Animal intelligence

Z

zooman

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
This once again has come up in another thread.

Hippos communicate with clicking sounds and are related to dolphins!

It has me thinking. Have always been in awe of leaf cutter ants building thoose amazing nests. Yet are they intelligent or is it all instinctive??

I have seen chimps at Howlettes comunicate to each other with human hand gestures.

Aparentley a gorilla has the intelligence of a 3-4 year old.

Would be interested in hearing others experinace of animal intelligence and how do we measure it. As l will not be haveing a leaf cutter ant at my next dinner party. As smart as he seems to be!!
 
chimpanzees apparently from tests in japan have better short term memory then 10 year old child.
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
chimpanzees apparently from tests in japan have better short term memory then 10 year old child.
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You do have the strangest facts in your young head!

Thats really interesting though. I would wonder how they gathered there information from the chimps?
 
why thank you! they used a number sequence lighting the numbers up in order and then turning them off. Then the chimps and then the children push on the numbers in order ( well try to) Chimps are correct on more than 90% of the time, whilst the kids I belive are only 60%.
 
How we measure animal intelligence...that's a tough one...I had to sleep on it :) It's interesting that even in the human world we don't have a set definition. Instead, we've devised multiple "types" of intelligence that a person might display (emotional, cognitive, linguistic, logical/mathematical, physical, musical, visual...the list goes on for awhile). If we were to strictly measure animal intelligence the same way we've accomodated for people...there would be no doubt in my mind that animals exhibit intelligence (and...in the case of Alex the African Gray, I'd even argue some animals are smarter than people :D Alex was linguistic, mathematical, emotional, AND visual...haha)
 
yeah from what Leptonyx was saying there are several signs of intelligence, but I think the main factor is just IQ count. Though several do amaze us in what particular animals intelligence can do!
 
Animal memory.

Memory and intelligence are different things but some animals have amazing memories- dogs for example. I'm always intrugued by memory.

I once knew a handraised adult male Blackbuck antelope- he saw me frequently and would react by immediately coming to the fence with head back, ears down and tail up- the display/aggressive posture (he obviously treated me as a rival and wanted to attack me) He was sent to another zoo where I visited a couple of years later. When I approached his paddock he was sitting down but immediately got up and followed me with his strutting display, whilst ignoring everyone else nearby. Just like old times...

I was impressed that this antelope clearly had no problem remembering me after two years absence. How did he do it- sight, appearance, smell?
 
Leptonyx said:
It's interesting that even in the human world we don't have a set definition. Instead, we've devised multiple "types" of intelligence that a person might display (emotional, cognitive, linguistic, logical/mathematical, physical, musical, visual...the list goes on for awhile).
QUOTE]


l would have thought signs of intelligence would be

Successful reproduction.
Control of enviroment. eg a birds nest a rabbitts burrow ect


Okay the more l think about it Leptonyx the crazier my head goes! Your "types" do go on forawhile dont they. Could it start with memory? Then where does instinct come into it???
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Best are animals which suprass humans in some aspects.

Pigeons are long known to be much better than people in some kinds of memory (finding way around, remembering pairs of pictures etc).

Ravens are better than chimps in figuring out thoughts of other individuals (what he sees and knows, what he doesn't see, how he will react etc). They can be hellishly difficult to fool by people.

I know people who protected turtle nests by putting mesh over them. Ravens learned to follow them, pull mesh aside and dig out eggs. Then people started to put mesh in random places. Proper nests were additionaly secured with metal pins. Ravens quickly got interested only in mesh with metal pins.
 
Jurek7 said:
Ravens are better than chimps in figuring out thoughts of other individuals They can be hellishly difficult to fool by people.
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Ravens are very 'canny' I heard recently they can untie knots, solve simple puzzles and I think they can count too.
 
Pertinax said:
Memory and intelligence are different things but some animals have amazing memories- dogs for example. I'm always intrugued by memory.

I once knew a handraised adult male Blackbuck antelope- he saw me frequently and would react by immediately coming to the fence with head back, ears down and tail up- the display/aggressive posture (he obviously treated me as a rival and wanted to attack me) He was sent to another zoo where I visited a couple of years later. When I approached his paddock he was sitting down but immediately got up and followed me with his strutting display, whilst ignoring everyone else nearby. Just like old times...

I was impressed that this antelope clearly had no problem remembering me after two years absence. How did he do it- sight, appearance, smell?
Click to expand...

We had a dingo that we imported many years ago from Australia--Healesville if I remember correctly. About 5 years later I met a gentleman who had cared for that animal in Australia. He came to visit our zoo a few weeks later and I took him into the dingo barn. Koori seemed very familiar with this visitor and reacted in a positive manner almost instantly.
 
Animals can have amazing memories and great intelligence. For example, several different apes have been taught basic language which requires both. Although spoken language was not accomplished very well - the most was a chimp who could do four words - ASL (american sign language) is very effective as apes are often more gestural than vocal. Next of Kin by Roger Fouts tells of Washoe, the chimp who could reportedly 'speak' over a hundred words in ASL (although this figure has been disputed) and is said to have known grammar. Also, using ASL, Coco the gorilla did an IQ test and got 95.

Crows are also very clever. They can recognise themselves in the mirror and drop nuts on busy roads in Japan. The cars then drive over the nuts, thus, cracking them. Other birds also show intelligence. Research shows that pigeons follow motorways to keep going in the right direction.

New data says that Orang-Utans are the most clever animals as opposed to chimps. Orangs are known to put palm leaves over their night nests when it is raining to keep themselves dry.

Being a member of National Geographic, i also read that article and found it very interesting. If i remember correctly, there was a lot of information on the intelligence of different pets (incidentally, it has just been proved that dogs can feel several emotions like jealousy and pride).

When in zoos, i often wonder whether the man laughing at the gorilla and referring to it as a stupid monkey is actually less intelligent!
 
zooman said:
l would have thought signs of intelligence would be

Successful reproduction.
Control of enviroment. eg a birds nest a rabbitts burrow ect


Okay the more l think about it Leptonyx the crazier my head goes! Your "types" do go on forawhile dont they. Could it start with memory? Then where does instinct come into it???
Click to expand...

Haha- your head does swim a bit afterwards :) I wouldn't view "successful reproduction" as one, only because there are several animals that are very, VERY successful at reproducing, but no one would think to measure their IQ (Ex., tapeworms can dish out MILLIONS of eggs, insects are on the whole more successful at reproducing than most mammals). I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "control of environment"...as in how they build their homes? I would argue that would mainly be instinct...only because some human-imprinted/raised animals still have the ability to build and/or recognize what would make a "good" home.

My point about the "multiple types" of intelligence were mainly to point out that as soon as we settle on a single definition (ex., IQ), we tend to become rather close-minded and ignore all the other different possibilities. Memory is definetely a good place to start I think :) The Pavlov's dog one is classical- it shows the dog was able to make the connection between two unrelated events (the bell and getting food). Certain dogs at the Humane Society would definetely recognize me...it would sometimes be frustruting because I would tell potential adopters how wonderful a dog was, only to find out that she/he was only like that with the staff because they'd known us for so long (adopters of course- thought I was exxagerating :rolleyes:).

As another measure of intelligence, how about "adaptability"? An animal in it's natural environment with everything provided could just be acting on instinct- it's been hard-wired like that through millions of years of evolution. "City" animals- such as foxes and raccoons, have come to grips with a new environment with whole new rules extremely quickly.
 
redpanda said:
it has just been proved that dogs can feel several emotions like jealousy and pride).


I would have thought that with my dogs!!:D


When in zoos, i often wonder whether the man laughing at the gorilla and referring to it as a stupid monkey is actually less intelligent!
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Goes without saying :rolleyes:
 
Leptonyx said:
I wouldn't view "successful reproduction" as one, only because there are several animals that are very, VERY successful at reproducing, but no one would think to measure their IQ (Ex., tapeworms can dish out MILLIONS of eggs, insects are on the whole more successful at reproducing than most mammals).



Not really sure where l was headed either. Its just that as all animals have a primary purpose to reproduce. Surely the more succesfull the more intelligent:confused:



I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "control of environment"...as in how they build their homes?

Medicine, education.
Also along the lines of your next comments. Humans can heat or cool anywhere in the world. Living at the polar caps or travelling deep into the seas.


As another measure of intelligence, how about "adaptability"? An animal in it's natural environment with everything provided could just be acting on instinct- it's been hard-wired like that through millions of years of evolution. "City" animals- such as foxes and raccoons, have come to grips with a new environment with whole new rules extremely quickly.
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I really like this idea for a test of intelligence!!

"Just what is instinct and what is intelligence??":confused:
 
As I mentioned in another thread, I think that the whole concept of intelligence or rather, the objective determination of animal intelligence is seriously flawed-and not just in regard to animals, but, as it was pointed out, even among us humans...

In terms of animal intelligence, I frankly see the human tester as the main problem. No matter how hard we try: it is nearly impossible for us humans to determine "intelligence" without falling for anthropocentrism in one way or another.
Let's be honest: we are highly social, competitive and inventive primates with relatively large, sulcated brains, full of neurons. We use especially our hands in various ways to manipulate our environment (including the fabrication of tools) and have developed complex versions of physical and vocal intraspecific communication. Alas, we remain playful, curious and "creative" even as adults, but also quite violent, emotional, malicious and thoughtless.
The more of these traits we see "reflected" in an animal (especially at first sight), and the better it behaves according to the tests we constructed (which are based on concepts highly regarded by us humans-such as use of tools, language, memory etc.), the quicker it learns and follows our training, and the more "human" it appears, the more likely we are to consider this animal as "intelligent". Consequently, we typically use the results from the tests to rank and value the animal according to its "intelligence", as we humans love to rank things and appretiate intelligence as a positive trait.

Due to this, domestic animals like dogs, pigs or horses as well as many primate species, but also ravens, parrots, elephants or dolphins are considered "intelligent"-wheras most reptiles, amphibians, fish, many birds and smaller mammals and especially most invertebretes (with the exception of some cephalopoda that did "well" in some tests...) are considered "less intelligent".
However, everyone who has ever owned a cat, a donkey or a dog breed known to be "headstrong" (may it be a dachshund, a terrier or a shiba inu) knows that not following commands or not acting up according to human will doesn't have to indicate an absence of "intelligence"-just as "stupid" animals like turtles, sheep/cows or coconut crabs can sometimes display behaviour that could be considered "intelligent"-yet just always according to our (current) human standards...

Personally, I don't think that high adaptivity and habitat generalism is compulsivly a sign of intelligence-if so, cockroaches would be way smarter than, say, specialists like Giant Pandas or Cheetahs...

One should also not forget that the determination of intelligence is highly influenced by the tests themselves. Therefore, a snail would have problems to come out as "intelligent" in a test designed by smart mammals for smart mammals...

So if we talk about animal intelligence, one should always add: according to [current] human standards. And how "objective" these can be, is mockingly illustrated by this quote from the movie "MIB": "Human thought is so primitive it's looked upon as an infectious disease in some of the better galaxies." ;)
 
Boxing is considered very hard on the mind and on the body. Mastering techniques and stratagy is unquestionably hard. Safari world Thailand claims that their Orang-utan's know how to box as well as real Muay-thai fighters! From some articles I have found. ( Though the bulk of it is in Thai)
I personaly though assume that they just punch a little and that's it.
 
Sun Wukong said:
Personally, I don't think that high adaptivity and habitat generalism is compulsivly a sign of intelligence-if so, cockroaches would be way smarter than, say, specialists like Giant Pandas or Cheetahs...
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Good point- I stand corrected :) You certainly bring a lot of good points up front in regards to accurately measuring animal intelligence- Susan McCarthy & Jeff Masson bring similar arguments on the Anthropomorphism/Anthrocentrism debate (although theirs is based on whether animals have emotions, which could be an entirely different topic altogether :p)

Still, I think some form of measurement of "animal intelligence" is required, not so much that we can "rank" animals and make ourselves at the top, but more so that people can be made aware of the ethical considerations when using animals. The first live vivisections were based on the assumption that animals could not feel pain. Think of the numerous inhumane and cruel experiments that have arisen over the decades because humans under-estimated an animal's intelligence (I'm assuming that everyone here KNOWS that animals have some form of intelligence :p). I don't think anyone can argue that there aren't some flaws in how intelligence is measured, but on my end it's better that animals' are given some credit than none at all.

@ dragon(ele)nerd: That's kind of funny...a Muay-thai orangutan...if we could someone combine them with the boxing kangaroos from Australia, Jet Li and Tony Jaa would have finally met their match :D
 
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