@ANyhuis. I know what I talking about. I'm the smae you are, a zoofan, but I think, I see zoos and animals in captivity with another point of view as you or other zoofans do, maybe I have seen so many zoos and I have a good knowledge of the world behind the bars ? Belive me, the is nothing to critize of the gorilla outdoor exhibit at Bronx, its raelly good, no question, I ciritize the keeping of gorillas in its whole at the zoo, especially the bad conditions for them in winter times.
@Dan. Of course I'm still critcial, i've ssen the whole indoor complex with my own eyes, okay ? I know a lot of how to keep gorillas in captivity, some friends are working with big apes, so thats why I can tell you my personal view of the gorilla keeping at the Bronx Zoo, and it isn't the best, like the whole zoo.
Well...... if you have checked out the views that I generally express here at ZooChat, I think you will know that you and I are basically on the same page (just like I, incidentally, phrased it in a comment to new forumster Charly a few minutes ago). By that I mean that you and I seem to consider animal welfare be the top priority when it comes to zoo matters. (BTW I might be mistaken, but this is how I have interpretated your contribution to ZooChat. You definitely stress this point a lot, don´t you?)
By this I am not in any way implying that other forumsters are not interested in this factor, only that some of us seem to particularily stress it. (Often the total quality of a zoo seem to be judged by forumsters on a number of other factors, for instance the number of species, the way the zoo is layed out - geographically themed etc - the educational quality, the zoo´s efforts on conservation etc etc etc. MY PERSONAL criteria happens to be the welfare of the animals in a zoo. If you are going to keep non-domesticated animals in captivity, better well treat them as damned good as possible - OR DON´T KEEP THEM AT ALL!)
Having said this, I am in all honesty simply not totally convinced by your criticism of Bronx Zoo in general and the indoor quarters of the gorillas in particular. You will have to be more specific to convince me, especially after I have read so many posts from other forumsters with the opposite views.
But I have a totally open mind and I would welcome more arguments from you.
And I now see that Charly, whom I mentioned in my post above, also has commented here. But just like I wrote to Zebraduiker: be a bit more specific, please!
Please tell us more about your credentials! It "sounds" like you know what you're talking about, but without knowing anything about who you are, how do we know how seriously to take your critiques?
ANyhuis, not everyone wants to give away who they are on the internet. Zebraduiker's posts appear to be written by someone who works in or with zoos, so perhaps he/she does not want to give away who they are so he/she can continue to express opinions. Even I, who am just a zoo fan, tend not to give away too much about myself (terrified of paedophiles ) and would rather be judged on what I write then who I am. Most members of ZooChat know exactly who you are, and that's fine, just don't expect others to be so liberal.
ANyhuis, not everyone wants to give away who they are on the internet. Zebraduiker's posts appear to be written by someone who works in or with zoos, so perhaps he/she does not want to give away who they are so he/she can continue to express opinions. Even I, who am just a zoo fan, tend not to give away too much about myself (terrified of paedophiles ) and would rather be judged on what I write then who I am. Most members of ZooChat know exactly who you are, and that's fine, just don't expect others to be so liberal.
He/she doesn't have to tell us "exactly" who he is to add a bit more credibility to his/her critiques. He/she could say, "I've been working in zoos here in Western Europe (or in the Eastern USA, etc.) for 15 years now, and I've seen the insides of many zoos", or something like that. If he/she is "just" a zoo fan, like many of us, he/she could say something like, "I've been a fan of zoos for nearly 20 years, and in that time I've visited over 100 zoos". Sure Zebraduiker "sounds" like he knows what he's talking about, but does that sound come from true expertise, or is he just a good poser? When you're taking shots at what many consider the "gold standard" is modern zoo exhibitry (Congo Gorilla Forest), it would be good to back up your critique -- at least a little -- with some credentials.
He/she doesn't have to tell us "exactly" who he is to add a bit more credibility to his/her critiques. He/she could say, "I've been working in zoos here in Western Europe (or in the Eastern USA, etc.) for 15 years now, and I've seen the insides of many zoos", or something like that. If he/she is "just" a zoo fan, like many of us, he/she could say something like, "I've been a fan of zoos for nearly 20 years, and in that time I've visited over 100 zoos". Sure Zebraduiker "sounds" like he knows what he's talking about, but does that sound come from true expertise, or is he just a good poser? When you're taking shots at what many consider the "gold standard" is modern zoo exhibitry (Congo Gorilla Forest), it would be good to back up your critique -- at least a little -- with some credentials.
Fair enough, but I don't see why who a person is matters concerning their opinions on zoos or exhibits. Besides, what is being rated is something very few of us will have a chance to see, so we don't know that it is "gold standard" - so far 2 against 1 that it is, not great odds.
