All rhinos in Limpopo National Park have been poached

ThylacineAlive said:
The poachers won't care if the horns are poisonous or not as long as people are still buying. And the poachers could simply bleach the tusks or something. You're ideas are thinking outside the box but are a bit extreme.

~Thylo:cool:
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Would you buy a horn if there is a high probability that it is laced with chemicals, or if a rumour spread that a guy in the neighbouring village died from rhino horn poisoning?

Hmmm I suppose that they can bleach it, but it would degrade the quality and asking price. Then again, maybe they already bleach tusks to keep them white as is.
 
nanoboy said:
Well when you put it like that.... :D

Tracking each and every rhino isn't necessary, as long as poachers aren't aware of which rhino has the poison coating, and which doesn't.
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That won't make any difference whatsoever - the poachers aren't the end users and will still hunt every rhino they see because they get paid by the horn. The middle men won't care if the horns are toxic, because they get paid by the horn. And so on, down the line to the merchant selling the powdered horn to the consumer. And the merchant doesn't care if it might be poisoned - they are selling it as a medicine so their ethics are questionable to start with. If the consumer dies they would attribute that to the disease.

The other point is that the end product is powdered - coating the outside of the horn with a toxin will make little difference overall.

nanoboy said:
Another idea I have is to somehow make ivory tusks change colour once they are chopped off an elephant. So make it a dirty green or yellow or something when the elephants' bodies aren't contributing natural whitening chemicals.
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Tusks are teeth, so get the elephants hooked on coffee - that will stain the tusks. But make sure the coffee is decaffeinated; a herd of wide-eyed, overstimulated pachyderms is not good for tourism!

:p

Hix
 
Sometimes the best way to fight a fire is to light another.
Is this the "out of the box" thinking folks are discussing? If so, just farm them. I don't see many farm animals heading towards extinction.

Cheers Khakibob
 
G'day Bob.

Any outside the square thinking will do to kick things off.

Farming is a tried and true method of saving wildlife at risk. Trouble is, in Africa, the poachers raid the private reserves [their version of farms] with impunity.

So, where should these farms be located?

Some years ago the Queensland government suggested a huge Rhino preserve in western Queensland. Significant numbers of Rhinos could be kept there, they would be safe there, they wouldn't be displacing any significant indigenous wildlife and their feet would be kinder to the land than the cloven hoofed commercial animals that currently inhabit the area. Tourism would get a handy boost as well. The then ARAZPA Rhino expert howled the idea down.

Any thoughts?
 
Rhinos don't breed fast enough, have too low numbers, and grow too slowly to be farmed.

My question is, if poachers just want to get paid, the middle men don't care about the quality of the products they're receiving, and the consumers get powdered horns, how come the poachers just give the middle men some cheap, easier to obtain item already crushed up to give to the consumers? They won't notice.

~Thylo:cool:
 
Steve Robinson said:
G'day Bob.

Any outside the square thinking will do to kick things off.

Farming is a tried and true method of saving wildlife at risk. Trouble is, in Africa, the poachers raid the private reserves [their version of farms] with impunity.

So, where should these farms be located?

Some years ago the Queensland government suggested a huge Rhino preserve in western Queensland. Significant numbers of Rhinos could be kept there, they would be safe there, they wouldn't be displacing any significant indigenous wildlife and their feet would be kinder to the land than the cloven hoofed commercial animals that currently inhabit the area. Tourism would get a handy boost as well. The then ARAZPA Rhino expert howled the idea down.

Any thoughts?
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I also thought Florida had been mentioned as a reserve plan idea.
Apart from rooting up the land what other problems would rhino cause to native animals/plants.
It's getting to the stage now where it's almost too late and an outside the box plan should be used.
 
Khakibob is basically my new best friend. Fossil Rim but scaled up 20 or so times could be enough to meet world demand for rhino horn and save the remaining wild ones. By making the stuff cheap it would make the risk of hunting the wild ones not worth it.
 
An acquaintance of mine on the front lines in South Africa has this to say about rhino dehorning:

"Horn removal doesnt help. Poachers tracking rhinos only to find the horns removed end up shooting the rhino anyway - so they dont have to track it again. The other point is at $big money every gram is worth hacking off. We can't dehorn rhinos altogether as this will include part of its face. Poachers will still cut off the remaining horn.

Shoot the b*****ds on site. Stop the trade overseas and continue fighting the battles in the bush - until it becomes too much of a risk for the poacher"
 
farming rhinos isn't going to stop the killing of wild rhinos. The poachers don't get much money from their trade in relation to what the dealers get, so even if rhino horn somehow miraculously became cheap as chips (which it wouldn't, because rhinos simply don't breed that quickly) the poor people in Africa would still keep shooting the rhinos for the small amount they get. Some money is better than no money.

I also get a bit tired of the argument that "you don't see farmed animals becoming extinct". Of course you do! Where are aurochs? Extinct. Where are tarpan? Extinct. There are numerous aquarium fish species either effectively or entirely extinct in the wild despite being farmed in huge numbers. Farming them doesn't stop the wild ones being wiped out.

You definitely could set up a farm situation to produce rhino horn, same as you could for tigers to produce tiger bones, but it almost certainly won't prevent the species becoming extinct in the wild.

And before anyone asks, I don't have any solutions.
 
Chlidonias;665034. You definitely could set up a farm situation to produce rhino horn said:
I think that the farming [or massive game preserve in some country that is better policed than any part of Africa] idea that has been thrown out there may be more beneficial in terms of preservation of the species rather than satisfying the market.

This species most probably will become extinct in the wild in my lifetime. When it does, the market won't be able to be supplied anyway. A substitute will be found - either a synthetic one or another species will be recruited.

So, why not bite the bullet now and get every available Rhino out of Africa and into huge game reserves in safer countries? Not conservation I know, just preservation.

I don't have solutions either - just the recognition that we need to try something drastically different to what has been tried to date.
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@Chlidonias
I agree with you (and others here) that farming most likely will not stop the extinction of rhinos in Africa, BUT it will prevent a total loss of the species and they can maybe be reintroduced at some time in the future. Thus, farming is a viable option to safe the rhinos imho.
 
chizlit said:
I also thought Florida had been mentioned as a reserve plan idea.
Apart from rooting up the land what other problems would rhino cause to native animals/plants.
It's getting to the stage now where it's almost too late and an outside the box plan should be used.
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At last check, Florida's endemic species were being eaten out of house and home by anaconda. Which have exploded in population in the Everglades and surrounding areas, and have very nearly wiped out the food supply. Adding rhinos to the mix might even be a welcome addition.

The New York Times had this article last month about the possibility of farming rhinos for their horns: Coveting Horns, Ruthless Smugglers' Rings Put Rhinos in the Crosshairs

The New York Times said:
“Get caught smuggling a kilo of cocaine, you will receive a very significant prison sentence,” said Ed Grace, a deputy chief with the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. But with a kilogram of rhino horn, he added, “you may only get a fine.”

The typical rhino horn is about two feet long and 10 pounds, much of it formed from the same substance as fingernails. Yet it can fetch nearly $30,000 a pound, more than crack cocaine, and conservationists worry that this “ridiculous price,” as one wildlife manager put it, could drive rhinos into extinction.
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Buldeo said:
At last check, Florida's endemic species were being eaten out of house and home by anaconda. Which have exploded in population in the Everglades and surrounding areas, and have very nearly wiped out the food supply. Adding rhinos to the mix might even be a welcome addition.

The New York Times had this article last month about the possibility of farming rhinos for their horns: Coveting Horns, Ruthless Smugglers' Rings Put Rhinos in the Crosshairs
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And I assume the snakes were just dumped by some idiots where as the rhino could be introduced and managed properly alongside what is left of the native species.
 
I sometimes wonder about the seriousness of this thread.

Africa: Game wardens have been killed in great numbers in attempts to fight poaching.
Corruption and crime is not restricted to African countries.
Being poor may help to become a poacher.

Apparently customers at the other end have little to no education. A Chinese quote: Elephant tusks are growing again..

There are numerous new efforts under way, although still not sufficient, including Media Campaigns in Asian countries, where a feeling for the protection of animals seems to grow and contacts with the Asian governments to change legislation.

It is said, the poachers are technically becoming more and more sophisticated.
The UN knows about the problem, what are they doing to protect this kind of world heritage? There has to be much more pressure on the UN as well.

As it is asked too much from the impoverished African countries to tackle the scale of this problem, what can each of us do, to spread the message?
It is a war that has to be dealt with.
Suggestions please!
 
The solution to fight any problem like this is always with better technology and innovation. You can't stop the poachers from poaching when it offers them the best means to support their families. Likewise, you cannot stop the demand from the traditional Asian markets unless there is a better and more potent cure-all. And therein lies the solution. Give the consumers something new and shiny that they must have, that is effective, won't damage any species or environments, and that someone on some level can make a profit off of (because it's all about economics anyway). You need a viral marketing campaign with well-known celebrities, commercials, and endorsements.
 
jbnbsn99 said:
The solution to fight any problem like this is always with better technology and innovation. You can't stop the poachers from poaching when it offers them the best means to support their families. Likewise, you cannot stop the demand from the traditional Asian markets unless there is a better and more potent cure-all. And therein lies the solution. Give the consumers something new and shiny that they must have, that is effective, won't damage any species or environments, and that someone on some level can make a profit off of (because it's all about economics anyway). You need a viral marketing campaign with well-known celebrities, commercials, and endorsements.
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Easier said than done of course.

~Thylo:cool:
 
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