I do not wish to offend anyone and unreservedly apologise for any inconvenience caused. From this day forward I will use the terming Zoo Antwerpen only and would encourage any other posters on this forum to do the same.
ZOO Antwerpen Antwerp Zoo News 2020
- Thread starter Penshet
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But what when mixing Guenons and Mangabeys is the only way to maintain populations of a larger number of species of these primates. Many zoos are reluctant to create new enclosures solely for smaller African primates, but mixing them with gorillas increases capacity greatly if done well.
As @Kifaru Bwana said there are a number of ways in which risk can be greatly reduced and not every gorilla enclosure is suitable for a mix, but there are plenty of examples where it is successful
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
successful, so far...
If you are happy with a 'greatly reduced' risk, that is your opinion - it is not mine...
Yes, i have seen this... back in 2008. The Zoo held Gorilla's together with the rare Cercopithecus hamlyni/ Hamlyn's monkey! Unfortunately not in one picture, due to the scared guenon at the time.
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Interesting! Thanks very much for uploading these pics. Do you have more information about what specifically ended up happening to the monkey?
One individual was grabbed by the tail (not killed or hurt further)... and i think that was the end of the experiment in Antwerp. The Hamlyn's monkeys were too scared. It was only visible for a short time.
Hamlyn's are far too rare/valuable in zoos to be risked in this way IMO. I think its irresponsible of any zoo to exhibit them like this- and being a rather nervous species probably frightened of the gorillas meaning they were likely very stressed as well...bad management.
Normally gorilla's are known to be a very calm species, so I do understand why you would consider exhibiting them with Hamlyn's. After all it has worked with similar species. They might better have tried this with the colobus they have, but this is not a result to expect.
The reason why this failed so horribly is as already mentioned suspected to be in the younger years of Amahoro, the gorilla in question who killed the monkey. She lived along chimps for some time, and has apparently learned their hunting behavior. In newspaper articles regarding here arrival this is actually listed as the reason they needed a new home for her. The facility where she was in specialized in chimps.
She chased the monkey around the exhibit apparently. One individual actually did die in the end, they retrieved it with a broken spine. After that they discontinued the combination and the Hamlyn's moved back to the monkey house. As long as she is alive any other combination would probably only be good to get rid of surplus animals
The reason why this failed so horribly is as already mentioned suspected to be in the younger years of Amahoro, the gorilla in question who killed the monkey. She lived along chimps for some time, and has apparently learned their hunting behavior. In newspaper articles regarding here arrival this is actually listed as the reason they needed a new home for her. The facility where she was in specialized in chimps.
She chased the monkey around the exhibit apparently. One individual actually did die in the end, they retrieved it with a broken spine. After that they discontinued the combination and the Hamlyn's moved back to the monkey house. As long as she is alive any other combination would probably only be good to get rid of surplus animals
Which is exactly the reason they should not do a retry (with perhaps more dramatic consequences).
I doubt the chimps did any hunting in wherever they lived in a captive situation. It is only seen in wild groups. I know other gorillas that have never seen a chimp that have killed monkeys in shared enclosures. I think it just happened to be Amohoro who was involved, no background reason necessary.
Rats, mice,... even in indoor exhibits there are almost always things to hunt and those chimps in there were from wild origin. Besides that the centre was located in Africa, so if any outside enclosures were available occasional galago's entering the exhibit are also not impossible. Maybe even some unfortunate birds got caught up.
Yes, but killing monkeys is a whole different ball game. They hunt them using a planned technique. But as I said, I know other gorillas that have killed a monkey without ever seeing chimps.
Do you think that chimps really make a difference between monkeys and other mammals? I mean food is food and every hunt must be planned in a way...Last year in Brno (CZE) captive-born and bottle-raised chimp male killed black lemur that got into his enclosure.
No. What I meant was Monkeys are larger, faster and can fight back, unlike small mammals and birds. Which is presumably why in the wild Chimps use co-operation among group members to catch them. In a zoo obviously there's a very different scenario, a single chimp could overpower and kill a monkey which cannot escape- as can a single gorilla. All I'm trying to suggest is there is probably very little connection between Amahoro having been kept with chimps in the past, and any aggression she showed toward a monkey many years later on.
Today animal rights extremists organized a protest in front of the entrance to Antwerp Zoo. Their basic argument was that humans are now coming out of lockdown, but that zoo animals are in lockdown for life. They chose today as the zoo reopened (with reservation) to the general public today. They demanded a statement from the animal welfare minister on the future of zoos, the closure of all zoos in Belgium and the transfer of subsidies for zoos to conservation and rehabilitation projects.
The protest was illegal as it was not authorized by the city of Antwerp nor allowed under the remaining coronavirus containment regulations.
Fifteen participants quickly left when spoken to, but five people in animal suits went a step further with what the articles call a lock-on protest. One activist got into a dog crate, four others chained themselves into some sort of concrete box/block. They had to call in a specialized federal police team to end the lock-on protest, but the activists ended it themselves before being arrested.
According to one article the police at some point placed screens around the chained activists to draw attention away from their protest - and in that I would say the Antwerp police surely did right.
They will be fined for an unauthorized protest and for participating in a forbidding gathering under the coronavirus containment rules, and will have to pay for the police intervention. They will get a bill, but I still find it quite unsatisfactory that they will be released again today (or already have) or tomorrow morning at the latest, rather than being locked up in jail, and that they will only have to pay some fines and bills rather than having to answer for their disgusting actions in a criminal court. It is a little beyond me that unauthorized protests and gatherings in coronavirus times are not dealt with far more harshly by the justice system.
I really cannot stand these useless extremist idiots who have never done a positive thing for humans or animals. I also find it pretty disgusting that they would find the closure of zoos a priority when the world is dealing with a pandemic and a massive economic crisis...
Mensen in dierenpakken protesteren aan Antwerpse Zoo
Activisten blokkeren de Zoo
Vijf diehard dierenactivisten aan Zoo aangehouden
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The protest was illegal as it was not authorized by the city of Antwerp nor allowed under the remaining coronavirus containment regulations.
Fifteen participants quickly left when spoken to, but five people in animal suits went a step further with what the articles call a lock-on protest. One activist got into a dog crate, four others chained themselves into some sort of concrete box/block. They had to call in a specialized federal police team to end the lock-on protest, but the activists ended it themselves before being arrested.
According to one article the police at some point placed screens around the chained activists to draw attention away from their protest - and in that I would say the Antwerp police surely did right.
They will be fined for an unauthorized protest and for participating in a forbidding gathering under the coronavirus containment rules, and will have to pay for the police intervention. They will get a bill, but I still find it quite unsatisfactory that they will be released again today (or already have) or tomorrow morning at the latest, rather than being locked up in jail, and that they will only have to pay some fines and bills rather than having to answer for their disgusting actions in a criminal court. It is a little beyond me that unauthorized protests and gatherings in coronavirus times are not dealt with far more harshly by the justice system.
I really cannot stand these useless extremist idiots who have never done a positive thing for humans or animals. I also find it pretty disgusting that they would find the closure of zoos a priority when the world is dealing with a pandemic and a massive economic crisis...
Mensen in dierenpakken protesteren aan Antwerpse Zoo
Activisten blokkeren de Zoo
Vijf diehard dierenactivisten aan Zoo aangehouden
Privacy settings
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Please be careful calling people "useless", "idiots", "disgusting" etc. You don't like what they stand for in this specific situation - that's fine. However, that doesn't undermine their humanity and anything else that they have done that you might not know about. It is also very easy for you to have a say in what people should prioritize right now, when everybody has their own reasons to prioritize whatever they find important.
A jail sentence for everyone having a very passive protest is not only ridiculous, but also completely unfeasible.
We've heard this opinion coming from you time and time again, and honestly it's getting old. Democracy and the right to protest exist for a reason, and have made the world a much better place - But yes, occasionally there will be some protests that you don't resonate with.
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I will admit that I was overly immoderate in my previous posts and I apologize for using terms like useless idiots. I probably got carried a way a bit after reading social media comments on the protest (which I will say went a lot further than calling the protesters idiots who should be yeeted in jail). I should have been more moderate and I should have considered the wording of my post more carefully.
If anyone thinks my post went too far they can always report it to the moderating team so action can be taken against me.
That said, while I do believe in freedom of speech, even for views I find very disturbing such as animals rights view, I cannot and will not have any tolerance for protests that are illegal under city public order codes AND the coronavirus containment regulations. And while jailtime might be over the top, I maintain my view that these protesters should get punished far more severely than some minor times and a bill from the police. I would say the same if the protest was one I agreed with - while I believe that protests should be allowed in a democratic country, the rules have to be followed, especially in times like the current.
Also, these animal rights people are extremists who generally do not believe in democracy - they want to force everyone to live according to their vegan laws that do not allow any human use of or interaction with animals - and if they got the chance to do so they would do it with force and possibly violently. I don't think democracies should show too much tolerance for anti-democratic extremist views. These people want zoos to be forced out of existence, and their views about people like us would likely be quite aggressive. So I don't think we should treat them with kid gloves on here when discussing them on here, though I guess we should recognize they are humans allowed to have a view, however stupid and threatening it may be.
Lastly I believe the animal rights ideology and its followers have little to contribute to the improvement of society and the world. I don't think much good has yet come from organizations like PETA, BiteBack, Animal Resistance, Animal Liberation Front or whatever these people call themselves.
That said, I think it would be best if I abstained from commenting on animal rights activists and their actions here on ZooChat in the future. For the time being I am not going to allow myself to post on animal rights on here at all. And I will never be allowing myself to post an opinion on them again as I cannot word those opinions in an appropriate way.
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Zoo Antwerp has allowed both members as tourists (day-tickets) since yesterday. In the last two weeks only members were welcome.The Zoo limited their number of visitors to 30% of the maximum capacity. Just like Planckendael.
In Zoo Antwerp this means 3000 simultaneous visitors (for 11ha). In Planckendael 6000 people (for 46ha).
In comparison:
Pairi Daiza accepts 20% of the capacity or 6000 people (for 75ha). Blijdorp (Netherlands) stops at 5000 people (for 28ha).
In Zoo Antwerp this means 3000 simultaneous visitors (for 11ha). In Planckendael 6000 people (for 46ha).
In comparison:
Pairi Daiza accepts 20% of the capacity or 6000 people (for 75ha). Blijdorp (Netherlands) stops at 5000 people (for 28ha).
The elderly African lioness Caitlin has died in the lion exhibit at Zoo Antwerpen, presumably following a stroke. She would have been 19 next month and had been suffering old age-related health issues before.
Caitlin was born in Antwerp in 2001 and her death leaves only her brother Nestor (born in 2012) in the lion exhibit. The message linked below said that the zoo hopes to welcome a new female partner for Nestor in the future.
ZOO Antwerpen
Caitlin was born in Antwerp in 2001 and her death leaves only her brother Nestor (born in 2012) in the lion exhibit. The message linked below said that the zoo hopes to welcome a new female partner for Nestor in the future.
ZOO Antwerpen
Three female American alligators (Alligator mississippiensis) aged 16 have recently arrived at Antwerp and have moved into the crocodilian exhibit in the reptile house. The alligators were craned in through an opening made in the reptile house roof.
The animals came from a facility in Paris, France where renovations are taking place, and according to the article linked below Antwerp's caimans will be moved to that facility.
The animals will be on show starting next week.
I am honestly a little surprised that they chosen to house large crocodilians again after transferring their Nile crocodiles to Rotterdam in 2008. That seems to be a bit of a regression in terms of animal husbandry progress to me - and I also think the crocodilian exhibit in the reptile house is perhaps a little on the small side for large crocodilians, even though American alligators are a bit smaller than Nile crocodiles.
Antwerpse Zoo verwelkomt drie Mississipi-alligators via het dak
The animals came from a facility in Paris, France where renovations are taking place, and according to the article linked below Antwerp's caimans will be moved to that facility.
The animals will be on show starting next week.
I am honestly a little surprised that they chosen to house large crocodilians again after transferring their Nile crocodiles to Rotterdam in 2008. That seems to be a bit of a regression in terms of animal husbandry progress to me - and I also think the crocodilian exhibit in the reptile house is perhaps a little on the small side for large crocodilians, even though American alligators are a bit smaller than Nile crocodiles.