An Analysis of Animals in Speculative Zoos in the United State

Austin the Sengi said:
@MOG2012, from your current list, I would remove/define the following species; with the majority of these mammals having a single holder that maintains them on or off display:
  • Little/Pacific Pocket Mouse
  • New England Cottontail*
  • Vancouver Island Marmot*
  • False Killer Whale
  • Commerson’s Dolphin
  • Orca - (for any collection outside of the SeaWorld Parks)
  • Spinner Dolphin
  • Jaguarundi
  • Banded Civet*
(*not for public displays)
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I also took AZA TAGS in mind. I'll fix those. The cottontails and marmot will stay as breeding programs are present. So should the cetaceans be?;
  • Delphinidae
    • Pantropical Spotted Dolphin Stenella attenuata
    • Indo-Pacific Bottlenose Dolphin Tursiops aduncus
    • Common Bottlenose Dolphin Tursiops truncatus
    • Short-finned Pilot Whale Globicephala macrorhynchus
  • Monodontidae
    • Beluga Delphinapterus leucas
I'm unsure about the presence of banded palm civets in the AZA (I thought Memphis, Nashville and San Diego had them). For jaguarundis, they were phase-ins in the 2010s but I don't know if that will happen so I need help on that
 
Regarding the pilot whales, I forgot to add them to the removal list, since only SeaWorld San Diego maintains the species.

As for the other cetaceans, the bottlenose dolphins (both species) and belugas are feasible enough for how many current holders are present in the US and Canada; while the spotted dolphins you listed are non-existent in the region.

Also, while we do have Atlantic Spotted Dolphins (Stenella frontalis), they can only be found at the Dolphin Research Center in Grass Key, Florida; and are not worth the addition, regarding feasibility.
 
Thanks for the help. The only unsure stuff I have are the jaguarundi, palm civet, the primate section, and the rodent section (Bronx Zoo makes it hard).
 
No problem @MOG2012, for while I may not be the best person to ask regarding the rodents and primates. I can tell you that having jaguarundis is more feasible for a spec-zoo based in Mexico than the US and Canada combined*.

As for the palm civets, I would keep them in at this point, for as long as at least one facility publicly displays them (Memphis; if they still do?), I’d say it’s worth a mention.

*according to Zootierliste, there are currently five holders of the species in Mexico compared to two in the US, and none in Canada.
 
MOG2012 said:
I'm returning to this thread sometime soon but during my spec Zoo research, I wrote a list of around every mammal that I believe is realistic for an American Zoo (sustainability in mind, AZA recommendations, etc.). This doesn't include some possible rescues. It's all in the following document;
Untitled document

If you see anything I should fix, please comment
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Banded Palm Civet and Greater Bulldog Bat but not Polar Bear, Thomson's Gazelle, Fallow Deer, or flying squirrels?

Also Jaguarundi can go, there's maybe one left. ZTL seems to be mistaking one holder for one with Tayra...

Vancouver Island Marmot is held in small numbers at 2 facilities as insurance basically, they are not an AZA program and there is no interest for them.
 
Great Argus said:
Banded Palm Civet and Greater Bulldog Bat but not Polar Bear, Thomson's Gazelle, Fallow Deer, or flying squirrels?

Also Jaguarundi can go, there's maybe one left. ZTL seems to be mistaking one holder for one with Tayra...

Vancouver Island Marmot is held in small numbers at 2 facilities as insurance basically, they are not an AZA program and there is no interest for them.
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I personally think that polar bears aren't sustainable (breeding wise), I honestly forgot about Thomson's Gazelle. The other things you mentioned aren't supported by the AZA. I'll remove all of those
 
Is there anything else that I should remove? The primate and rodent section are the only parts left I think. The hoofstock might need some help too
 
MOG2012 said:
I personally think that polar bears aren't sustainable (breeding wise)
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I'm confused. You're docking Polar Bear for being unsustainable but keeping Banded Palm Civet, Greater Bulldog Bat, Walrus, Harp Seal, Greater Malayan Chevrotain, Bush Dog, Fanaloka, Spot-necked Otter, etc, etc all of which have smaller populations and worse off than Polars. There's literally a single permanently held Harp Seal in the USA.

MOG2012 said:
The other things you mentioned aren't supported by the AZA.
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Again, confused - a large chunk of your list is not supported by the AZA so I don't get what the problem is. If your caveat for the list is it needs to be a functional population supported by the AZA, roughly two-thirds of the list should be cut, just saying.
 
Great Argus said:
I'm confused. You're docking Polar Bear for being unsustainable but keeping Banded Palm Civet, Greater Bulldog Bat, Walrus, Harp Seal, Greater Malayan Chevrotain, Bush Dog, Fanaloka, Spot-necked Otter, etc, etc all of which have smaller populations and worse off than Polars. There's literally a single permanently held Harp Seal in the USA.



Again, confused - a large chunk of your list is not supported by the AZA so I don't get what the problem is. If your caveat for the list is it needs to be a functional population supported by the AZA, roughly two-thirds of the list should be cut, just saying.
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In your opinion, what should I remove?
 
MOG2012 said:
In your opinion, what should I remove?
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That depends on what criteria you have for this list - if it is supposed to be any species reasonable for a speculative zoo based in the US, then I have more additions than removals.
However you seem to have various other criteria such as being sustainable and supported by the AZA, which are being very inconsistently followed.

So first my question is what are the rules you want on this list - because those rules will greatly influence my answers.
 
Great Argus said:
That depends on what criteria you have for this list - if it is supposed to be any species reasonable for a speculative zoo based in the US, then I have more additions than removals.
However you seem to have various other criteria such as being sustainable and supported by the AZA, which are being very inconsistently followed.

So first my question is what are the rules you want on this list - because those rules will greatly influence my answers.
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This would be for spec zoos based in the US but have animals that are sustainable long-term in the zoo and are found in AZA zoos
 
MOG2012 said:
This would be for spec zoos based in the US but have animals that are sustainable long-term in the zoo and are found in AZA zoos
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If that's what you want to stick with, then here you go - debatables are generally either teetering on the sustainable point or are not very common in the AZA but are obtainable.

Remove:

Short-beaked Echidna
Yellow-footed Rock Wallaby
Southern Hairy-nosed Wombat
New England Cottontail
Diana Monkey
Vervet Monkey
Nancy Ma's Night Monkey
Colombian Red Howler
Pied Tamarin
Black Capuchin
Aye-aye
Small-eared Greater Galago
Merriam's Kangaroo-Rat
Crested Porcupine
Allegheny Wood-Rat
Cactus Mouse
Deer Mouse
Oldfield Mouse
Flower's Gerbil
Mongolian Jird
Bushy-tailed Jird
Nile Grass Rat
Northern Luzon Cloud Rat
Tiny Pygmy Mouse
Gerenuk
Steenbok
Nubian Ibex
Chinese Goral
Nilgiri Tahr
Mountain Goat
Urial
African Buffalo
White-lipped Deer
Barasingha
Eld's Deer
Greater Oriental Chevrotain
Wild Boar
Indo-pacific Bottlenose Dolphin
Walrus
Northern Fur Seal
Steller's Sea Lion
Ringed Seal
Dhole
Bush Dog
Island Fox
Fanaloka
Ring-tailed Vontsira
Banded Mongoose
Striped Hyena
Spot-necked Otter

Debatable:

Tasmanian Devil
Black & Rufous Elephant Shrew
Asian Elephant
Allen's Swamp Monkey
Patas Monkey
Black Mangabey
Wolf's Guenon
Gelada
Golden-headed Lion Tamarin
Blue-eyed Black Lemur
Crowned Lemur
Degu
California Mouse
Eurasian Harvest Mouse
Prevost's Squirrel
Pronghorn
Red-flanked Duiker
Klipspringer
Lowland Anoa
Moose
Southern Pudu
Tufted Deer
Babirusa
Visayan Warty Pig
Beluga
Fossa
Fishing Cat
Common Dwarf Mongoose
Wolverine
Fisher
Giant Otter
American Badger
Ringtail
Kinkajou
Baird's Tapir

Add:

Generic Giraffe
 
Great Argus said:
If that's what you want to stick with, then here you go - debatables are generally either teetering on the sustainable point or are not very common in the AZA but are obtainable.

Remove:

Short-beaked Echidna
Yellow-footed Rock Wallaby
Southern Hairy-nosed Wombat
New England Cottontail
Diana Monkey
Vervet Monkey
Nancy Ma's Night Monkey
Colombian Red Howler
Pied Tamarin
Black Capuchin
Aye-aye
Small-eared Greater Galago
Merriam's Kangaroo-Rat
Crested Porcupine
Allegheny Wood-Rat
Cactus Mouse
Deer Mouse
Oldfield Mouse
Flower's Gerbil
Mongolian Jird
Bushy-tailed Jird
Nile Grass Rat
Northern Luzon Cloud Rat
Tiny Pygmy Mouse
Gerenuk
Steenbok
Nubian Ibex
Chinese Goral
Nilgiri Tahr
Mountain Goat
Urial
African Buffalo
White-lipped Deer
Barasingha
Eld's Deer
Greater Oriental Chevrotain
Wild Boar
Indo-pacific Bottlenose Dolphin
Walrus
Northern Fur Seal
Steller's Sea Lion
Ringed Seal
Dhole
Bush Dog
Island Fox
Fanaloka
Ring-tailed Vontsira
Banded Mongoose
Striped Hyena
Spot-necked Otter

Debatable:

Tasmanian Devil
Black & Rufous Elephant Shrew
Asian Elephant
Allen's Swamp Monkey
Patas Monkey
Black Mangabey
Wolf's Guenon
Gelada
Golden-headed Lion Tamarin
Blue-eyed Black Lemur
Crowned Lemur
Degu
California Mouse
Eurasian Harvest Mouse
Prevost's Squirrel
Pronghorn
Red-flanked Duiker
Klipspringer
Lowland Anoa
Moose
Southern Pudu
Tufted Deer
Babirusa
Visayan Warty Pig
Beluga
Fossa
Fishing Cat
Common Dwarf Mongoose
Wolverine
Fisher
Giant Otter
American Badger
Ringtail
Kinkajou
Baird's Tapir

Add:

Generic Giraffe
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The wild boar represents the domestic pigs. Which animals should I remove that have no value as I wanted to keep species that have efforts to increase numbers in. I’m not a fan of generic animals though
 
MOG2012 said:
Which animals should I remove that have no value as I wanted to keep species that have efforts to increase numbers in.
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I've bolded what can go by that benchmark.

Great Argus said:
Remove:

Short-beaked Echidna
Yellow-footed Rock Wallaby
Southern Hairy-nosed Wombat
New England Cottontail
Diana Monkey
Vervet Monkey
Nancy Ma's Night Monkey
Colombian Red Howler
Pied Tamarin
Black Capuchin
Aye-aye
Small-eared Greater Galago
Merriam's Kangaroo-Rat
Crested Porcupine
Allegheny Wood-Rat
Cactus Mouse
Deer Mouse
Oldfield Mouse
Flower's Gerbil
Mongolian Jird
Bushy-tailed Jird
Nile Grass Rat
Northern Luzon Cloud Rat
Tiny Pygmy Mouse
Gerenuk
Steenbok
Nubian Ibex
Chinese Goral
Nilgiri Tahr
Mountain Goat
Urial
African Buffalo
White-lipped Deer
Barasingha
Eld's Deer
Greater Oriental Chevrotain
Wild Boar
Indo-pacific Bottlenose Dolphin
Walrus
Northern Fur Seal
Steller's Sea Lion
Ringed Seal
Dhole
Bush Dog
Island Fox
Fanaloka
Ring-tailed Vontsira
Banded Mongoose
Striped Hyena
Spot-necked Otter

Debatable:

Tasmanian Devil
Black & Rufous Elephant Shrew
Asian Elephant
Allen's Swamp Monkey
Patas Monkey
Black Mangabey
Wolf's Guenon
Gelada
Golden-headed Lion Tamarin
Blue-eyed Black Lemur
Crowned Lemur
Degu
California Mouse
Eurasian Harvest Mouse
Prevost's Squirrel
Pronghorn
Red-flanked Duiker
Klipspringer
Lowland Anoa
Moose
Southern Pudu
Tufted Deer
Babirusa
Visayan Warty Pig
Beluga
Fossa
Fishing Cat
Common Dwarf Mongoose
Wolverine
Fisher
Giant Otter
American Badger
Ringtail
Kinkajou
Baird's Tapir
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MOG2012 said:
I’m not a fan of generic animals though
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Nothing generic at either the species or subspecies level?
 
MOG2012 said:
The bolded one are the ones I should remove?
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Yes, per your set standards.

MOG2012 said:
Subspecies level for generic.
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Right. So cut Asian Elephant, Blue Duiker, Sable Antelope, Klipspringer, American Bison, Common Eland, Gray Wolf, Ocelot, Sloth Bear, Binturong, and Plains Zebra I guess then. Blue Wildebeest and Harbor Seal potentially too at that rate. Populations are all significantly or entirely generic.
 
Great Argus said:
Yes, per your set standards.



Right. So cut Asian Elephant, Blue Duiker, Sable Antelope, Klipspringer, American Bison, Common Eland, Gray Wolf, Ocelot, Sloth Bear, Binturong, and Plains Zebra I guess then. Blue Wildebeest and Harbor Seal potentially too at that rate. Populations are all significantly or entirely generic.
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I meant species level. For the ones I should cut out, a lot of them have conservation needs so which ones are the best to cut
 
MOG2012 said:
For the ones I should cut out, a lot of them have conservation needs so which ones are the best to cut
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You wanted what was sustainable and in the AZA - everything I marked is either crashing populationwise, held at only one or two places, or being managed out due to lack of interest/problems. I don't get this pick and choose deal. You're trying to keep Fanaloka and Barasingha on but refusing to include generic Giraffe; that's not realistic nor is it helpful for projects.

Wisp O' Mist said:
I'm curious as how the AZA-zoo population of American Bison qualifies as "generic".
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Bit of a loose definition on my end, as the entirety of the population isn't truly pure Bison bison.
 
Great Argus said:
You wanted what was sustainable and in the AZA - everything I marked is either crashing populationwise, held at only one or two places, or being managed out due to lack of interest/problems. I don't get this pick and choose deal. You're trying to keep Fanaloka and Barasingha on but refusing to include generic Giraffe; that's not realistic nor is it helpful for projects.



Bit of a loose definition on my end, as the entirety of the population isn't truly pure Bison bison.
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Is there anything else I should fix? Isn't it true that a lot of the American Bison have part domestic cattle ancestry.
Untitled document
 
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