A general Observation

G

garyjp

Well-Known Member
10+ year member
I would just like to say that I enjoy reading many of the threads about the various collections up and down the UK.I like the different opinions on animal husbandary.And i'm pretty sure there are many owners ,zoo keepers ,hobbyists and enthusiasts on here who are all more qualified than me on these subjects.
But it seems to me there are a small number of collections that seem to bring the worst out in people and the comments are neither pleasant or constructive and actually what really comes across from the bitterness of some comments is pure jealousy.
Personally I would not like to read ****** sarcastic comments as i think it de values what is a wonderful site for like minded people - who after all enjoy going to the Zoo.
 
there are really only two collections in the UK which result in thread wars, South Lakes and Twycross.

In the case of South Lakes it is due to the general feeling (and I'm trying to put this nicely) that the owner and his management of the collection are ham-fisted, coupled with his somewhat unique methods of dealing with the public and media. I think most members try to be reasonable when discussing South Lakes topics but a few just cannot help themselves and go too far.

In the case of Twycross thread breakdowns, the fault lies almost entirely at the feet of two particular members.

For both zoos, you can almost lay bets that any new thread will quickly degenerate into a mess of deletions and post modifications, often followed by locking. It is unfortunate but there it is. A number of people feel the same way about it as yourself really, because it would be nice if everyone would just get along. Or at least if they could simply discuss, not rant!

Other than the situation with those two zoos, Zoochat in general is an extremely placid and friendly forum. Most people get along famously, and most are happy to agree to disagree. Some forums I have been on in the past (and left!) seemed to just attract hordes of nutters whose only purpose is to start fights.


One last thing regarding your post, though, I always find it strange when "jealousy" is brought up as a reason for wars on Zoochat threads. What are the posters supposed to be jealous about exactly? That they don't own a zoo themselves? That seems a bit of a stretch. I don't like Adam Sandler but it isn't because I'm jealous that I'm not a movie actor - I just don't like him. I think David Gill (of South Lakes) is a dangerous buffoon, but it isn't because I'm jealous of him - I just think he is a dangerous buffoon because I know a lot about his past activities in Australia and the UK.
 
Chlidonias said:
I always find it strange when "jealousy" is brought up as a reason for wars on Zoochat threads. What are the posters supposed to be jealous about exactly? That they don't own a zoo themselves?
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just for the record. With firsthand involvement in Zoos in the past, I can't imagine anything I'd like to do less than own or run a Zoo!:)

I also think that comments on here are selective and do largely reflect the status, standards and happenings at the collections they refer to. For example, virtually nothing but high praise is ever given of somewhere like the Cotswold Wildlife Park, which reflects their standard of operation. Only Zoos that deserve it(we all know which they are) normally get critical responses.
 
I agree with your dismay at some of the antics on internet forums. I love the cut and thrust of a good discussion with people who can form a lucid argument without resorting to childishness and name calling, thats when I bow out. I dont have to agree with everyone and everyone doesnt have to agree with me and I'm often educated in specific areas by the knowledgeable people on here, but some, ah some people just want to press your buttons and I'll admit that occasionally I want to rise to it, I dont normally unless it's something truely outrageous and I feel I have to try and stop it or correct it. This does not mean that I am not a fan of occasional silliness and buffoonary!! my attempts to get Clouded Leopards for Chester Zoo are exactly that (but secrectly if I could get away with buying some I bloody would).
welcome and I look forward to some discussion!
 
Chlidonias said:
One last thing regarding your post, though, I always find it strange when "jealousy" is brought up as a reason for wars on Zoochat threads. What are the posters supposed to be jealous about exactly? That they don't own a zoo themselves? That seems a bit of a stretch. I don't like Adam Sandler but it isn't because I'm jealous that I'm not a movie actor - I just don't like him. I think David Gill (of South Lakes) is a dangerous buffoon, but it isn't because I'm jealous of him - I just think he is a dangerous buffoon because I know a lot about his past activities in Australia and the UK.
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Indeed; much as the occasional argument is indeed endemic to internet forums (and human discourse as a whole!) I completely disagree with the assumption by garyjp that the root cause of any criticism and vitriol aimed at zoological collections must be jealousy.

It's also somewhat amusing considering the fact that back when he was active on this site, David Gill loved to accuse us of being jealous of him :p

karoocheetah said:
This does not mean that I am not a fan of occasional silliness and buffoonary!! my attempts to get Clouded Leopards for Chester Zoo are exactly that (but secrectly if I could get away with buying some I bloody would).
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Very true; a lot of the "argument" on this site is comprised of good old-fashioned taking the piss out of one another and injokes - case in point being the Lucky Bastard Award, originating from my unconscious tendency to use the phrase "lucky bastard" when someone saw a particularly nice species...... once this was pointed out, it was made official and other people started using the phrase ;)

We both know of course, Debs, that were you to buy a cloudie you would be honour-bound to purchase a Diard's Clouded!
 
Chlidonias said:
there are really only two collections in the UK which result in thread wars, South Lakes and Twycross

In the case of Twycross thread breakdowns, the fault lies almost entirely at the feet of two particular members.
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Well perhaps the truth hurts on here with some members, or is it because two members do not wish to just go with the flow. I thought this zoochat was here to discuss things zoo related, have you ever been to Twycross, what did you think of it?
 
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I don't know about Chlidonias, but I've certainly been to Twycross - and, I suspect, more recently than you have. I quite liked it, and didn't think it was nearly as bad as I feared it would be, though it did have quite a lot of issues. I suppose the fact I feared it would be bad meant I was pleasantly surprised :p

I believe that in the intervening time it *has* declined somewhat but I'm told by individuals whose opinion I trust that there are definite signs of improvement now.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
I don't know about Chlidonias, but I've certainly been to Twycross - and, I suspect, more recently than you have. I quite liked it, and didn't think it was nearly as bad as I feared it would be, though it did have quite a lot of issues. I suppose the fact I feared it would be bad meant I was pleasantly surprised :p

I believe that in the intervening time it *has* declined somewhat but I'm told by individuals whose opinion I trust that there are definite signs of improvement now.
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It is 18 months since I was last there, I used to go regularly, several times a year at one time in happier days.
 
I think that, in general, Zoochat is a pretty well-manered forum. There are those who occasionally post a little oafishly, and there are others who respond to implied criticism by going nuclear. But I do not see it as being a forum in which one needs to feel trepidatious about the levels of vitriol and anger (and when, occasionally, those levels do rise, the moderators are pretty quick to intervene). It depresses me, a little, when people are excessively critical of institutions that are trying to do the right thing, but to each their own....

And I rather like disagreeing with people: certainly, if the world was composed only of Bruce Springsteen fans with a penchant for slightly old-fashioned zoos and a fondness for hyenas, I think I would probably go mad.

What I do find offensive here - if that isn't too melodramatic a word - are those who post without thinking, clogging up threads and diminishing the overall quality of the site. And those who don't make the effort to post coherently and intelligently - which is not the same as those whose spelling is not brilliant, or whose ability with words, or with English words is not perfect.
 
This forum is extremely well run and most of the members are very well behaved, it's like every other forum where you will get the odd one's who just like to disagree or will not be corrected but without these guys/girls life would be so boring.
 
I stopped being a regular user of zoochat about 6 months ago and have only recently returned as I couldn't stand the childishness of people who were at an age to know better and I found it was upsetting me. I decided the Internet should not be allowed to impinge on my everyday emotions so I took a break from zoochat.

I think there has been an improvement whilst I was away, though there are still things that grate I don't let it get to me.

Though I have found myself shouting 'don't be so childish' at someone's toys out of the pram post recently.

I now have no hesitation reporting something I don't like (as in feel is inappropriate, NOT an arguement I disagree with), and have done so recently.
 
Childonias,
I agree with you re South Lakes & Twycross there is also another one or two that receive spiteful comments too.
Tea Loving Dave,Chilonias & Pertinax
Jealousy - perhaps replace with envy not that there is a great deal of difference. I imagine Zoochatters could be put into two groups those that own or work in zoos (past and present) and the other my group who could only dream of that day. I imagine I like alot of the other zoo owner dreamers have a utopian zoo in mind where we swan around and everything in the world is rosey (zoo world that is). That also does not mean our days are filled with bitterness angry at the world why we are not the next Aspinall or Durrell either.
KarooCheetah
I like you enjoy the cut and thrust of a good debate as well as the silliness it brings in as well but like you I get fed up with the name calling.

So in conclusion long may our debates, disagreements,observations, mickey taking and all keep going but perhaps if we are going to rant and rave a whole new post could be put up for that instead of letting the interesting stuff getting hijacked.
 
Just an observation, it has not gone unnoticed that when myself and my fellow scribe Jane Doe are in performance on Zoochat the viewing figures are always high, they rise considerably when we are on. I understand that a website like this survives by advertising and gets paid every time a member or guest visits. Therefore I would consider it fair to suggest that me and Miss Doe are very good for business as far as Zoo Chat is concerned. I think certain members should remember this when they criticise, bully and ridicule the two members who do more for zoochat than anyone else.
 
It's not just South Lakes or Twycross which can be guaranteed to spark lively arguments. Whenever the name 'Damian Aspinall' crops up in a thread, we can be assured of, shall we say, passionate debate.
 
Animal Friendly said:
Just an observation, it has not gone unnoticed that when myself and my fellow scribe Jane Doe are in performance on Zoochat the viewing figures are always high, they rise considerably when we are on. I understand that a website like this survives by advertising and gets paid every time a member or guest visits. Therefore I would consider it fair to suggest that me and Miss Doe are very good for business as far as Zoo Chat is concerned. I think certain members should remember this when they criticise, bully and ridicule the two members who do more for zoochat than anyone else.
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Umm ... no.
 
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