2009 IDA Worst Zoos for elephants

okapikpr

Well-Known Member
Whether you choose to ignore or not. This is still news and bad PR for zoos that should be addressed.

In Defense of Animals ~ News Release

Those that made this year's list:

San Antonio, TX
Houston, TX
Los Angeles, CA
Buffalo, NY
Oklahoma City, OK
Baton Rouge, LA
Washington, DC
Seattle, WA
Fort Worth, TX
Dallas, TX
Tampa, FL (Lowry Park)

And remember folks, this isnt specifically about the zoo's elephant exhibit. But also husbandry, management, history, and census. And for the most part, its really just a summary of all the bad press that zoos have received in the past year about its elephants and etc.
 
Well... I, for one, have nothing to offer "in defence". But I know that lots of other forumsters will.

So, come on, everybody!
 
Honestly, serveral of these zoos totally deserve to be on that list and the bad press that will come with it - it`s a shame that the 2 lone females in Dallas and San Antonio are still alone and not long moved to the sanctuary in Tennessee. And that the Buffalo Zoo wasted 1 million to expand the barn to just 180 sq m² for 3 elephants in such a cold climate where they have to spend most of their time indoors for months is ridiculous. Houston, on the other hand, has no climate problems, but that ALL - each and every one - of the ele calves born there died is a fact and they should start finding out what they are doing wrong before "breeding more misery".
 
The IDA uses words like "barren" and "grisly" to convince the uneducated that zoos are dismal places. Personally I don't think IDA has a right to criticize zoos and if they really wanted to improve them they would make an "IDA's Top 10 Best Zoos for Elephants in 2008". Lowry Park's 2 acre exhibit is actually really nice. For them to call it barren is wrong.
 
Whether you choose to ignore or not. This is still news and bad PR for zoos that should be addressed.

In Defense of Animals ~ News Release

Those that made this year's list:

San Antonio, TX
Houston, TX
Los Angeles, CA
Buffalo, NY
Oklahoma City, OK
Baton Rouge, LA
Washington, DC
Seattle, WA
Fort Worth, TX
Dallas, TX
Tampa, FL (Lowry Park)

And remember folks, this isnt specifically about the zoo's elephant exhibit. But also husbandry, management, history, and census. And for the most part, its really just a summary of all the bad press that zoos have received in the past year about its elephants and etc.

The press release also ties the National Zoo in DC with the Seattle Zoo. That one I believe is misplaced. Criticizing the zoo solely because it chooses to inseminate a breeding age animal isn't fair. While it may be questionable, it's not like either of those two are the only zoos inseminating animals. Judging it as wrong because of the circumstances of past births isn't fair either.
 
The IDA thinks zoos are bad for elephants! Wow, that's big news! Want some more: Osama Bin Laden still hates the USA. Hamas thinks that Israel is evil. The common trend: ALL are biased and all desire nothing other than the complete destruction of their target.
 
When I was younger I made a rather naive mistake of expressing my lack of concern about animal rights groups in an animal-related forum. I received several responses highlighting just how young and naive I really was concerning this issue. There were two responses that really stood out to me from all the others. Let's just say, I grew up a little and became open-minded to opinions around me. I saved my statement and those responses as a reminder to myself and I still look back at them from thime to time. The following is my statement and the responses, anonymously:

My statement:
I thought that this listserv was being moderated. All this talk of this person is doing this and that group is doing that - is not very
professional in my opinion and does not need to be on this listserv. If
you want a place to post these items and your opinions regarding those
issues, please create your own yahoo group and don't place them here. As a student, I joined this listserv to learn what real issues and questions concern zookeepers in the field, not all of this "animal welfare" stuff. So please keep to just professional communication so we can all learn from each other's experiences with our animals.

Response #1:
Zookeeping IS animal welfare


Response #2:
Unfortunately these are issues that we are concerned about as well. If an animal rights group does not like what is happening at a certain zoo they will stand outside and picket. As a zookeeper you look pretty stupid if you get face to face with an animal rights activist and you have no idea what their organization does or does not stand for. We had this issue come up at the zoo I work at with the transfer of an elephant. I understand that this is not an issue we may face every single day but a lot of animal rights activist will tell you what you want to hear or try to get behind the scenes and spend the day with a keeper and in the long run you find out they are from PETA or another organization trying to get insider information on how the zoo may be running things. Each individual is going to have their own opinion about each of these animal rights groups because people have differing opinions. Sometimes you may even bring to light an argument or fact that another may not know and that may change someone's opinion. As far as your statement about this list serv. I agree there is a lot of mumbo jumbo on this listserv that shouldn't be here...that's when you have to find a better listserv or source for information...there are a lot of keepers that don't care for this list serv and many that do...you will find that there is never one right answer to a question or concern becuase of people's differing beliefs and it happens with the animals we take care of as well.
 
One things for sure,if any of them try joining here or trashing us,I will personally take them down,destroy them and make them wish they never joined!I hate IDA so much for what they've done to zoos.Like Allen said,there not here to help zoos,there here to destroy them.But one of these days,someone is bound to destroy them
 
I was thinking that today! I would love to come up with some sort of group that campaigns against the IDA and has a website and lists a top 10 best zoo's for the year. That would be amazing!
 
Tired of just talk? Want to do something to support zoos? AND show IDA that their propaganda is just that?

VOTE now to support LA Zoo's Pachyderm Forest:
Jack Hanna announces his support for the L.A. Zoo's controversial elephant exhibit | L.A. Unleashed | Los Angeles Times

Thanks, Ungulate! I just went to the LA Times site and voted for the Zoo (and against the IDA). Do the same, everyone -- the vote is really close! Right now the IDA is winning, 50% to 49%.
 
I have studied the list, and agree with ZooChat member Yassa in that several of the zoos deserve to be on there for their inadequate exhibits or practices. At the same time, I'm beginning to feel strongly that the IDA should highlight the improvements that North American zoos have done for their elephants each year, and a list of the ten best zoos for the world's largest land mammals would be beneficial for everyone. That way the IDA could perhaps point out their well-publicized campaigns were working, zoo fans would be content, and the elephants mentioned would be in a healthier environment.

Zoos like San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso and Dallas (all Texas institutions) are obviously below par with some of the resources available, and keeping elephants solo in San Antonio and Dallas is unforgiveable. Even the most pro-zoo fans on ZooChat should admit the obvious and therefore be willing to criticize zoos that exhibit such social animals completely isolated from their own species.

Six Flags Discovery Kingdom and Brec's Baton Rouge are a pair of zoos that more resemble circuses than anything else, and with elephants doing tricks for the public while being aware of ankus-wielding trainers should also be undefendable by any member of ZooChat. Is it really possible to defend both Six Flags and Houston from the deaths of pachydems, as elephants drop dead like flies at those two institutions.

Zoos like the National Zoo in Washington D.C., Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle and the Oklahoma City Zoo really don't belong on the list, and they are silly choices that I shake my head over. I'm realistic, logical and understanding with those zoos, and both the National and Oklahoma City zoos have mega-budget new elephant exhibits opening around 2011. The appearances of those 3 zoos on the list is in sharp contrast with the true offenders who have appalling records of injury, isolation and mismanagement.

Overall I'd say that no one here at ZooChat can truly defend some of the zoos with hideous track records with elephant deaths and exhibitry, but at the same time there are a few zoos that don't have any place on the IDA's list. I'd love to see the organization produce a "best ten" list that includes places like North Carolina (7 acres), Oakland (6 acres), Indianapolis, San Diego WAP, and other zoos that have truly great elephant habitats. It would give all zoos an opportunity to aspire to make the list of the better establishments, would be terrific publicity for those zoos that were regarded as the premier institutions, and would perhaps give more stability and control to the IDA rather than simply bashing all zoos with elephants in a vain attempt to eradicate pachyderms from North American collections. Just as when I visit zoos and review them online, it is vitally important to highlight the fantastic exhibits and practices as much or more so than the inadequate ones.
 
I have to argee, really nicely put snowleopard. Zoos are alot better than they were but without people challenging the standards, how can we improve the quality of life of these animals?
 
I have studied the list.... IDA's list. I'd love to see the organization produce a "best ten" list <of> zoos that have truly great elephant habitats.

Sorry, Snowleopard, but you're dreaming to think that this wacko group will ever produce this list. As we've said, their ONLY goal is to shut down all zoos, and thus it would be against their own interests to applaud any zoo. Your biggest mistake was studying this silly list! It's bogus!
 
Snowleopard, I agree with your statement word-for-word. However I do think there is no reason for Lowry Park to be on the list also. The enclosure is one of the better elephant habitats and it has a huge watering hole. The other zoo that I think that does not deserve to be mentioned most of all is the St. Louis Zoo. They have multiple outdoor exhibits for the elephants. None of which are "tiny" like IDA claims and all have huge deep river pools. They all have greenery in them and varied terrain. By the way, St. Louis will be expanding their already nice elephant complex. The last zoo that does not deserve to be on the list is Los Angeles. I hate when IDA says 3.7 acres is inadequate for an elephant. The Pachyderm Forest would be a great new addition to the Los Angeles Zoo and it makes me mad that IDA is trying to stop them from completing a great elephant exhibit. If they really cared about elephants they would just let the habitat be completed.
 
We have to remember that the IDA sees all zoos as "animal prisons". For the IDA to produce a "Ten Best" list of any exhibits would be like some Jewish group to come out with at "Ten Best Nazi Concentration Camps" list.

When we look at the IDA's list with ANY validity, we are -- to a degree -- accepting their premise that zoos are animal prisons. Recently the Director of Belgium's Antwerp Zoo said he sees zoos as a "necessary evil". Do any of you zoo-lovers agree with this? Do you think there is ANYTHING "evil" about the IDEA of zoos? I certainly don't! But I'm afraid that folks like this Director have done a bit too much studying things like the IDA lists, instead of just seeing them as 100% bogus.
 
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