White Oak Conservation Center 4 Species of Rhino

[taun]

ISIS lists Cincy at 1.2. The problem especially with Cincinnati is space. I think okapikpr mentioned they're focusing on husbandry with their male as is. IMO, it's a good idea, of course...but I don't know how well the other factors that play into it would work.

True, but is the stage where Cincinnati should start sharing their expertise with another collection and get two places breeding them. The captive population is doomed unless new blood is brought in, so why waste time and money if this was not an option?

 

[tigertiger]

True, but is the stage where Cincinnati should start sharing their expertise with another collection and get two places breeding them. The captive population is doomed unless new blood is brought in, so why waste time and money if this was not an option?

Personally, I think eventually they will be out of the US much the way the proboscis monkeys were but that's an opinion solely but that seems to be the case when only one US institution has luck breeding an animal and the rest don't.

I don't know if we're at that point yet where it needs new blood. Yes, it ALWAYS needs new blood, but logically. These creatures aren't solely breeding machines. In the case of Cincinnati, there's been numerous exhibit revamps on or near the Sumatran exhibit since the last birth and I do wish some other US institution would get themselves a breeding pair so numbers can grow. Other than SD, I don't know who would have the time/effort/money/space/resources etc. Thoughts?

 

[taun]

I don't know if we're at that point yet where it needs new blood. Yes, it ALWAYS needs new blood, but logically. These creatures aren't solely breeding machines. In the case of Cincinnati, there's been numerous exhibit revamps on or near the Sumatran exhibit since the last birth and I do wish some other US institution would get themselves a breeding pair so numbers can grow. Other than SD, I don't know who would have the time/effort/money/space/resources etc. Thoughts?

Cincy pair cannot continue for ever, plus if another Zoo got involved at least there would be a glimmer of hope for these in captivity.

Its has to be the right zoo with the right resources and they should be willing to look after them in a similar way to cincy.

 

[tigertiger]

Cincy pair cannot continue for ever, plus if another Zoo got involved at least there would be a glimmer of hope for these in captivity.

Its has to be the right zoo with the right resources and they should be willing to look after them in a similar way to cincy.

Very true but they can't also be expected to rotate animals around every time a pairing has been successful and start again the next time possible. These animals and these zoos can't take that stress and there's no reason they should be. Yes, the breeding and population growth for the animal is highly, highly, important but that shouldn't debase the quality of life that the living members have. i think Cincinnati and White Oak get that.

I don't think Cincinnati looks after the animals in any special way (if they do, I would LOVE to know how!); just that there efforts have been more successful than others. Cincinnati is one of the zoos with a stronger breeding background in general so perhaps that does help in their methods.

 

[taun]

Very true but they can't also be expected to rotate animals around every time a pairing has been successful and start again the next time possible. These animals and these zoos can't take that stress and there's no reason they should be. Yes, the breeding and population growth for the animal is highly, highly, important but that shouldn't debase the quality of life that the living members have. i think Cincinnati and White Oak get that.

I was not suggesting this animals are shipped around left right and centre, just that the current breeding pair, may only have one or two births before they won't be able too. Therefore with atleast another collection starts to try and breed them then it takes of the pressure on Cincy pair and also means a greater holding capacity for this species.

 

[tigertiger]

I was not suggesting this animals are shipped around left right and centre, just that the current breeding pair, may only have one or two births before they won't be able too. Therefore with atleast another collection starts to try and breed them then it takes of the pressure on Cincy pair and also means a greater holding capacity for this species.

Personally, I think the bigger problem at hand is that we (US, institutions with the Sumatrans, etc.) need more active partners and more members as a whole. The weight can't be on Cincinnati to repopulate a species the way it is.

As I said earlier though, I can't think of all too many zoos who haven't tried that would be capable of such a task, which is probably a part of the problem.

 

[Pygathrix]

I don't think Cincinnati looks after the animals in any special way (if they do, I would LOVE to know how!); just that there efforts have been more successful than others. Cincinnati is one of the zoos with a stronger breeding background in general so perhaps that does help in their methods.

I don't think this is true. At the very least the Cincinatti team have made great advances in terms of the reproductive biology of this species.

In my opinion it would take more than just another pair to successfully establish Sumatrans in captivity; the current low numbers aren't enough. However this was tried before although not in the most sensible way in the 80's with no success.

 

[tigertiger]

I don't think this is true. At the very least the Cincinatti team have made great advances in terms of the reproductive biology of this species.

In my opinion it would take more than just another pair to successfully establish Sumatrans in captivity; the current low numbers aren't enough. However this was tried before although not in the most sensible way in the 80's with no success.

As I don't actually know, how much has the UK and other European nations tried to get involved in the Sumatran game? Surely it hasn't been a US-only game, right?

 

[taun]

Personally, I think the bigger problem at hand is that we (US, institutions with the Sumatrans, etc.) need more active partners and more members as a whole. The weight can't be on Cincinnati to repopulate a species the way it is.

As I said earlier though, I can't think of all too many zoos who haven't tried that would be capable of such a task, which is probably a part of the problem.

Very true, but as you say there is not many out there that would be capable.

White Oak seems a good choice for a second, which enables easy transfer if the needs arise.

 

[reduakari]

I think many in this conversation missed the late 80s/early 90s (too young?). After years of negotiation, 20+ Sumatran rhinos were captured and brought to zoos in the US, England and Malaysia to start a captive breeding program. Within just a few years, most died. A variety of factors were involved (incorrect diets, older animals, lack of forest canopy and resultant eye problems, infectious diseases), but the bottom line was near-complete failure, with only the recent successes in Cincy to claim as positive results. The program is widely viewed by many conservation groups (and some of the zoos that were involved) as a fiasco--millions of dollars expended with little to show for it. It is very unlikely that the governments of Indonesia and Malaysia will permit another major ex situ effort involving US or European zoos, nor is there much appetite in the zoo community to repeat this unfortunate failure. Which is too bad, because this marvelous animal seems doomed to extinction in the ever-shrinking remnants of its wild range.

 

[taun]

I think many in this conversation missed the late 80s/early 90s (too young?). After years of negotiation, 20+ Sumatran rhinos were captured and brought to zoos in the US, England and Malaysia to start a captive breeding program. Within just a few years, most died. A variety of factors were involved (incorrect diets, older animals, lack of forest canopy and resultant eye problems, infectious diseases), but the bottom line was near-complete failure, with only the recent successes in Cincy to claim as positive results. The program is widely viewed by many conservation groups (and some of the zoos that were involved) as a fiasco--millions of dollars expended with little to show for it. It is very unlikely that the governments of Indonesia and Malaysia will permit another major ex situ effort involving US or European zoos, nor is there much appetite in the zoo community to repeat this unfortunate failure. Which is too bad, because this marvelous animal seems doomed to extinction in the ever-shrinking remnants of its wild range.

I don't think any one here has forgotten that, nor is anyone suggesting a capture on that size again. Also the last attempt was a rather blind stab at getting a program kick started, with Cincy experience and research done on the husbandry of this species the program could actually get off the ground this time (with a slow and steady approach).

 

[tigertiger]

It is very unlikely that the governments of Indonesia and Malaysia will permit another major ex situ effort involving US or European zoos, nor is there much appetite in the zoo community to repeat this unfortunate failure. Which is too bad, because this marvelous animal seems doomed to extinction in the ever-shrinking remnants of its wild range.

I fear you're absolutely right but truly hope you turn out wrong.

 

[snowleopard]

The sumatran rhino program almost 20 years ago was an unmitigated disaster, and I doubt that any program will ever be funded to such an extent again. After seeing sumatrans at both Cincinnati and White Oak I'm hoping for the best but fearing the worst.

 

[loxodonta]

The sumatran rhino program almost 20 years ago was an unmitigated disaster, and I doubt that any program will ever be funded to such an extent again. After seeing sumatrans at both Cincinnati and White Oak I'm hoping for the best but fearing the worst.

I agree but with new information and technology I think we would have a better chance. Cincinnati has made strides in sumatran rhino breeding and husbandry. Also with the success that White Oak has had with breeding rare species and their husbandry standards I believe it wouldn't be crazy to get Harry a female when he becomes sexually mature.

 

[tigertiger]

I agree but with new information and technology I think we would have a better chance. Cincinnati has made strides in sumatran rhino breeding and husbandry. Also with the success that White Oak has had with breeding rare species and their husbandry standards I believe it wouldn't be crazy to get Harry a female when he becomes sexually mature.

I think they only way there will be another serious 'whack' at it will be a step at a time. Introduce a female to Har when he's ready, baby, etc.