Anne the ex Circus Elephant.

Playing devil's advocate could Anne not have gone to another collection with Asian elephants other then Whipsnade? Chester, Blackpool, Belfast, Port Lympne and Twycross could have all been possibilities, next to a park that doesn't have any other elephants, and up until recently had not professed much of an ambition to reacquire them again.
 
tetrapod said:
Playing devil's advocate could Anne not have gone to another collection with Asian elephants other then Whipsnade? Chester, Blackpool, Belfast, Port Lympne and Twycross could have all been possibilities, next to a park that doesn't have any other elephants, and up until recently had not professed much of an ambition to reacquire them again.
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I think the whole point of Anne going to Longleat was a) because she needs to be on her own initially and b) because she will be in the very capable hands of the UK`s leading Elephant veterinarian.
The subsequent issue of whether or not Longleat should go back into keeping Elephants is not really relevant at this stage.
Yes, there is a long-term desire to move back into keeping them but I stress long-term , which probably will not include Anne as she is really only there on a temporary basis initially to be able to assess her health and treat any problems as best they can.
 
Nanook said:
I think the whole point of Anne going to Longleat was a) because she needs to be on her own initially and b) because she will be in the very capable hands of the UK`s leading Elephant veterinarian.
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For what reason does she need to be housed seperately? Most facilities existing with elephants are able to seperate off individuals. I appreciate integrating a new individual into the 'herd' takes time but I'm not exactly sure why she would need to stay a solitary animal.

Not knowing the guy or his capabilities but why would the UK's leading elephant vet still be based in the Longleat area years after their last elephants left. Is he indeed the leading UK elephant vet or just an experienced elephant vet? Odd. Wondering whether this was media spin, but then I haven't taken to much notice of the exact wording in these 'press' releases.
 
I'm not an expert, but...

It might be possible to separate her, but it might not be especially practical. For example I think someone already said at Whipsnade they already have to keep some of their elephants separated because they don't get on. Any need to separate is going to increase the amount of time an animal spends in restricted quarters. Also in the wild female elephants stay with their mothers, sisters etc. It's not especially natural for a stranger to join the group. Added to which generally the oldest/largest female is the leader. Ann coming into that situation would presumably automatically cause upset as a possible challenge to leadership.

Re the vet: I think someone said he'd recently joined Longleat as head of the animal section? (Forget the exact title). Being an expert in Elephants would not mean he only treated elephants: he may well be a leading expert in, say, camels and rhino too. No vet studies just to treat one species: they do 7 years degree to start covering all animals. I heard somewhere (from an old book, so this is quite likely not up to date) that it's legal for a vet to treat a human, but not for a doctor to treat animals. The reason being that doctors are trained for just one species, vets are trained to deal with the differences between different species. Also presumably being based at one zoo would not stop him advising at others.
 
As an ex-Guardian reader and now one who regularly reads the Mail I have just looked at the article you mentioned. I personally can't see any big difference in the reporting between the two papers. I do know that the Mail has the largest readership of any newspaper in the country and therefore it is a brilliant platform for any campaign you might want to highlight. They have covered countless issues such as the falling number of albatrosses, loss of reptile habitat across the country, the plight of moon bears and many others, not all of them 'cute creatures'. Quite often the little old ladies of the Mail readership are those who go out and do something practical such as cleaning out for the local cattery or sorting musty clothing to sell in the local animal charity shop. I take my hat off to them because I wouldn't want to do it. We don't all have the training or expertise to be able to influence the lives of bigger mammals but in the case of Anne the elephant we have been able to join in and it's wonderful. Just watching the video of her enjoying her new surroundings is heartwarming and the thought of being able to help others is equally so. I like to think that Britain is awash with people who care about the environment and the animals who populate this planet, whether at home or abroad, but it is not necessary to read a particular newspaper to be effective and they too, obviously, have their bias. Compassion knows no boundaries.
 
My own impression is that the Mail's compassion definitely knows boundaries, and they are set where the best paper sales are. I haven't seen much compassion around the idea that the owners might possibly have been taken in, and might genuinly care for Ann. The Mail has probably had the same oportunities to write the evidence on that side, and they've definitely not taken it up to the same extent as the Guardian/Observer.

I post on another forum with the kind of people you talk about: many people active in cat rescue. It was quite scary the reaction the initial articles in the Mail got: in fact the thread in question was titled 'RSPCA fails again' and started with the idea that Bobby should have been prosecuted years before this happened (apparently there were some accusations made by a previous employee of the sort that would be unlikely to stand up in court) and quickly decended into a hate match. When I pointed out there was no actual evidence against Bobby I got pretty roasted myself.

No doubt Mail readers do a lot of good, but the 'compassion' is definitely focussed, not boundless. It's more a case of painting things into 'good' and 'evil' camps and letting loose the mob.
 
Jan P. said:
As an ex-Guardian reader and now one who regularly reads the Mail I have just looked at the article you mentioned. I personally can't see any big difference in the reporting between the two papers.
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It's the tone of the article. The Guardian is more considered than The Mail with it reporting the actual facts as known.

The Mail is actually the second biggest selling newspaper in the UK next to The Sun. Interestingly The Sun also claimed credit for campaigning to get Anne moved along with a couple of other tabloids.

Of course, this isn't the first animal campaign they fostered. In 1991 in colusion with the Born Free Foundation they managed to bully Marineland Morecambe and the then Brighton Aquarium which had recently be purchased by The Sealife Centre Group (now part of Merlin Entertainments) to give them their dolphins for a ill-fated release project in the Caribbean called Into The Blue. The amount of disinformation and lies they told at that time beggared belief.

The fate of these animals remain unknown despite the groups involved and The Brighton Sealife Centre saying it was successful. A documentary on the project was made by the BBC Wildlife Showcase and after complaints the Broadcasting Compliant Commission found it to be unfair in respect in six of the twelve instances claimed by complainants. The programme was never shown again. Full adjudication here.

All I can say is that it's a good job the Anne the elephant wasn't gay then that would have caused a dilemma for the Mail although she was Asian so we are lucky that got overlooked because know how much the Mail likes foreigners ;)

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In my opinion, the mail dislike traveling communities, settled or otherwise, and I think this extends to circus families.

I think it is valid that the hatred towards a travelling circus family be unpicked for elements of racism, of a kind.

I do think we need to remember, though, that the distress of an elderly couple who clearly miss a lifelong companion is not a marker for the welfare of the animal in question while she was with them. Yes, the threats should stop, but I think it was right that she retire in better facilities with the potential for bonds with other elephants, an enriching environment, and greater access to year-round outdoor space.

I am actually very happy to hear suggestions that Longleat are holding her because of a deal providing access to the Roberts family. With a Longleat representative having been quoted saying Anne appears to 'miss' her previous owners (regardless of how subjective this assessment is), I think it can be said that her current holders are making provisions for the family she has left in what I think is a joined up and compassionate way.
 
CritterBlog said:
Now Anne the elephant's fund soars to £100,000 as she takes on a new lease of life at safari park

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375084/Now-Anne-elephants-fund-soars-100-000.html
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She certainly look very animated and well in her new home. It would be interesting to video her when she next meets Bobby Roberts as I suspect she will be pleased to see him despite everything. I think it is very unfortunately he and his wife have been demonised by the Mail etal. It is also unfortunately that IAD still seem hell bent on prosecuting the Roberts whilst the person filmed abusing this animal has allegedly escaped the country. After all the Roberts agreed to give Anne up and after all that was the object of all this.

Interesting quote from The Mail

Her amazing improvement shows just how badly a safe haven in Britain is needed for mistreated elephants who are unable to travel abroad to wildlife sanctuaries.​

One has to ask where are these animals going to come from? She was after all the last circus elephant in the UK unless they are looking to Europe. Maybe, as suggested, they will now target the elephant in Wales. Obviously a different kind of circus has now rolled into town :(

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tetrapod said:
For what reason does she need to be housed seperately? Most facilities existing with elephants are able to seperate off individuals. I appreciate integrating a new individual into the 'herd' takes time but I'm not exactly sure why she would need to stay a solitary animal.

Not knowing the guy or his capabilities but why would the UK's leading elephant vet still be based in the Longleat area years after their last elephants left. Is he indeed the leading UK elephant vet or just an experienced elephant vet? Odd. Wondering whether this was media spin, but then I haven't taken to much notice of the exact wording in these 'press' releases.
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I happen to know "this guy" personally very well and believe me he IS the best elephant vet in the UK. He has recently joined Longleat as the Head of Animal Operations.
The very reasons why "Anne" went to Longleat are those I have mentioned, she needs to be kept on her own initially at least to be able to determine her condition and mental state, remembering that she has been kept alone for many years now. The decision to mix her with other elephants, or not, will obviously be taken thereafter.
 
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With the *minor* problem that she cannot be mixed with other elephants while she is in Longleat since they don`t have any. And it would take a miracle to ship in another female or two in the next months, considering that animal imports into the UK from mainland Europe seem to take a long, loooong time.

I do not like the current solution very much. I don`t like that she is still handled in free contact, neither. Her example proves that a GOOD facility with qualified staff, a lot of outdoor space and enough barn space to house serveral females (and not just 2 or 3) is very much needed in Europe. Longleat has a good idea with their "elephant sanctuary". Right now the only zoos still keeping older females are usually those with very outdated facilities and very few space. Belfast is actually one of the best, but with 4 females, they should be full right now.
 
In the UK, I'd say Blackpool's remaining three have done their time. If they're not going to get any more paddock access at Blackpool, I'd like to see them headed to Longleat too.

The other groups in this country are either breeding herds (Chester, Whipsnade, Twycross), intended to be (Woburn), or, as mentioned, good facilities for non-breeding cows (Belfast).
 
johnstoni said:
I'm also not convinced about the dynamics of introducing a very old animal to younger, dominant cows in a mixed group. I wonder if this has been attempted elsewhere?
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Melbourne's original cow was kept without female company for a very long time before they imported three younger females. The whole process went without a hitch, with the original, older cow, instantly taking the matriarchal role after being physically introduced after only a couple of days!

They now have two calfs in the group and you would never have known that the group had only been together for a few years.

Of course this was a best case scenario. But I think it shows that you can't predict the outcomes of social groupings when it comes to complicated animals like elephants and primates. You just have to be prepared give it a try and have a plan B, C and D.
 
What concerned me when Anne's move to Longleat was originally discussed was the possibility that she may have to be put to sleep if her arthritic condition was too bad. I was therefore pleased to read today that it won't be necessary to put her down as she is responding well to her new medication, I also think it would be a good idea for the Roberts visit this week to be recorded, it must have been a real shock to the system for Mr. Roberts this week, probably the first week in his life when he has been without elephants.
 
John Dineley said:
She certainly look very animated and well in her new home. It would be interesting to video her when she next meets Bobby Roberts as I suspect she will be pleased to see him despite everything. I think it is very unfortunately he and his wife have been demonised by the Mail etal. It is also unfortunately that IAD still seem hell bent on prosecuting the Roberts whilst the person filmed abusing this animal has allegedly escaped the country. After all the Roberts agreed to give Anne up and after all that was the object of all this.

Interesting quote from The Mail

Her amazing improvement shows just how badly a safe haven in Britain is needed for mistreated elephants who are unable to travel abroad to wildlife sanctuaries.​

One has to ask where are these animals going to come from? She was after all the last circus elephant in the UK unless they are looking to Europe. Maybe, as suggested, they will now target the elephant in Wales. Obviously a different kind of circus has now rolled into town :(

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Yes, that quote is rather ominous. It means either

a) they seriously think there are a number of mistreated elephants elsewhere in the UK (in which case I'd be interested to know where! You could argue the lone elephants at Skanda Vale and Paignton on grounds of lack of social stimulation, perhaps; beyond that I would suspect Blackpool would be the next target, somewhat unfairly)

b) they're publishing emotionally-loaded, self-aggrandising articles with no concern about whether they fit the facts. But a tabloid would never do that, surely...
 
peacock said:
Melbourne's original cow was kept without female company for a very long time before they imported three younger females. The whole process went without a hitch, with the original, older cow, instantly taking the matriarchal role after being physically introduced after only a couple of days!
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There's one difference- Melbourne's female was on her home turf- the younger ones came to her, not viceversa.

If this ex circus/Longleat female was to join another group at present she would have to go to them and might not get a good reception- or there again she might fit in fine! Whipsnade added an unrelated young female from Twycross to their group a couple of years ago, seemingly with no problem. Woburn have recently added a mature female to theirs also- I don't know how that has gone. Chester added a solitary mature female 'Birma' from France to their group a few years ago- she fitted in fine with their females too though she has now gone back to Europe again as she wasn't compatable with their herd bull.

I believe Anne is better off where she is- but with at least one companion acquired as soon as is practical if Longleat is going to be her permanent home.
 
johnstoni said:
In the UK, I'd say Blackpool's remaining three have done their time. If they're not going to get any more paddock access at Blackpool, I'd like to see them headed to Longleat too.

The other groups in this country are either breeding herds (Chester, Whipsnade, Twycross), intended to be (Woburn), or, as mentioned, good facilities for non-breeding cows (Belfast).
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The future of the elephants at Blackpool are already the subject of serious consideration as to their future according to staff at the zoo.
 
Nanook said:
The future of the elephants at Blackpool are already the subject of serious consideration as to their future according to staff at the zoo.
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Blackpool Zoo is owned by the Parques Reunidos group that own quite a number of aquariums and zoos in Europe and elsewhere. They could possibly move these elephants to their other parks.
 
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