Anti Zoo and Aquarium lobbying.

[dillotest0]

It's interesting you note they focus on large and popular animals when their latest report (whether one likes the content or not) actually focuses on mobile zoos and animals being carted around the country to jump off peoples heads for money (Chincillas as it happens were doing that, is that sensible or right?). I recommend reading it - some of it seems to me to be poor practice and I don't think it is right to have tortoises thrown about for fun. I don't agree with their overall agenda and highly biased content in some cases but they have documented some things which might concern any reasonable person. Three years since the thread was raised means they have written other things in the meantime.

They are also running a campaign to stop reindeer going to events to be patted etc - one can argue that as long as they are treated correctly this isn't a big deal but we would hopefully all want to see them cared for properly and is it a good thing to have reindeer in a xmas market or should they be in a zoo? Of course Freedom for animals would say neither (which I regard as a nonsense argument) but there is going to be a readership for this sort of campaign and perhaps it needs a better counter than 'these people are loonies'. Are animals simply there for our entertainment with few limits? I'd hope not myself.

I don't agree with these one agenda organisations, nor the overarching aim of this one but if we simply dismiss them and all they have to say as irrelevant because they think it we are probably just lowering ourselves to their level.

When I said 'focus' I was merely talking about what they do with regularity be there major campaign or otherwise. And usually those things focus on charismatic megafauna or animals easily recognisable.

I will say that with some points on 'mobile zoos' I find agreement reservedly. Many of them I think are profit-targeted businesses which inevitably leads to compromise in animal welfare.
But even so I don't think all ought to be swathed with the same brush. I am of belief that if properly done and proper welfare is provided then these can be good curriculum-hearted things for students to experience. Whether that means harsher welfare checks or restrictions on what species can be used for school display I'm not sure. [though I can agree that animals like meerkats and primates are not ideal on-the-go animals] I don't think the solution is to Cilit-Bang ['and the dirt is gone'] these businesses out of existence; nor do I think the solution is to let them go unchecked.

I wasn't supposing that these activists are loonies in the broad sense. For all I know these are people who care about what they care about and are skilled in cool things they happen to know. From what I know domestic reindeer are quite used to humans, and I hold the belief that reindeer hires are not all equal. Like any commercialised business there are better practices than others. But still part of me perhaps pettily worries that what these people are proposing would be another step towards nature being merely of the realm of the television. When endangered species are merely to be projected on the screen and not truly taken in in person. Domestic Reindeer are no longer overly common in larger collections in the UK; London, Marwell, Edinburgh and Chester have all gone out of them. In that regard maybe these events have a benefit of sorts. Though what would be ideal I think is more collections jumping onto the Forest Reindeer ship as Whipsnade has done. The events are not perfect I think, but there is some good in there I think also.

I don't wish to dismiss all and everything these organisations have to say... even if much of what they put out is the recruitment stew I described. But saying that from what I understand F4A is alone with Born Free with regards to broadly-anti-zoo organisations with mass appeal in the United Kingdom. And BF ostensibly works double as a conservationy sort of thing. My search for 'anti-zoo organisations UK' did lead me one more result though; 'Wild Welfare' - which itself is not an anti-zoo organisation but one that sees zoos a good part of the future that need to be improved in all parts of the world. And this I think is a healthy attitude to have. Not to Cilit Bang the thing out of existence, not to deregulate it completely, but rather to see what is right with it, what is wrong with it, what can be done.

 

[Strathmorezoo]

Freedom for Animals, recently joined forces with Advocates for Animals, to overturn the decision for Zoo2u to have a new zoo at Holmes Chapel in Cheshire. I said at the time that this could be a president that could affect future new zoo planning.

 

[Lafone]

When I said 'focus' I was merely talking about what they do with regularity be there major campaign or otherwise. And usually those things focus on charismatic megafauna or animals easily recognisable.

I will say that with some points on 'mobile zoos' I find agreement reservedly. Many of them I think are profit-targeted businesses which inevitably leads to compromise in animal welfare.
But even so I don't think all ought to be swathed with the same brush. I am of belief that if properly done and proper welfare is provided then these can be good curriculum-hearted things for students to experience. Whether that means harsher welfare checks or restrictions on what species can be used for school display I'm not sure. [though I can agree that animals like meerkats and primates are not ideal on-the-go animals] I don't think the solution is to Cilit-Bang ['and the dirt is gone'] these businesses out of existence; nor do I think the solution is to let them go unchecked.

I wasn't supposing that these activists are loonies in the broad sense. For all I know these are people who care about what they care about and are skilled in cool things they happen to know. From what I know domestic reindeer are quite used to humans, and I hold the belief that reindeer hires are not all equal. Like any commercialised business there are better practices than others. But still part of me perhaps pettily worries that what these people are proposing would be another step towards nature being merely of the realm of the television. When endangered species are merely to be projected on the screen and not truly taken in in person. Domestic Reindeer are no longer overly common in larger collections in the UK; London, Marwell, Edinburgh and Chester have all gone out of them. In that regard maybe these events have a benefit of sorts. Though what would be ideal I think is more collections jumping onto the Forest Reindeer ship as Whipsnade has done. The events are not perfect I think, but there is some good in there I think also.

I don't wish to dismiss all and everything these organisations have to say... even if much of what they put out is the recruitment stew I described. But saying that from what I understand F4A is alone with Born Free with regards to broadly-anti-zoo organisations with mass appeal in the United Kingdom. And BF ostensibly works double as a conservationy sort of thing. My search for 'anti-zoo organisations UK' did lead me one more result though; 'Wild Welfare' - which itself is not an anti-zoo organisation but one that sees zoos a good part of the future that need to be improved in all parts of the world. And this I think is a healthy attitude to have. Not to Cilit Bang the thing out of existence, not to deregulate it completely, but rather to see what is right with it, what is wrong with it, what can be done.

I agree good regulation and rules are the way forward for ensuring there are good standards for mobile zoos or indeed reindeer events. I would have the latter in a controlled zoo setting where the emphasis is on caring for the animals vs giving the public access to stroke them outside a supermarket so I would probably remove those on balance if it was up to me which it isn’t of course. But there are no examples that justify their call to ban captive animals outright. They do raise valid concerns in some areas though.

These anti captivity organisations don’t have any balance in what they suggest as outcomes and that’s the real issue with them - they only want one thing and that is to ban captivity altogether. If any mobile (or static) zoos have poor standards though they just fuel the fire and do no one any good so that is also not helping.

 

[Jurek7]

[bump apology]
if what these groups wanted was to see a future without these dancing bears, tortured monkeys, lonely elephants... I think they would attempt to put more pressure onto governments to introduce legislation against these

Europe including Britain already has such legislation since several decades. Anti-zoo groups try more, but run into a problem that legislators do not blindly trust random arguments.

They are also running a campaign to stop reindeer going to events to be patted etc - one can argue that

It would, of course, make sense if there was an informed opinion what is needed for a reindeer to be happy and what to avoid, and it was publicized for such events to follow. I suppose, many people in Scandinavia know welfare of domestic reindeer very well and could be consulted. Unfortunately, these organizations appear to be moved by their gut feeling instead.

I don't think the solution is to Cilit-Bang ['and the dirt is gone'] these businesses out of existence; nor do I think the solution is to let them go unchecked.

To be cynical, this can easily turn into activists simply trying to get a job as self-proclaimed animal welfare inspectors. In the worst case, this can turn into indirect strangling of zoos by making demands too difficult to follow, or making inspections cost money which goes directly off welfare of animals.