America's Best Zoos Updates

[reduakari]

ANyhuis:

Please don't characterize all, or even most, Americans as "greatly fearing" socialism. Despite attempts to use that word and concept to frighten Americans to "cling to their bibles and guns," the regressive and cynical behavior of the Republican party was soundly rejected last November. The global economic collapse is directly attributable to the 30-year history of the "free market" being given an increasingly free reign (aka "greed is good"). The rational approach to governance of countries like Sweden, the Netherlands and Germany are all examples our often-insular country should be looking towards, with an understanding that our system has definitely not shown itself to be infallible, or even close.

Back to zoos please, but I just had to assure the global membership of Zoochat that not all Americans have the extreme views you have suggested we do.

 

[Ituri]

Okay, so you just got done saying he shouldn't speak for everyone and then proceded to speak for everyone?

Seriously though, this would be a better topic for a different forum as there is not bound to be much commonality amongst the members of this board regarding politics. We'd best stick to what we all have in common. Zoos! At least in that realm the debate has a shot at being civil.

 

[Zooplantman]

I can assure you all, there is NO "wealth" coming from being the author of a book like America's Best Zoos.

By the way, hasn't that whole theory ("share the wealth", "spread the wealth around", etc.) been proven to be pure socialism? I remember it coming up in the last USA election.

Allan, remember that it was you who equated comments about supporting Zoochat with Socialism. It was you who saw an equivalency between the phrase "share the wealth" and Socialism. That term has been used for a long time without having that connection.

 

[ANyhuis]

Allan, remember that it was you who equated comments about supporting Zoochat with Socialism. It was you who saw an equivalency between the phrase "share the wealth" and Socialism. That term has been used for a long time without having that connection.

You're right! I guess I'm just a frustrated American, grieving at where my once-great nation is going. I truly believed President Clinton, when he told me that "the era of Big Government is over".

But enough on politics! Back to zoos! Again, I regret ever bringing this up.

 

[reduakari]

Okay, so you just got done saying he shouldn't speak for everyone and then proceded to speak for everyone?

Seriously though, this would be a better topic for a different forum as there is not bound to be much commonality amongst the members of this board regarding politics. We'd best stick to what we all have in common. Zoos! At least in that realm the debate has a shot at being civil.

I quite clearly said "not all Americans"--so I had no intent to claim any sort of mass consensus.

I agree, back to non-controversial topics like is the Lied Jungle really a good exhibit, are San Diego's "utilitrees" the ugliest thing you've ever seen, and what about that ugly fence between the okapis and hippos at Ituri Forest?! Oh, and isn't Philly Zoo the best in the country?!

 

[Ituri]

I quite clearly said "not all Americans"--so I had no intent to claim any sort of mass consensus.

I agree, back to non-controversial topics like is the Lied Jungle really a good exhibit, are San Diego's "utilitrees" the ugliest thing you've ever seen, and what about that ugly fence between the okapis and hippos at Ituri Forest?! Oh, and isn't Philly Zoo the best in the country?!

Haha! Good point! Oh and let's jump it across the pond and debate the marvel that is the RSCC as well shall we?

 

[ANyhuis]

I quite clearly said "not all Americans"--so I had no intent to claim any sort of mass consensus.

Quite honestly, I too didn't imply that ALL Americans fear socialism -- I merely said that "most of us" do. I think that's clearly true by the fact that even our most liberal politicians RUN from the "socialist" label. They know that is deadly to their electoral chances. Do you, RedUakari, really believe that hating socialism is an "extreme" view?

By the way, any thought that the Lied Jungle is anything but excellent is truly "controversial".

 

[zebedee101]

I quite clearly said "not all Americans"--so I had no intent to claim any sort of mass consensus.

I agree, back to non-controversial topics like is the Lied Jungle really a good exhibit, are San Diego's "utilitrees" the ugliest thing you've ever seen, and what about that ugly fence between the okapis and hippos at Ituri Forest?! Oh, and isn't Philly Zoo the best in the country?!

I think the majority of Americans might disagree with you!!!! but you will definately have the support of one zoo visitor

 

[markun]

Back to zoos! I wish there could be a book like this for every country, it would be a fantastic resource.

On the other hand, with the "Papua, New Guinea" error, no offense, but I do think you are being a bit picky. In fact, you are the first person to even make us aware of this problem. Yes, it's true that the actual nation's name is "Papua New Guinea" -- without the comma. But then again, the island's name is "New Guinea" and the other half of the island is the Indonesian province of "Papua". So thus, while technically you are correct, I doubt if we are the first ones to call this country "Papua, New Guinea". And no, I don't see this as comparable with "West, Virginia". It's more comparable with saying "West Virginia" while actually referring to the western portion of the state of Virginia -- which John Denver was actually doing in his song. (Technically, he should have sang "Western Virginia", but that wouldn't have fit into the "Country Roads" song as well.)

As for the Papua New Guinea question, I am the first one to admit that I'm picky! But the name of the country is Papua New Guinea not Papua, New Guinea and even if you aren't the first to make the mistake, it is still a mistake.

 

[reduakari]

Do you, RedUakari, really believe that hating socialism is an "extreme" view?

By the way, any thought that the Lied Jungle is anything but excellent is truly "controversial".

Well, any opinion that includes the word "hate" is by definition extreme. Many of the people who instinctively recoil from the word "socialism" are blissfully unaware that the US has many "socialist" aspects that are deeply ingrained in our political system: social security, Medicare, public education, farm subsidies, zoos supported by tax revenues etc., etc.


As to Lied Jungle: time to re-open that can of worms? Let me just say that I expect there will be some big changes in some of the practices in that and other exhibits at Henry Doorly Zoo now that its new leader (who has served as AZA Accreditation Chair) is in place.

Still enjoy referring to your book, and look forward to the updates.

 

[ANyhuis]

Well, any opinion that includes the word "hate" is by definition extreme. Many of the people who instinctively recoil from the word "socialism" are blissfully unaware that the US has many "socialist" aspects that are deeply ingrained in our political system: social security, Medicare, public education, farm subsidies, zoos supported by tax revenues etc., etc.

As to Lied Jungle: time to re-open that can of worms? Let me just say that I expect there will be some big changes in some of the practices in that and other exhibits at Henry Doorly Zoo now that its new leader (who has served as AZA Accreditation Chair) is in place.

Still enjoy referring to your book, and look forward to the updates.

I'll just say that I HATE socialism in the same way as I hate Naziism, but I mean institutionalized socialism. As I pointed out previously, I've got some very real personal reasons for my strong opinion against this form of government. But you make some good points about the "socialist" aspects of our government/society -- and most of the things you listed I would have opposed when they were originally proposed. (Tax-supported zoos is an exception for me.)

You may be right about changes at Henry Doorly, but I hope not. Dr. Simmons has been an amazing director and I hope his successor will simply follow his lead.

 

[snowleopard]

Both Canada and the United States are arguably part capitalist/part socialist governments. Medical aid in Canada is a fantastic resource, and Medicare in the U.S. is legendary for all the wrong reasons and badly needs an overhaul. Public education, various subsidies to all sorts of corporations and conglomerates, social security, pension funds, etc, all add up to the fact that socialism pervades all aspects of the lives of all Americans and Canadians. Whether an individual dislikes socialism or not is irrelevant as it is a part of everyone's life in most countries of the world. Fox News or some other ridiculous network can call it what it likes, but in reality capitalism has many socialist ideas in its nature.

Back to zoo topics:
@Allen: have you seen the komodo dragons yet at the Indianapolis Zoo? Where are they located and why are they only on loan for the summer? Does that mean the koalas have long disappeared?

 

[Zoogoer2000]

The koala's left Labor Day 2008. The dragons are located in the old Australia Plains area

 

[ANyhuis]

The koala's left Labor Day 2008. The dragons are located in the old Australia Plains area

Yes, both the koalas and Komodo dragons are temporary summer-only exhibits here at Indy. The old Australian Plains exhibit (kangaroos, emus, and black swans) as well as the budgie-feeding exhibit -- both are completely empty and shut down. There is a big sign there that says, "Coming Memorial Day 2010: Cheetahs". The dragons are in a brand new building across the path from where the kangaroos and emus formerly were. It's low, long, and glass-fronted. There is members-only viewing of the dragons both today and tomorrow, and then they'll be on display to the public on Saturday.

 

[zooman]

Zooman: I'll agree that you likely are not driving anyone away from this site. But I will caution you that there is a better way to let people know that they can (and maybe should) "join" ZooChat by contributing monetarily to the site. As Jon let you know, he didn't even know about this possibility -- same with me. Quite frankly, I just tried to join and the automated system wouldn't let me -- as it says I have a PayPal account, but I do not. Hopefully I'll get this resolved soon. But as I said, there's a better way -- besides using insults and profanity -- to encourage us to join ZooChat.

Anyhuis,
Why, you "caution" me?
why you need to suggest that l use profanity on this site?
Why you cannot simply apolagise to zooplantman?

I was until this morning rethinking my comments after reading snowleopards comments on the two of you.

I also was thinking best to leave this alone. Your comments simply reinforce my origional thoughts.

The idea that you have created "no wealth" Yet obviously not appreciating the lifestyle of visiting all these zoos. So many here would love to experiance.

Quote
Anyuhis, you just read as arrogant with a serious lack of gratitude to zoochat.Simply suggest selfishness. Nothing to do with the reverse of socialism.

Anyuhis l only bought this book because of reading about it on zoochat as l am sure many of us did..

Anyuhis I certainly will not add to your NO "wealth" with support of any other of your ventures. Quote

 

[ANyhuis]

Anyhuis,
Why, you "caution" me?
why you need to suggest that l use profanity on this site?
Why you cannot simply apolagise to zooplantman?

Zooman: I want to say this without putting you down, but your email is literally so full of typos that I'm REALLY not sure what you are saying. For example, mispelled profanity is still profanity, right? (see your post #4) Finally, I'll pull back the word "caution" and simply say I was suggesting you could have more nicely made us aware that we could be financially supporting ZooChat -- without the insults (which you continue). Instead we are accused of being greedy and selfish.

 

[tigertiger]

While I truly and strongly dislike that book (sorry!), I appreciate what you are doing with it and the blog. Keep it up!

 

[BlackRhino]

While I truly and strongly dislike that book (sorry!), I appreciate what you are doing with it and the blog. Keep it up!

What is there about the book to so "strongly dislike"? It is my personal favorite book, and I recently had to order a new copy because my older copy fell apart because I read it so much.

 

[tigertiger]

What is there about the book to so "strongly dislike"? It is my personal favorite book, and I recently had to order a new copy because my older copy fell apart because I read it so much.

Personally, I'm not interested in bashing the book for obvious reasons but I don't see what there is to like. I was really excited when I bought it but found it to be far too objective and not informative at all. I suppose I had high expectations that were not met. I felt like the descriptions of things were more listings of exhibit names coupled with zoo prices. I suppose that's great if that's what one is looking for but I wasn't. I personally was also looking for more of a "this is why you should go to this zoo if you're in xxx city" but instead it was more like "The xxx zoo cost $$$ and has these exhibits." It was less like a book and more like a collection of facts.

But again, for those looking for that, it serves it's purpose well. It's also an admirable collective body and perhaps one of the best known books in the field. It just makes me personally sad because I feel it could have been done infinitely better though I'm sure there were constraints on it.

 

[zooman]

Zooman: I want to say this without putting you down, but your email is literally so full of typos that I'm REALLY not sure what you are saying. For example, mispelled profanity is still profanity, right? (see your post #4) Finally, I'll pull back the word "caution" and simply say I was suggesting you could have more nicely made us aware that we could be financially supporting ZooChat -- without the insults (which you continue). Instead we are accused of being greedy and selfish.

I wish l could say English is my 2nd language Its Not....

You understood my point on profanity. Then ignore the others? Made in the same way.

Mate lets not split hairs we will never get along.

I think we look at the world very differntley.