"a zoo in my luggage" smuggling attempt

So you enjoy being called a little ankle biter full of sexual frustration? How peculiar; a trip to the local vet (or shrink) might ease your pain for good.
And what's with the constant "sun" terms of endearment? Desperate sun worshiper, or just not clever enough to come up with other poncy pet names?
 
I'm busy at work, so just teasing you along to be honest matey.


on a serious note though, do you know anything about tortoises? if you do send me a pm (hope i'm not barking up the wrong tree here) ...
 
I totally get what Javan Rhino and AgileGibbon are suggesting - I don't know how it would actually work in reality but never mind - however I do have a question regarding this comment:
AgileGibbon said:
(Bredls Python is a prime example of a snake that needs a tiny tank)
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why should this particular species need a tiny tank, and indeed why would anyone deliberately aim on keeping a python in a tiny tank?
 
I think AgileGibbon is refering to the case that young Bredls Pythons can be quite nervous and need sufficient hiding places. As adults can be up to 2.5 m I wouldn't put them in a tiny tank at all.
 
Chlidonias said:
I totally get what Javan Rhino and AgileGibbon are suggesting - I don't know how it would actually work in reality but never mind - however I do have a question regarding this comment:

why should this particular species need a tiny tank, and indeed why would anyone deliberately aim on keeping a python in a tiny tank?
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I don't think it was literally a case of 'tiny' tank - just 'tiny' in comparison to other python species - many species (and not just reptiles) get very stressed in larger enclosures due to the strains of protecting a 'too-large' territory.
 
Javan Rhino said:
I don't think it was literally a case of 'tiny' tank - just 'tiny' in comparison to other python species - many species (and not just reptiles) get very stressed in larger enclosures due to the strains of protecting a 'too-large' territory.
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In both avicultural world as with exotic mammal keepers I've heard this argument very often. Usually to defend why the enclosure for the birds is way too small. The most common example in the avicultural world are Senegal Parrots, they wouldn't breed in cages bigger then 1 m3, they would drop themselves from high perches and instead of flying down and in this way hurt themselves etc etc etc. I can tell you that in all cases that I encountered this was ********.
No clue how this is with reptiles as my hands-on experience with them is limited, but I have the feeling it will be similar. It's just a case of the right decoration of the enclosure.
 
DDcorvus said:
In both avicultural world as with exotic mammal keepers I've heard this argument very often. Usually to defend why the enclosure for the birds is way too small. The most common example in the avicultural world are Senegal Parrots, they wouldn't breed in cages bigger then 1 m3, they would drop themselves from high perches and instead of flying down and in this way hurt themselves etc etc etc. I can tell you that in all cases that I encountered this was ********.
No clue how this is with reptiles as my hands-on experience with them is limited, but I have the feeling it will be similar. It's just a case of the right decoration of the enclosure.
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I don't know the situation for birds, but for leopard geckos and others this is true.
From working in a reptile shop, AG has seen an example of a young Bredls Python that refused to eat because its tank was too big. The only technique that got it eating again was to keep it warm in a dark cupboard inside one of those little boxes you get live bugs in. In the wild, a Bredls Python will find a tiny space and wedge itself inside for long periods of time. Once the Python gets bigger, (and thus able to handle a bigger space) it can be transferred back to its original larger tank.
 
Actually, snake hatchlings of most python species are very secretive because they make a great meal for so many other creatures. Put them in a large tank and they usually are not seen except at night. Keeping them in a small tank is acceptable as they are only using a small space. As they get larger their accomodation needs to grow proportionatly.

Never kept large/giant pythons, so don't know for sure if the same is true for their hatchlings, but I would assume it is similar, just on a greater scale.

:p

Hix
 
Another unbelievable smuggling attempt out of Thailand

and once again.....
Man caught with baby leopards in suitcase - Totaltravel
A man whose luggage contained a baby bear, a pair of panthers, two leopards and some monkeys was arrested as he tried to smuggle the live animals out of Thailand, police said today.

Noor Mahmoodr, a 36-year-old citizen of the United Arab Emirates, was detained soon after midnight by undercover officers at a Bangkok airport with the animals - all aged under two months - in his cases.

The man, who was trying to get the creatures onto a first-class flight to Dubai from Suvarnabhumi airport, was charged with smuggling endangered species out of Thailand, Colonel Kiattipong Khawsamang of the Nature Crime Police told AFP.

He said one of the bags had been abandoned in an airport lounge because the animals were being too noisy.

"This is a very unusual case and a very large one so we really applaud the Thai police for going after them as strongly as they did," said Roy Schlieben of wildlife protection group FREELAND, whose staff were present at the arrest.

Several people are thought to be involved and police investigations are under way into a wider network of traffickers, Schlieben said. The animals were taken into the care of local veterinarians.

"There's a pretty strong likelihood that some of them wouldn't have survived the flight in the condition they were in," he told AFP.

"The fact they were transported alive would indicate the person at the other end wanted to keep them in their residence or some sort of zoo, or maybe even breed them."

If convicted, Mahmoodr could face up to four years in jail and a 40,000 baht (NZ$1666) fine, Kiattipong said.
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good to see what an enormous fine he faces! :rolleyes:
 
Hey guys, I just stumbled on this particular thread.

I posted this question on another thread in the Spain forum, but there does not get as much traffic as this thread it seems. ;)

So here goes: I have a perception that the illegally wild-caught animals are kept in small cages and under pretty horrible conditions before sale. But once a really expensive parrot, say, is sold, it actually has a pretty pampered life. I just cannot imagine someone paying $40,000 for a parrot and mis-treating it. Is this true?
 
Further developments in the Thai "bear in a suitcase" smuggling story:

Bangkokpost.com

:( :( :(

Hix
 
thought I'd put this article in this thread as it is where it stems from, and it also relates to some earlier comments in the thread
Protected species found on sale in Thai markets | Conservation | The Earth Times
16 June 2011

Endangered species from Madagascar are being sold in Thailand and exported by Thai dealers says TRAFFIC, the wildlife trade monitoring network.

TRAFFIC surveyed sales for 15 days in Bangkok and eight of Thailand's provinces and found 591 Madagascan reptiles and amphibians available on sale.

TRAFFIC's largest cause for concern was over the large numbers of Madagascan chameleons for sale. TRAFFIC found 16 species represented among the 233 chameleons they found on sale in shops, markets and the homes of traders who sell on the internet. At least one species, the Antsingy Leaf Chameleon (Brookesia perarmataI), is protected by the CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora), which bans its sale.

It is legal to trade in some chameleon species from Madagascar but the reporters found that most -- around 78 percent -- that had been imported to Thailand were claimed to have been captive bred in Kazakhstan or re-exported from Lebanon. TRAFFIC says that records show that no chameleons have been imported into Kazakhstan. Lebanon is not a signatory of CITES and only 32 chameleons are reported to have entered the country.

"If large-scale captive-breeding operations of Madagascar's chameleons are indeed taking place in Kazakhstan, where did they source their breeding stock and why are many of the exports going via Lebanon, a country that is not a party to CITES?" asks Chris Shepherd, Deputy Director of TRAFFIC South-East Asia.

"Even at the highest theoretical hatching and survival rates, it is impossible for 32 chameleons to produce the thousands of offspring Thailand declared as imported from Lebanon in subsequent years, so how is the shortfall accounted for?" asks Shepherd.

Alongside chameleons TRAFFIC found more than 100 Radiated Tortoises (Astrochelys radiate), dozens of Spider Tortoises (Pyxis arachnoids), and three Ploughshare Tortoises (Astrochelys yniphora) - three of the world's rarest tortoise species. All classified by IUCN as Critically Endangered and their trade banned by CITES.

Crawford Allan, Regional Director, TRAFFIC North America warned western animal collectors to be wary of buying Madagascan fauna, even if the sellers claimed specimens were legally bred in captivity.

The Thai government does take action, and last week seized more than 800 protected reptiles at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport, however, Traffic want them to do more, particularly as Thailand will host the next CITES conference in 2013.
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I pity the poor airport security agent that opens up a suitcase with any kind of animal(s) that have been jammed into luggage. Hell of a day at work, opening up a carry on and having a snake, spider, bear cub etc. launch itself at your face.
 
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