The AZA continuously failed over the past two decades in their mission to build sustainable zoo populations and conserve endangered species. With each redefinition of the "Species Survival Plan" (SSP) model, more and more species have found themselves excluded, unadvertised, disenfranchised, and ultimately ignored/forgotten. It affects all reaches of Animalia, but most notably in recent years North American primate and hoofstock populations have taken a massive blow. ~Thylo
Any way to make a list of these? Maybe a different thread, but it could prove valuable to members, I know that I would be interested.Some things to remember in all this doom and gloom:
-While there are less than there used to be, there are still some zoos and curators within the AZA who are actively working against the current way the AZA is operating and still maintaining many rare species - especially where non-mammals are concerned.
That is certainly the case. Places like Iguanaland, Sylvan Heights, and Wildlife World AZ are stocked with species that are absent or rare in the AZA.-While much diversity has been lost in the AZA, there's still lots of diversity to be found in many non-AZA zoos. If you want to see some different species, I suggest you check many of them out. Many species you perceive to be rare in the US from an AZA standpoint are actually quite common outside of it still.
What about Bronx Zoo?
-While there are less than there used to be, there are still some zoos and curators within the AZA who are actively working against the current way the AZA is operating and still maintaining many rare species - especially where non-mammals are concerned.
being an sanctuary is ok (even if conditions are far worse than your average zoo)
I will say that there was never a scenario where the number of sustainably managed zoo populations was going to increase. There was always going to be a decrease in biodiversity, simply because sustainable populations need room to grow and each program needs a minimum number of participating institutions (and square footage) to keep them going. But it never had to be this severe. This feels like they've just given up.
That is certainly the case. Places like Iguanaland, Sylvan Heights, and Wildlife World AZ are stocked with species that are absent or rare in the AZA.
The post that I was quoting was talking about zoos that are not AZA but have animals that would be rare in the AZA. I will quote it again:I hate to rain on your parade but the first two are specialist collections, which I assume most generic collections are not interested in. The latter is known for giving animals to Franklin Drive Thru Safari, which wouldn’t really paint a good picture for unaccredited zoos.
-While much diversity has been lost in the AZA, there's still lots of diversity to be found in many non-AZA zoos. If you want to see some different species, I suggest you check many of them out. Many species you perceive to be rare in the US from an AZA standpoint are actually quite common outside of it still.
Are there any other Zoos like the Bronx Zoo in terms of Biodiversity of the ones mentioned above?While the trend of zoo leadership gradually leaning towards less animal oriented people is unfortunate for collection planning, I can’t say I blame a governing board for choosing that direction. Major zoos especially need people that can handle finances, manage a large team, and schmooze with big donors. To paraphrase something a director who’s a genuine zoo nerd once told me, there are some zoo CEOs that couldn't tell the difference between a kudu and a bongo, but they’re good with money and are skilled at leading a large operation. It’s understandable why someone like that is appealing regardless of their animal knowledge, although ideally leaders could have a background in both business and animal husbandry.
What does surprise me however is to hear that so many curators are not just complicit, but pleased about the phase-out of rare species. At least from my perspective, working to build a sustainable population of an obscure species is something to be proud of. If we aren't challenging ourselves to learn more about breeding/working with a certain species in favor of maintaining the status quo, then what’s the point? I’ve seen zoo visitors be absolutely enamored by species they’ve never heard of before from weird small mammals to vibrant insects. That sums up my general philosophy of what modern zoos should be embracing; bring people in with lions, tigers and bears, keep them coming with aye-ayes, kagus and giant salamanders. Exposing people to species they’ve never heard of can go such a long way in provoking further curiosity about the natural world. If the AZA truly cares about biodiversity in the wild, they should feel obligated to care about biodiversity within their zoos.
Of course, we can’t have it all and cuts have to be made when appropriate. Obviously you can’t blame the AZA for phasing out sun bears or Asian black bears when both of their populations are entirely post-reproductive; not to mention that there are two other tropical bears that actually have a future in the U.S. and need support. On the other hand, giving up on the fishing cat SSP because there are “only” a dozen accredited holders? Incredibly unfortunate. That’s just one example of a program that could be revitalized through collaboration with the private sector and/or imports.
With all of that said, it wouldn't be fair to ignore the zoos which have been making an effort to maintain a diverse collection:
Bronx has already been spoken about both on this thread and countless times in the past for being the one major American zoo that has really stood firm against AZA recommended phase-outs and trends. Opening a nocturnal house in the big 2025 speaks volumes in this regard, especially with nocturnal prosimians being advertised as the headliners. Breheny and all of the curatorial staff have been great, but as noted above, they won’t be in charge forever and there are some question marks about what the zoo’s future will hold. Who knows how long the Wild Asia monorail has left and what will happen to all of those Asian ungulates if/when it ceases operation. For now however, the Bronx has been the single best American zoo when it comes to biodiversity by a decent margin.
While the San Diego parks have suffered some losses lately, they still maintain a level of diversity few zoos can rival, especially when it comes to the number of primates they've held onto. In the case of the zoo, there are just so many enclosures that need to be occupied to where they kinda have to go beyond what’s expected of other facilities. Even so, they’ve recently demonstrated a commitment to certain species that aren't doing especially well right now. They very easily could have been done with fishing cats and maned wolves after their last animals died out, but instead went through the effort of requiring them. The loss of numerous ungulate species at the Safari Park has been a big point of conversation in recent years and justifiably so. At the same time however, they did just acquire nilgiri tahr from a private ranch last year and have reinvigorated their efforts with several species that were previously being phased out (greater kudu, pere david’s deer) while bringing in new breeding males for most of their existing hoofstock herds.
There's also Nashville which has insisted on importing as many rare small carnivores as humanly possible in recent years: fanaloka (already twice bred), yellow-throated marten, ring-tailed vontsira, Javan ferret-badger, etc. They’ve most notably become a prolific breeder of banded palm civets which have started to be dispersed to other facilities. It’s just a crying shame they don’t choose to exhibit at least some of these oddities to give the zoo’s on-show collection something distinct – although we shall see if those douc langur rumors amount to anything… Future plans call for a massive investment in African hoofstock programs as well, which will go a long way for certain species.
Brookfield has also been good at maintaining biodiversity in recent years and making a real thing out of smaller, less flashy species. Most recently the zoo has made a significant investment in greater prairie-chickens, of which they are now the only holder of the subspecies the AZA and the only exhibitor of prairie-chickens in the country. They've also persisted with their pangolin breeding efforts to the point where they are looking to spread out the population to other facilities, as well as picking up a number of undervalued species over the last two years: black-and-rufous sengi, brush-tailed bettong, crested capuchin, yellow-billed stork, Raggiana bird-of-paradise, lots of waterfowl, tanagers, trushes, etc. Do I actually think they’re going to get forest buffalo as the new master plan suggests? No, but I still think it’s promising that it’s even being considered and it leaves to door open for cape buffalo to be added instead, another species in dire need of new holders.
There are other positive signs, such as the recently renewed interest in bush dogs, that keep me optimistic that there are enough directors and curators that still prioritize biodiversity and want to highlight species beyond ones that are already well off.
See, I get the desire to maintain rarities but I heard some really suspicious things about how WW ZnA is managed.The post that I was quoting was talking about zoos that are not AZA but have animals that would be rare in the AZA. I will quote it again:
While Iguanaland and Sylvan Heights are probably the poster children for non-AZA specialist collections, they are also undoubtedly some of the best collections of their kinds in North America. Of course AZA collections that focus on more generic lineups are not interested in these specialists. That's kind of the point, these are the facilities that AZA should be collaborating with, not shunning away from.
As for Wildlife World, the same applies, I was quoting about a non-AZA zoo that hold animals that are rare in AZA zoos; it's not meant to be a commentary on the quality of places that Wildlife World (or other non-AZA places) may sell animals to. Actually, that is one of the reasons even great non-AZA places like Iguanaland are not going to be AZA accredited - they do private sales.
The worst part of all of is that the AZA is aware that its species diversity is decreasing. ZIMS posted a blog post showing how AZA is losing managed species citing AZA’s own director of population management strategy.
-While much diversity has been lost in the AZA, there's still lots of diversity to be found in many non-AZA zoos. If you want to see some different species, I suggest you check many of them out.
The latter is known for giving animals to Franklin Drive Thru Safari, which wouldn’t really paint a good picture for unaccredited zoos.
As for Wildlife World, the same applies, I was quoting about a non-AZA zoo that hold animals that are rare in AZA zoos; it's not meant to be a commentary on the quality of places that Wildlife World (or other non-AZA places) may sell animals to.
While the trend of zoo leadership gradually leaning towards less animal oriented people is unfortunate for collection planning, I can’t say I blame a governing board for choosing that direction. Major zoos especially need people that can handle finances, manage a large team, and schmooze with big donors. To paraphrase something a director who’s a genuine zoo nerd once told me, there are some zoo CEOs that couldn't tell the difference between a kudu and a bongo, but they’re good with money and are skilled at leading a large operation. It’s understandable why someone like that is appealing regardless of their animal knowledge, although ideally leaders could have a background in both business and animal husbandry.
What does surprise me however is to hear that so many curators are not just complicit, but pleased about the phase-out of rare species. At least from my perspective, working to build a sustainable population of an obscure species is something to be proud of. If we aren't challenging ourselves to learn more about breeding/working with a certain species in favor of maintaining the status quo, then what’s the point? I’ve seen zoo visitors be absolutely enamored by species they’ve never heard of before from weird small mammals to vibrant insects. That sums up my general philosophy of what modern zoos should be embracing; bring people in with lions, tigers and bears, keep them coming with aye-ayes, kagus and giant salamanders. Exposing people to species they’ve never heard of can go such a long way in provoking further curiosity about the natural world. If the AZA truly cares about biodiversity in the wild, they should feel obligated to care about biodiversity within their zoos.
Of course, we can’t have it all and cuts have to be made when appropriate. Obviously you can’t blame the AZA for phasing out sun bears or Asian black bears when both of their populations are entirely post-reproductive; not to mention that there are two other tropical bears that actually have a future in the U.S. and need support. On the other hand, giving up on the fishing cat SSP because there are “only” a dozen accredited holders? Incredibly unfortunate. That’s just one example of a program that could be revitalized through collaboration with the private sector and/or imports.
With all of that said, it wouldn't be fair to ignore the zoos which have been making an effort to maintain a diverse collection:
Bronx has already been spoken about both on this thread and countless times in the past for being the one major American zoo that has really stood firm against AZA recommended phase-outs and trends. Opening a nocturnal house in the big 2025 speaks volumes in this regard, especially with nocturnal prosimians being advertised as the headliners. Breheny and all of the curatorial staff have been great, but as noted above, they won’t be in charge forever and there are some question marks about what the zoo’s future will hold. Who knows how long the Wild Asia monorail has left and what will happen to all of those Asian ungulates if/when it ceases operation. For now however, the Bronx has been the single best American zoo when it comes to biodiversity by a decent margin.
While the San Diego parks have suffered some losses lately, they still maintain a level of diversity few zoos can rival, especially when it comes to the number of primates they've held onto. In the case of the zoo, there are just so many enclosures that need to be occupied to where they kinda have to go beyond what’s expected of other facilities. Even so, they’ve recently demonstrated a commitment to certain species that aren't doing especially well right now. They very easily could have been done with fishing cats and maned wolves after their last animals died out, but instead went through the effort of requiring them. The loss of numerous ungulate species at the Safari Park has been a big point of conversation in recent years and justifiably so. At the same time however, they did just acquire nilgiri tahr from a private ranch last year and have reinvigorated their efforts with several species that were previously being phased out (greater kudu, pere david’s deer) while bringing in new breeding males for most of their existing hoofstock herds.
There's also Nashville which has insisted on importing as many rare small carnivores as humanly possible in recent years: fanaloka (already twice bred), yellow-throated marten, ring-tailed vontsira, Javan ferret-badger, etc. They’ve most notably become a prolific breeder of banded palm civets which have started to be dispersed to other facilities. It’s just a crying shame they don’t choose to exhibit at least some of these oddities to give the zoo’s on-show collection something distinct – although we shall see if those douc langur rumors amount to anything… Future plans call for a massive investment in African hoofstock programs as well, which will go a long way for certain species.
Brookfield has also been good at maintaining biodiversity in recent years and making a real thing out of smaller, less flashy species. Most recently the zoo has made a significant investment in greater prairie-chickens, of which they are now the only holder of the subspecies the AZA and the only exhibitor of prairie-chickens in the country. They've also persisted with their pangolin breeding efforts to the point where they are looking to spread out the population to other facilities, as well as picking up a number of undervalued species over the last two years: black-and-rufous sengi, brush-tailed bettong, crested capuchin, yellow-billed stork, Raggiana bird-of-paradise, lots of waterfowl, tanagers, trushes, etc. Do I actually think they’re going to get forest buffalo as the new master plan suggests? No, but I still think it’s promising that it’s even being considered and it leaves to door open for cape buffalo to be added instead, another species in dire need of new holders.
There are other positive signs, such as the recently renewed interest in bush dogs, that keep me optimistic that there are enough directors and curators that still prioritize biodiversity and want to highlight species beyond ones that are already well off.
So where's Steve Metzler now?One slight correction: Fossil Rim does display their Attwater's Prairie-Chickens. You are correct in that, to my knowledge, Brookfield is the only zoo displaying the pinnatus subspecies.
The Fishing Cat phase-out decision I find particularly frustrating because there are plenty of animals available to bring in from European zoos. There is no reason an internationally collaborated program cannot be managed. Bronx and San Diego's Geladas are managed as part of EAZA's EEP for the species, for instance.
San Diego is an interesting case. They forced out Steve Metzler, hired non-zoo/animal people to run the organization, and started phasing out hoofstock like crazy before taking a sudden u-turn under a new curator at the safari park and doubling-back. The addition of Nilgiri Tahr is fantastic, as is the renewed interest in Greater Kudu, Pere David's Deer, and some others. I could be mistaken as it's been a couple of years since I've heard any updates, but I believe most of the park's deer remained on the chopping block other than the aforementioned species. Most of the Barasingha herd was shipped out of AZA entirely a few years ago, a big blow to that struggling program. I believe they no longer are breeding Bactrian Deer either, another particularly big blow for a species with such few holders but a very stable population compared to most species. At least they sent their remaining breeding-aged Gaur to Bronx instead of outside the AZA. I think they're abandoning Aoudad, but I've heard they're doubling-down on Nubian Ibex. It's a real mixed-bag there and I'm optimistic about the future of the collection.
You're absolutely right about zoo organizations often needing a businessman/woman in a position of authority to keep the places running. I don't refute that at all. I just don't see why that has to come at the expense of the collections. Those individuals simply should not be put in charge of managing the living collection then. Let someone else do that, someone who cares and knows what the hell they're talking about.
~Thylo
Detroit's Former male lion, Simba has only been at Detroit (prior to great plains) and has only ever had one cub, which now resides at Sacramento. He is now at Great Plains.
Edit- Also he wasn't imported from sudan, he came from to royal family from Qatar to make his origin more fuzzy.
seemingly every type of macaque except for Japanese Macaques
While the trend of zoo leadership gradually leaning towards less animal oriented people is unfortunate for collection planning, I can’t say I blame a governing board for choosing that direction. Major zoos especially need people that can handle finances, manage a large team, and schmooze with big donors. To paraphrase something a director who’s a genuine zoo nerd once told me, there are some zoo CEOs that couldn't tell the difference between a kudu and a bongo, but they’re good with money and are skilled at leading a large operation. It’s understandable why someone like that is appealing regardless of their animal knowledge, although ideally leaders could have a background in both business and animal husbandry.
So where's Steve Metzler now?
Edit: Googled it and he's now with Colossal Biosciences.
Oh no...
So where's Steve Metzler now?
Edit: Googled it and he's now with Colossal Biosciences.
Oh no...
To add to the general conversation at hand, in many cases subspecies are no longer being managed to pure lines for sake of genetic diversity. It's becoming a real pitfall trap that is significantly starting to impact managed populations. I am aware of species where under current guidelines literally half the population is not recommended to breed because of unknown parentage. There is a strong possibility this will bottleneck these populations if the genetically valuable pairings don't work out. In the same vein there is a significant push to always know parentage for sake of genetic diversity, which has resulted in attempted crackdown on unmanaged breeding flocks. However, in many cases the facilities propping up these populations are the ones not trying to force pairings and letting flocks do their thing. I am genuinely concerned for the sustainability of numerous bird programs if this attempted "forced pairing" continues.
I also find it somewhat hypocritical to be pushing for genetic diversity when they continue to pursue breeding Takin, Polar Bear, and California Condor, all of whom have rather limited founders. I'm not saying they shouldn't breed them, but rather why crunch some species unnecessarily when you're openly supporting species that are more limited?
And how many of these two dozen mammal species and three dozen bird species will be endangered? And how many of these species will specifically depend on American zoos for their preservation?I don't really see the situation getting any better for US zoos. We're on a fast-track to every AZA zoo keeping the same selection of two dozen mammals, three dozen birds, 10 fish, etc.
I'm going to disobey your direct orders and ask what is the issue with Aldabrachelys?do not get me started on Aldabrachelys...
The Japanese macaque population has also declined significantly. I know that a few holders have even temporarily halted breeding.every type of macaque except for Japanese Macaques
Certain clades are still losing diversity in European zoos, but those trends are just off-offset as a whole by other clades, typically those of smaller mammals. Many of the species that balance the trends are also coming from Australian zoos, so the acquisition of those species poses far less conservation value than does maintaining the species that are being phased out.My thread showed how fewer and fewer species were being maintained in AZA collections, while his thread had a ton of data that illustrated how European zoos had stable mammal populations. Many were in fact thriving and there hasn't been a list of mass phase-outs as there has been in North America. It's immensely frustrating to see the U.S. zoos become more homogenized, while in Europe there's still so much rich diversity and that has been maintained right up to the present day.
The Bronx Zoo is a given, and so are the Nashville (South American lizards, small carnivores, etcetera) and San Diego (less so now than they used to) zoos to a lesser extent. The Brookfield Zoo has demonstrated an incredible commitment to their pangolin population, and they've acquired a few other notable species in recent years too. There are lots of zoos that have been doing what they want in terms of reptiles; among them, the Fort Worth, Sedgwick County, and Dallas zoos have also been diversifying their bird collections. Zoo Miami is still working with duikers, giant eland, and a few other species, although their hoofstock collection is clearly declining overall. The Detroit, Houston, San Antonio, and Memphis zoos are working with some species against recommendations, as well.Any way to make a list of these? Maybe a different thread, but it could prove valuable to members, I know that I would be interested.
I am hopeful that Keith Lovett was hired from the Buttonwood Park Zoo to ensure that the Bronx Zoo will continue their role of fighting the Association of Zoos and Aquariums on many species, whether as Breheny’s successor or continuing in his current position. He greatly diversified the New Bedford zoo’s collection, acquiring seven small primates in his tenure there as well as tens of waterfowl species so he clearly has a passion for housing uncommon animals.That said, Jim won't be director forever and these curators won't be in place forever. I have to say I am nervous for what comes after, but hopefully the WCS has set such a system in place where genuine zoo and animal-nerds continue to drive the collection planning.
What has Buttonwood Park Zoo done so far?And how many of these two dozen mammal species and three dozen bird species will be endangered? And how many of these species will specifically depend on American zoos for their preservation?
I'm going to disobey your direct orders and ask what is the issue with Aldabrachelys?
The Japanese macaque population has also declined significantly. I know that a few holders have even temporarily halted breeding.
Certain clades are still losing diversity in European zoos, but those trends are just off-offset as a whole by other clades, typically those of smaller mammals. Many of the species that balance the trends are also coming from Australian zoos, so the acquisition of those species poses far less conservation value than does maintaining the species that are being phased out.
The Bronx Zoo is a given, and so are the Nashville (South American lizards, small carnivores, etcetera) and San Diego (less so now than they used to) zoos to a lesser extent. The Brookfield Zoo has demonstrated an incredible commitment to their pangolin population, and they've acquired a few other notable species in recent years too. There are lots of zoos that have been doing what they want in terms of reptiles; among them, the Fort Worth, Sedgwick County, and Dallas zoos have also been diversifying their bird collections. Zoo Miami is still working with duikers, giant eland, and a few other species, although their hoofstock collection is clearly declining overall. The Detroit, Houston, San Antonio, and Memphis zoos are working with some species against recommendations, as well.
I am hopeful that Keith Lovett was hired from the Buttonwood Park Zoo to ensure that the Bronx Zoo will continue their role of fighting the Association of Zoos and Aquariums on many species, whether as Breheny’s successor or continuing in his current position. He greatly diversified the New Bedford zoo’s collection, acquiring seven small primates in his tenure there as well as tens of waterfowl species so he clearly has a passion for housing uncommon animals.