A Fox's got my babies...

i have read this story on several different news sites and the sad thing is reading all the comments by people.

a one in a million attack like this creates a knee jerk reaction of "kill all foxes now".
 
I just think it all sounds a bit suspicious myself. It's all a bit Azaria Chamberlain.

I think a story will eventually come out stating that it wasn't actually a fox at all.
 
This happened in the UK, where foxes frequently live in backyards and under houses. I can certainly see that happening. I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often.

:p

Hix
 
Blackduiker

It's surprising that it doesn't happen here in the U.S. more often with our Coyotes. By the way, have you ever seen a rabid fox on the attack? It's not pretty. And as for the comment about Azaria Chamberlain, remember, her mother Lindy was exonerated. Untamed and Uncut: Rabid Fox Attacks Man : Video : Animal Planet :eek:

A wild animal the size of a fox, or a domestic one even, is quite capable of the unexpected. As a young man, a mother house cat terrorized my mom and I for about an hour. This, after I had found her kitten in my backyard alone and carried it inside. Hearing the meows of her kitten sent that desperate mother into a rage, trying to get into our house while calling back to it. She literally circled the house listening for wherever her kitten could be heard, jumping onto window screens and smashing into the backdoor many times. It might sound humorous to you reading this now, but we were quite terrified. Especially my mom.

On another occasion, as a newlywed, my wife and I were stunned by another unprovoked crazed house cat just outside the bedroom window of our first apartment. Being the brave protector of my new bride, I decided I was going to take charge of the situation and drive off this menace. Going outside with my trusty broom in hand, I located the terror under my car, crouched and standing its ground. With several passes of the broom in its direction, and a few other objects thrown at it, the cat only became more enraged with frightening hisses and glaring teeth. Even poking at it with my broom didn't make this fearsome foe budge in the slightest. As a matter of fact, I'm quite convinced that if I hadn't made a wise and hasty retreat after the 10-15 minute standoff, I'm almost certain I would have been attacked by this furball of fury. :eek:
 
Blackduiker - there's no rabies in the UK, so that theory is out.

Foxes are usually a tad more timid than a feral cat. Also, Foxes will have a different tooth position/size & jaw structure to a cat or a dog.

I'm not sure about all of you, but if I had small babies with foxes living in my backyard, I sure as heck would not be leaving my door open! :eek:
 
FriendOfTheZoo said:
I just think it all sounds a bit suspicious myself. It's all a bit Azaria Chamberlain.

I think a story will eventually come out stating that it wasn't actually a fox at all.
Click to expand...

Azaria was killed by a Dingo - not a fox!

The media clouded the issue for years but eventually the truth won out.

A fox would certainly be game enough to have a go.

Kill all foxes? In Australia - yes! Starting with the one that killed my sole Black Swan cygnet last night.
 
Knee jerk reactions are just that as for this alleged fox attack I could see it happening as I live very close to the country side and have foxes visit my back garden on a regular basic, the only way I think that fox would of alledegedly attacked those children is if it was extremely hungry.
Oh and on about knee jerk reactions why don't we put all Staffordshire Bullterriers (pets) down as these attack children on a vastly more regular basic then a fox
 
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Blackduiker

FriendOfTheZoo said:
Blackduiker - there's no rabies in the UK, so that theory is out.

Foxes are usually a tad more timid than a feral cat. Also, Foxes will have a different tooth position/size & jaw structure to a cat or a dog.

I'm not sure about all of you, but if I had small babies with foxes living in my backyard, I sure as heck would not be leaving my door open! :eek:
Click to expand...

If foxes are "a tad more timid than a feral cat" and "I think a story will eventually come out stating that it wasn't actually a fox at all" why now the statement about, and concern over leaving doors open? Babies or not. And rabies in the UK maybe not, but surely, as in all lands, possibly severe hunger leading a wild animal to take desperate measures. There are cases also of perfectly gentle and loyal pets, living in households for years, then attacking the very hands that feed them. Never underestimate the behavior of animals; especially wild ones. Even foxes FriendOfTheZoo. :confused:
 
FriendoftheZoo said:
Foxes will have a different tooth position/size & jaw structure to a cat or a dog.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure what this has to do with the case in point.

And LOL at Adrian1963's editing!

:p

Hix
 
FriendOfTheZoo said:
I just think it all sounds a bit suspicious myself.
I think a story will eventually come out stating that it wasn't actually a fox at all.
Click to expand...

I am a little perplexed by this too. In the UK it is early summer now, a time when foxes traditionally can find plenty to eat, even Urban ones, in the form of young birds, small mammals etc as well as, for city-living ones, their other regular sources of urban/scavenged food.

Of course a vixen still feeding cubs would be under some pressure to provide additional rations, but I still find it hard to accept a Fox, normally very nervous creatures with an innate fear of being trapped, willingly entering a house, climbing stairs and arriving in the bedroom. If it then inflicted the injuries on the babies as described I can only presume it felt trapped and acted out of fear but there's no description of that or it rushing to escape from the house- the mother indicated it was just 'there in the room'.

It would be easy to blame a fox if there are plenty in the vicinity, but if it is true its an example of very uncharacteristic behaviour indeed.
 
The Fox tooth/jaw placement was to do with the fact that they're different to a dog/cat's, and the truth will come out if it wasn't a fox.

How high can foxes jump? Could they jump into a cot? Could they really drag not one, but 2 separate 9 month old babies out of said cot? Don't they usually feed on much smaller prey like chicken/small cat size? 9 month old babies are generally around the 6-8kg mark.

And I said that I think people with known foxes in the area, should keep their doors closed, because wildlife is better kept OUTDOORS rather than letting all manner of animals able to get into your house.

I would never underestimate a wild animal - not that silly.

It's just common sense isn't it? Although commonsense seems to be not so common anymore.

Oh and I don't know where you live, but Staffordshire Bull Terriers don't eat people in Australia. Ban the deed not the breed.
 
Blackduiker

And by the way FriendOfTheZoo, it's no longer true that "there's no rabies in the UK." Bat rabies in the United Kingdom -- Smith et al. 330 (7490): 491 -- BMJ
Rabies in the UK? - 11 October 2003 - New Scientist

And no, I definitely do not believe in killing all foxes as a knee jerk reaction. Hopefully this mother is not found guilty of some cruel offense against her children, though I don't totally rule out that possibility either. But what I do take offense to, is the continued insensitivity towards the Azaria Chamberlain case so many years after-the-fact, and the mockery of a child's death, proven to be from the attack of a animal, and not her mother. :(
 
I never once said that Lindy Chamberlin killed her baby, nor did I say this mother did anything to her babies. I personally think it might have been another animal, but just can't imagine a fox of all creatures doing this.

Also, bat lyssavirus virus is not rabies. Close, but no cigar.

Oh and the New Scientist link would not open for me.
 
I didn't say Staffordshire Bull Terriers eat people I saId they attack children (FACT) but on the point of the alleged fox attack.
If it got into the house through an open door then I think any noise that the fox is not used to would in fact scare the animal if this is the case if the children started to cry and scream (which nobody as mentioned on here or anywhere else) then the fox would surely have deserted the area as fast as it could.
 
Blackduiker

So then the title to this thread, "A Fox's got my babies..." a thread started and named by you, is not a play on Ms. Chamberlain's "a Dingo's got my baby" FriendOfTheZoo? Okay, I'll take your word for it. But according to this UK link, the last reported case for some 100 years back in 2002, was considered "rabies": Rabies Immunisation | Health | Patient UK

And though they mention it being the last case of "rabies" reported, and generally carried by "foxes" who really is able to say what's out there in the countryside? So once again, I contend we're still possibly looking at "rabies" in the UK. And I suggest you keep trying the New Scientist link. :)
 
FriendOfTheZoo said:
Could they really drag not one, but 2 separate 9 month old babies out of said cot?
Click to expand...

I don't think the fox was supposed to have lifted the babies out- only to have attacked/chewed at their faces.

The other unusual aspect of this is that Foxes do not normally enter inhabited houses(at least not in the UK)
 
FriendOfTheZoo said:
The Fox tooth/jaw placement was to do with the fact that they're different to a dog/cat's, and the truth will come out if it wasn't a fox.

How high can foxes jump? Could they jump into a cot?
Click to expand...

Foxes can leap pretty high. There is a six foot fence at the bottom of my garden and, admittedly when persued by my dog, the trespassing fox can jump up and scrabble over it easily. Also then can scrabble/jump onto the shed roof, which is about eight/nine foot high. I'd say they're comparable to a German Shepherd for agility, if not better.
 
Another thing I have been thinking about this story - foxes have a very distinct, STRONG odour. The mother said in the article that the first thing she saw was the blood, so she turned on the light, and saw the fox.

A possible scenario is that the pet dog has done it, they don't want their pet destroyed, so made up the fox story.
 
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