ARAZPA / ZAA
- Thread starter Jarkari
- Start date
That I cannot answer. There is nothing specific on the program, but there are a couple of business sessions where it could come up. All I know is that a few months ago I completed a survey form with a number of questions that basically could have been summarised as "Is it all right with you if we make things simpler?". I'll give a report at the end of the week.
From the DDZ perspective:
* I have been at a conference where an ARAZPA representative said clearly that only Government owned zoos will ever be allowed to keep Gorillas and Orangs. That has since been refined to mean the big 4.
* I have been told by the ARAZPA TAG rep at the time that I will never get Red Pandas for my zoo.
* However, you will be relieved to know that an ARAZPA employee did tell a conference once that ARAZPA was not elitist - but it does have some elitist members. Unfortunately they are the major zoos that run the outfit!
* The DDZ recognises that ARAZPA is not perfect but it is [currently] the only game in town. We are very eager to join the Association and participate in Species Management Programs and contribute to meaningful conservation initiatives. However, we will always have our say in matters that affect us or on which we have strong views. The delay in processing our applications is unacceptable and is indicative of a poorly resourced or administered association. The commercial world would not, and could not, tolerate such a situation continuing for as long as it has. Fortunately, the Association is taking some steps to try and address the current situation so I will refrain from further comment until after the conference.
* Although I can understand Zoopro's frustration at the carping on ZooChat about an Association to which he has devoted so much of his life, I would encourage people like ZYB and CGS to continue to do so. That way misconceptions can be aired and corrected and legitimate criticisms may be heard by the Association.
* I have been at a conference where an ARAZPA representative said clearly that only Government owned zoos will ever be allowed to keep Gorillas and Orangs. That has since been refined to mean the big 4.
* I have been told by the ARAZPA TAG rep at the time that I will never get Red Pandas for my zoo.
* However, you will be relieved to know that an ARAZPA employee did tell a conference once that ARAZPA was not elitist - but it does have some elitist members. Unfortunately they are the major zoos that run the outfit!
* The DDZ recognises that ARAZPA is not perfect but it is [currently] the only game in town. We are very eager to join the Association and participate in Species Management Programs and contribute to meaningful conservation initiatives. However, we will always have our say in matters that affect us or on which we have strong views. The delay in processing our applications is unacceptable and is indicative of a poorly resourced or administered association. The commercial world would not, and could not, tolerate such a situation continuing for as long as it has. Fortunately, the Association is taking some steps to try and address the current situation so I will refrain from further comment until after the conference.
* Although I can understand Zoopro's frustration at the carping on ZooChat about an Association to which he has devoted so much of his life, I would encourage people like ZYB and CGS to continue to do so. That way misconceptions can be aired and corrected and legitimate criticisms may be heard by the Association.
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The recent ARR for Sumatran Orang-utans (written in August 2009) stated that National Zoo will be acquiring a group of orangs in the (relatively) near future.
Thankyou to Sim for restoring the majority of this thread. I appreciate it.
@Lou - this is wonderful news for NZA, which I last visited on New Year's Day. I do feel that the zoo is unfairly maligned a little on this forum. The orangs - as well as long-planned rhinos whenever that happens - will give the zoo a hearty kick-along.
@Lou - this is wonderful news for NZA, which I last visited on New Year's Day. I do feel that the zoo is unfairly maligned a little on this forum. The orangs - as well as long-planned rhinos whenever that happens - will give the zoo a hearty kick-along.
Thankyou to Sim for restoring the majority of this thread. I appreciate it.
@Lou - this is wonderful news for NZA, which I last visited on New Year's Day. I do feel that the zoo is unfairly maligned a little on this forum. The orangs - as well as long-planned rhinos whenever that happens - will give the zoo a hearty kick-along.
Probably after the hotel and new savannah are built. there isn't much room at NZA currently, although I did hear they were recently doing alot of work on the perimeter fence for the new section.
Back to ARAZPA - I was at a talk a while ago to introduce Cameron Kerr - the New (and in my personal opinion much better) CEO of TCSA. In this talk he spoke of alot but of most interest to me and in relation to this topic he spoke of the comitment of TCSA AND ARAZPA in trying to improve things for all zoos, members and not within. It appears that it is the view of TCSA and ARAZPA that the zoo community in Australia is under represented and seriously neglected in Australia compared to other industries. I agree. They are however trying to give the whole zoo community in Australia a voice and a presence at alot of government (state and federal events conferences etc. We can criticise (and I am still criticial of the organisation) but it is all we have and they are currently doing their best.
Again this is an organisation I am completely unsure of but we will see how things progress in the future.
I know some of you are keen to know what happened with accreditation so here is a quick run-down. Basically no change to the accreditation scheme. All current members will have to become accredited to maintain full membership. If they don't want to be accredited they can step back to being associate members.
However associate zoo members will have to pass "accreditation lite". Basically this will require the zoo to 1. fill in a survey relating to welfare practices at that zoo, 2. pass an inspection from a suitable third party, ie the local RSPCA, and 3. receive a favourable report from the relevant licensing body. In other words the ZAA will be looking for a reasonable standard of animal welfare and compliance with regulations.
The differences between being an associate and a full zoo member seem to be mostly associate members cannot vote and will have limited access to program animals. Effectively they will be limited to animals surplus to programs. OTOH there will be a total ban on passing program animals on to non-members. There are currently 106 program species, 40 Australian native, 31 New Zealand native, and 36 exotic. There is no limit to them receiving non-program animals, however.
New members will firstly have to pass the "accreditation lite", then are enrolled as associate members. They can then progress to full accreditation and full membership. Before you ask I have no idea how this affects DDZ, but at least it provides a pathway which did not exist prior.
There are currently 69 full members, of whom 25 have accreditation, one does not yet meet the standard, and 43 have not entered the accreditation process. In addition it was announced that ZAA is moving to fully integrate the Queensland branch, and when that happens there will be about 90 members. ZAA expects about 25 of those that have not yet been accredited to move into that process, and the remainder will opt to become associate members. This would give a split of about 50 full members and 40 associate members. They would expect to finish accrediting these current members over the next three years. OTOH there is nothing to stop every member to progress to accreditation if they wish, however that would obviously considerably delay the process of getting everybody accredited.
It must be said that the accreditation process is fully supported, IE they want zoos to pass, and will support and advise a zoo in making the necessary changes to get there. If you don't make it through once, you can try again, and again.
That is basically the facts as I see them. I'll leave the commentary to others.
However associate zoo members will have to pass "accreditation lite". Basically this will require the zoo to 1. fill in a survey relating to welfare practices at that zoo, 2. pass an inspection from a suitable third party, ie the local RSPCA, and 3. receive a favourable report from the relevant licensing body. In other words the ZAA will be looking for a reasonable standard of animal welfare and compliance with regulations.
The differences between being an associate and a full zoo member seem to be mostly associate members cannot vote and will have limited access to program animals. Effectively they will be limited to animals surplus to programs. OTOH there will be a total ban on passing program animals on to non-members. There are currently 106 program species, 40 Australian native, 31 New Zealand native, and 36 exotic. There is no limit to them receiving non-program animals, however.
New members will firstly have to pass the "accreditation lite", then are enrolled as associate members. They can then progress to full accreditation and full membership. Before you ask I have no idea how this affects DDZ, but at least it provides a pathway which did not exist prior.
There are currently 69 full members, of whom 25 have accreditation, one does not yet meet the standard, and 43 have not entered the accreditation process. In addition it was announced that ZAA is moving to fully integrate the Queensland branch, and when that happens there will be about 90 members. ZAA expects about 25 of those that have not yet been accredited to move into that process, and the remainder will opt to become associate members. This would give a split of about 50 full members and 40 associate members. They would expect to finish accrediting these current members over the next three years. OTOH there is nothing to stop every member to progress to accreditation if they wish, however that would obviously considerably delay the process of getting everybody accredited.
It must be said that the accreditation process is fully supported, IE they want zoos to pass, and will support and advise a zoo in making the necessary changes to get there. If you don't make it through once, you can try again, and again.
That is basically the facts as I see them. I'll leave the commentary to others.
Wow. Ok. Some questions. If you don't know the answers, that's cool. Thanks for the prompt report back, btw.
1. Will all ARAZPAQ members become associate members by default, or full members?
2. Do I understand that associate members will be able to access individuals from program species that are not required for breeding? For example a gelded zebra could go to an associate member, but not a genetically valued mare?
3. Is there, do you know, a minimum period for zoos to be eligible for full accreditation after becoming associates?
4. What is the cost difference between the two forms of membership for zoos?
5. Can you post the list of zoos that have been accredited thus far?
6. What does a "favourable" report from the licensing body mean? Is it simply a confirmation from the relevant department that the zoo is fully licensed to operate and compliant with the requirements of that license?
7. Which zoo doesn't currently meet accreditation standards?
1. Will all ARAZPAQ members become associate members by default, or full members?
2. Do I understand that associate members will be able to access individuals from program species that are not required for breeding? For example a gelded zebra could go to an associate member, but not a genetically valued mare?
3. Is there, do you know, a minimum period for zoos to be eligible for full accreditation after becoming associates?
4. What is the cost difference between the two forms of membership for zoos?
5. Can you post the list of zoos that have been accredited thus far?
6. What does a "favourable" report from the licensing body mean? Is it simply a confirmation from the relevant department that the zoo is fully licensed to operate and compliant with the requirements of that license?
7. Which zoo doesn't currently meet accreditation standards?
A couple from me:
As the RSPCA is opposed to privately owned zoos why is it required to give a recommendation? Who do we turn to instead?
I understand that a requirement for membership application is that a new zoo has to be vouched for by a member zoo who is already accredited. There are only about 25 of these and none of the Queensland ones will vouch for an opposition zoo in this State. The interstate one that I have already approached is reluctant to vouch for us as they have never seen our zoo and know that ZAA quiz them big time about their support for us. Who do we turn to instead?
What will the costs be? The agenda item said coyly that fees will be at the determination of the Board. Have those fees now been determined and, if so, what are they?
Thanks.
As the RSPCA is opposed to privately owned zoos why is it required to give a recommendation? Who do we turn to instead?
I understand that a requirement for membership application is that a new zoo has to be vouched for by a member zoo who is already accredited. There are only about 25 of these and none of the Queensland ones will vouch for an opposition zoo in this State. The interstate one that I have already approached is reluctant to vouch for us as they have never seen our zoo and know that ZAA quiz them big time about their support for us. Who do we turn to instead?
What will the costs be? The agenda item said coyly that fees will be at the determination of the Board. Have those fees now been determined and, if so, what are they?
Thanks.
ZYBen
Well-Known Member
I wonder if it will end up just the big boys in the acreddited club, and then the rest all on the outside.
I find the whole "We are hapy to take your animals but you arent getting anything back" with non-ZAA zoo's more eliteism. Atleast now its a confrimation of what we knew was going on.
I find the whole "We are hapy to take your animals but you arent getting anything back" with non-ZAA zoo's more eliteism. Atleast now its a confrimation of what we knew was going on.
Geez Ben. At least wait for the paint to dry before attacking the new approach. I hope that this is the breakthrough that DDZ has been waiting too long for.
Patience ZYBen!
Read the whole deal before jumping to conclusions! Ahh - to be young and eager again!!!
I will wait until MRJ reports again [for which I thank him] or until I hear directly from ZAA.
However, my initial concerns relate to the RSPCA requirement which it is unable to give us, the requirement that only accredited zoos can vouch for an applicant [given that there are so few of them and that so few of the few are small zoos] and the likely cost.
"Associate" members should probably be let in for free as they will be performing the very useful service of taking in all the unwanted surplus - thus saving the industry from potentially embarrasing euthanasias. These surplus animals will undoubtedly be desexed.
I am predicting that there will be huge difference in fees for "Associate" and "Full Members" but let's wait until the ink dries and we can establish just where the devil is in the detail.
Steve, does the animal welfare league operate in Queensland? In NSW their inspectors have the same powers as the RSPCA but here they are less close minded, atleast the ones I have dealt with are.
If not I wonder if a report from an inspector would suffice, inspectors seem again to be more open minded than the organisation ad a whole. But I'm not sure how it works up there as RSPCA here is governed by the same body as zoos.
If not I wonder if a report from an inspector would suffice, inspectors seem again to be more open minded than the organisation ad a whole. But I'm not sure how it works up there as RSPCA here is governed by the same body as zoos.
No Animal Welfare League in Queensland.
The RSPCA Inspectors in this State are usually quite practical, animal savvy people and would give us the required tick without any problem. They have an open invitation to drop in here at any time [which they sometimes do] as we have nothing to hide. The problem will be with their bosses - the management team back in Brisbane. As you know, RSPCA policy is against private zoos so they are unlikely to allow the inspectors to give us what the ZAA now requires. You may also know that the RSPCA will never give you a copy of their inspection reports, favourable or otherwise, so we are not likely to get an endorsement from them for ZAA.
As an aside - the production company that films RSPCA Animal Rescue spent some time here a year or so back filming a good news story about the zoo and some of the rescued and rehab animal work that we do here. This included a piece about an Ostrich that the RSPCA had rescued and restored to health and then placed here with us. It was a really good story but it was never allowed to go to air because it was pro zoo and thus against RSPCA policy.
Wow. Ok. Some questions. If you don't know the answers, that's cool. Thanks for the prompt report back, btw.
1. Will all ARAZPAQ members become associate members by default, or full members?
As I understand it, associate members, but I am not totally clear on that point. Keeping in mind there are a number of ZAAQ members that are already full members of ZAA.
Basically yes. Or old devils, or animals bred outside recommendations etc.
There is no minimum or maximum period, as far as I know. The minimum would be related to the work load of the accreditation committee I suspect.
At the moment Associate members pay $750+gst per annum. Full members pay a sliding scale based on turnover that starts at $1000+gst per annum. I believe there are some zoos that pay membership fees in the vicinity of $150,000 per year.
No. One of the "gentlemens agreements" was that zoos would not use accreditation as a marketing tool until everyone had had an opportunity to apply. I guess you could find out by wading though various documents, as no attempt is made to keep it secret. Auckland Zoo were presented with their certificate at the conference, and I do know that Australian Reptile Park and Symbio Wildlife Park are both fully accredited, for instance.
That would be my understanding.
Don't know.
I guess that would be up to negotiation. Any body which could speak with authority on welfare issues. Just a thought that came off the top of my head, maybe a university or TAFE lecturer?
There was no mention of a requirement for associate zoo members to be vouched for by another zoo.
There had already been an announcement that a $1000 fee would be charged for full accreditation in the future (in the past it was free). My understanding is that the idea behind "accreditation lite" for associate zoos is that it would be free, at least from the ZAA perspective. There may be a charge from the RSPCA or whoever does the inspection.
Thank you MRJ.
It is very encouraging to see ZAA opening up the process - irrespective of what the motivation was.
For CGSwans I can point out that, if you receive the ZAA Newsletter [and you will if you are an individual member] you will find the list of currently accredited members as well as the one probationary member.
It is very encouraging to see ZAA opening up the process - irrespective of what the motivation was.
For CGSwans I can point out that, if you receive the ZAA Newsletter [and you will if you are an individual member] you will find the list of currently accredited members as well as the one probationary member.