additional money. But you are right: I am not against trains in zoos IN GENERAL, because I think that a zoo is for animals AND people. And sometimes, there are situations zoopeople has to balance pros and cons. So for me it is okay, what Nuremberg is doing in this case.
Yes, the bear "grotto" is old, older then the Manatee exhibit. So why they not improved the Bear exhibit first? Maybe because "ordinary" visitors are bothered more about the "not crystal clear" water in the Manatee house then the not obvious bad influence bear grotto has? (Which doesn't mean, that I am not grant/allow the Manatees their new exhibit)
Also by the way: Asian Golden Cats are not that special for me as you try to imply. And if I remember correctly, you have told me that the MAIN reason to visit an US-Zoo (and taking the extra way) were the last remaining individuals of some Antelope/Duiker species...
@zoomaniac
so if animals in zoos don,t breed; there is something wrong; but why animals are breeding in the most bad conditions also and why thew are not breeding in perfect exhibitsSorr, but your point of view isnt only strange,its wrong Even in furfarms animals breed; also in circusses or even in the big chicken batteries, chicken lying eggs.........
What's the diffrence between an antelope and a duiker ?
I4m ready to stop this discussion in here, or better, to stop discussions with ypu generally.
@Tarsius: Because breeding is NOT THE ONLY factor of animal welfare (and if you want to say, it ist not the most important, then okay, nothing against that). But when some zoos with great exhibits, best structure of individuals and what else other do not breed, then something is wrong. And if zoos with bad conditions have breeding success with a species and others with good conditions haven't, then it is not allways luckily composition of breeding pairs the reason. There must be any effort or any kind of exhibitry/feeding/handling/care etc. which is better then in the zoo with "better" conditions (Which DOESN'T mean: Put all animals in egg-batteries. Just copy the good thing for your zoo, even when the reason is a small exhibit). And Wuppertal has done many efforts for breeding cats and was (or still is) a leader with Black-footed Cats for example, although some people think and say, their exhibit is to small, not enough "furnished" or whatever.
Maybe my English is not good enough to explain exactly what I mean. So if there will be a time in future, where we can talk from person to person again, then I can verity.
Difference between an antelope and a duiker?: None, if you mean zoological terms. I just forgot to but in the word "bigger".
