Taronga Zoo AI of A Elephant

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Ara said:
Too late now of course, and easy for me to be wise after the event, but I reckon the whole new elephant complex should have been constructed adjacent to the old one.
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I agree the two elephant exhibits should be closer together for convienece,
 
well its now been anounced that Pontipp is also pregnant though AI to Melbournes male.

this means that by the end of 2009 - early 2010 there will be 6 elephants in that dare i say it quite small exhibit. thats a lot of elephants!
 
That's excellent news, the keepers at Melbourne though say apparently the exhibit was designed to house 5 adult elephants and some calves, and isn't Gung's new exhibit underway?
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
That's excellent news, the keepers at Melbourne though say apparently the exhibit was designed to house 5 adult elephants and some calves, and isn't Gung's new exhibit underway?
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6 elephants is minus gung. the total overall at the zoo will be 7 elephants
 
the options for taronga have been discussed many a time before...
their option would be....
*transfer one or more of the adult females to another institution; Perth, Auckland or Australia Zoo as occurs quite routinely across zoos in the Northern Hemisphere, although this risks breaking up what is obviously a happy herd.
*expand the existing enclosure; doubling the space for the elephants by linking it up with the area currently occupied by fennec foxes, meerkats, pygmy hippos, dhole and asian birds. this is quite a deep shelf of land and very long. a Perth'esque style of enclosure could easily be adapted to this area.
*if the first two calves are male then by the time they reach 8 years old or so they could be moved down to the new bull facility where at least one could live permanently.

its highly unlikely any animals would be sent to dubbo whilst ever it still holds Africans due to the danger of transferring herpes virus and creating carriers in the breeding population. but with 2 years to plan im sure the zoo will come up with a solution.
 
Yes, hopefully everythin will just work out well, the zoos I'm sure will know what to do,
 
was at Taronga today. work on the bull elephant yard is moving along. The outer shell of the "barn" is up. it is huge. it would be twice the size of the old temple. Go taronga.
 
with so much free space around the bull elephant exhibit it would be awesome to see the zoo create a smaller asian rainforest exhibit in between the temple and guenons.
keep the saltwater crocodiles but perhaps establish a second group of otters on the site of the old penguin exhibit, new primate species on the gibbon island, salties in their current (but requiring upgrade) exhibit and some Asian birds in the heritage aviaries.
 
glyn said:
with so much free space around the bull elephant exhibit it would be awesome to see the zoo create a smaller asian rainforest exhibit in between the temple and guenons.
keep the saltwater crocodiles but perhaps establish a second group of otters on the site of the old penguin exhibit, new primate species on the gibbon island, salties in their current (but requiring upgrade) exhibit and some Asian birds in the heritage aviaries.
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The heritage aviaries you are refering to are not able to be used, (to the anger of most staff). To work in the aviaries all workers would have to wear a harness at all times due to the slope and ground rocks. So that will not go ahead. The gibbon island has no news, nothing planned yet. The old penguin exhibit being demolished at the moment so that won't really work, and with the drainage system that was in place we would run the risk of the otters escaping through the grates like they used to. so once again out of the question.
 
glyn said:
the options for taronga have been discussed many a time before...
their option would be....
*transfer one or more of the adult females to another institution; Perth, Auckland or Australia Zoo as occurs quite routinely across zoos in the Northern Hemisphere, although this risks breaking up what is obviously a happy herd.
*expand the existing enclosure; doubling the space for the elephants by linking it up with the area currently occupied by fennec foxes, meerkats, pygmy hippos, dhole and asian birds. this is quite a deep shelf of land and very long. a Perth'esque style of enclosure could easily be adapted to this area.
*if the first two calves are male then by the time they reach 8 years old or so they could be moved down to the new bull facility where at least one could live permanently.

its highly unlikely any animals would be sent to dubbo whilst ever it still holds Africans due to the danger of transferring herpes virus and creating carriers in the breeding population. but with 2 years to plan im sure the zoo will come up with a solution.
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The exibit itself was designed to house a family so expansions are not really a priority at the moment, linking the elephant exhibit to the lot of land you suggest is not really viable for three reasons. Lack of area to put the species that would need to be rehomed. The back lot of the enclosures on that row are heritage listed i believe, also the area behind is used for bird show releases. The link between the two plots would enevitably create a clot at the junction that currently exists and would create a huge crowd problem after the bird show
 
Thanks zooworker, this is what I feared all the time. It`s such a disgrace that a great zoo like Taronga spent millions of dollar on an elephant enclosure which is just 1/2 acre and no bigger then the old one.
 
Former forum member patrick (bless his offended soul) once made the very good point that zoos would do much to defuse criticism simply by giving animals larger enclosures.

Simplistic - sure!
Expensive - I know.
Unnecessary- well, the jury's still out on that one!

However.........his point was very valid. Zoos would reap the benefit of increased public goodwill. Many people love zoos but have a sneaking suspicion that they are a bit restrictive and unfair on the animals.
 
That, yes is an excellent point, I still am very confused about the true source of the money system, though a lot of people are, I do somewhat miss the old guy,
 
The difference mainly is on the enrichment. I do agree with you all about the increased enclosure space, however Taronga at the moment it's not exactly easy to find room. The main issue is that a lot of the dead zone which now occupies where the seals used to be through to B2B, a lot of the area there is heritage listed, e.g. seal pools, floral clock. This means that we can't just whip out space, the vast majority of people want to see elephants at Taronga, and the recent natural pregnancy shows that the elephants are happy. As much research shows its not always how big the enclosure is, but also how much enrichment is in the yard and also how the elephants are managed. The program currently in place at Taronga is good because the keepers run a program that constantly has something for the elephants.
 
Yes, couldn't agree ,more enrichment is also vital,

Though examples in Emmen and Colonge zoo, elephants can be entertained and found happy be others. The two zoos have a latrge amount of elephants and it seems they cooperate very well, as like ah erd in the wild, though I find a lot of confusion between what some things should be based on in zoos,
 
zooworker said:
This means that we can't just whip out space, the vast majority of people want to see elephants at Taronga, and the recent natural pregnancy shows that the elephants are happy.
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Do elephants really only copulate when happy?
 
Not nessiceraily, in the wild it is just something that they just do, as a female knows its her time in the herd to have a baby, or just at a particular time females will ovulate, and passing males be just breed with her, if she is unguarded. But sometimes young cows are defended by the matriach and other cows who are older by bulls who they dislike. Perhpas it shows that the herd is comfortable with Gung's presence,
 
i agree with the premise that elephants dont just need space; and have long maintained that an enriched, smaller exhibit is better than a large one. thats why I have never had an issue with Taronga's enclosure.
Was completely unaware that the aviaries near the gibbon islands need harnesses to work in them, which to me is incredible considering their gradient isnt nearly as steep as some of the other exhibits in the zoo. But they should at least be restored.
An otter enclosure on the site of the current penguin exhibit should be started from scratch.
Back to elephants. Having reinterated my views above, with minimum space recquirements there is no way Taronga will be able to breed from all 4 cows and keep them and their calves in that exhibit without running into trouble. I cant see for the life of me how rehoming the species on the row of exhibits near the cats of asia couldnt be acheived; with the african tropical savannah development many of these animals will end up there. others, such as the birds could easily be redistributed, and there is at least one enclosure (the old sun bear exhibit) which could easily be adapted for dhole.
the problem with traffic on the junction of the aldabran tortoise, bear and ele barn road isnt to my mind a problem; either intall some MZ trail of the elephant style gates or simply walk the elephants across. and as for the heritage structures and the bird show launching pads...a long narrow enclosure similar to the one in Seattle could wrap around these structures without intefering with them.
just think that Taronga should remain one step ahead in terms of space for its growing family of pachyderms to avoid future gripes over crowding.
 
The point about using the argument that elephants that get lots of enrichment won`t need much space misses the point that space itself plays a HUGE role in enrichment for elephants. The very best enrichment for elephants are other elephants, calves of all ages and regular contact with an adult bull. Problem in Taronga: bull can`t be with the herd in the future because enclosures are seperated and can`t be connected; females with calves will have to be moved relatively soon if all 4 start to breed. Next best enrichment is searching food - but elephants are much longer busy with searching for the treats the keepers have distributed/hidden when the enclosure is larger and when the elephant can`t watch what`s going on in the whole enclosure without walking one step.

By the way, the Emmen enclosure is nearly twice of what Taronga has with a much larger barn and there are plans to build a much larger facility, while Cologne has at least 6 times more space.
 
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