Closed Archival Zoo Photos And Videos Allowed In The Galleries?

[Sarus Crane]

As someone who is interested in zoo history, are we allowed to post old photos from zoos in the galleries? I am asking this because as someone who does a lot of independent research (for fun), I have come across a lot of old black and white photos as well as a few video clips from zoos back in the day and feel it would not only be nice to have other ZooChatters see the history of zoos but also the fact that in a 21st Century digital environment where everything is becoming digitized and organized in a neatly assembled fashion, a site like ZooChat could be a treasure trove of archival images and a depository for researchers to easily access media and information on the world's zoos. Just think: in 50 years or more people are going to be wondering what a certain zoo or aquarium was like at the beginning of the 21st Century and they know that the site Zoochat exists. With the way the galleries are organized, it is easy for someone to access photos from a specific zoo and analyze it over time, like in a digital library or museum archive. If we could upload antique media, I believe this would be a great asset to ZooChat and the interested public as well (for the non-members who view the site). Old archival images could be found on Google or other search engines, posted in the galleries and include as much metadata as possible including name of photographer and specific date and year as well as possible names of animals, buildings, historic structures, etc... Since ZooChat is a free site I don't think we would be violating copyright as most copyright is expired on really old zoo photos and giving a link back to the original source would be giving the image owner/organization credit for their work. I know that the Rhino Resource Center does this with their website where they scan old articles and photos about rhinos as a digital archive for rhino researchers and anyone else. So what do you think? I just thought it was a cool idea. After all, we are documenting the world's zoos and the posts and media we are posting now will probably have historical value in the future.

 

[Simon Hampel]

Unfortunately, the assumption about old photos having expired copyright is both likely incorrect and also difficult to verify.

The penalties for publishing copyrighted material without permission - even if done in good faith or for non-commercial purposes - can still be substantial.

As such, this is not something I can really justify as much as I would love to do it.

However, I would definitely encourage people to post any old photos they themselves have taken (or their families have taken - if they have permission to upload them).

 

[Arizona Docent]

My previous career was at a full service photo lab (for 20 years) so I dealt regularly with people wanting to copy photos that were not theirs. I can speak of the policy in the United States. Photographs are copyrighted for 50 years after the death of the photographer. It used to be 25 years, but this was extended during the Clinton administration. After that, the photographs become Public Domain and can be used by anyone. Of course it is unlikely that we will know when the photographer died for most photos. But I think it is a safe bet that any photos from American zoos that are, say, a hundred years old are Public Domain and could IMO be posted.

 

[Sarus Crane]

My previous career was at a full service photo lab (for 20 years) so I dealt regularly with people wanting to copy photos that were not theirs. I can speak of the policy in the United States. Photographs are copyrighted for 50 years after the death of the photographer. It used to be 25 years, but this was extended during the Clinton administration. After that, the photographs become Public Domain and can be used by anyone. Of course it is unlikely that we will know when the photographer died for most photos. But I think it is a safe bet that any photos from American zoos that are, say, a hundred years old are Public Domain and could IMO be posted.

So photos before 1967 or those on Wikimedia (which are public domain) are ok to post? Thanks for the reply. Its very helpful!

 

[Shorts]

So photos before 1967 or those on Wikimedia (which are public domain) are ok to post? Thanks for the reply. Its very helpful!

No, that's not the case (did you read the previous posting or just skim it and assume an interpretation you liked the sound of?).

Photo's pre 1967 are not OK as, for instance, a photo could have been took in 1965 by someone who's still alive (copyright's for 50 years after death).

Arizona Docent's conclusion that anything over 100 years old would probably be OK is probably (but not certainly) correct -but it assumes that whoever took the photograph died within 50 years of taking it -this is highly likely but not certain. e.g. a photo could have been taken by a photographer, aged 27, in 1917 who didn't die until 1980 (aged 90) -this photo wouldn't be out of copyright until 2030.

 

[Sarus Crane]

No, that's not the case (did you read the previous posting or just skim it and assume an interpretation you liked the sound of?).

Photo's pre 1967 are not OK as, for instance, a photo could have been took in 1965 by someone who's still alive (copyright's for 50 years after death).

Arizona Docent's conclusion that anything over 100 years old would probably be OK is probably (but not certainly) correct -but it assumes that whoever took the photograph died within 50 years of taking it -this is highly likely but not certain. e.g. a photo could have been taken by a photographer, aged 27, in 1917 who didn't die until 1980 (aged 90) -this photo wouldn't be out of copyright until 2030.

Yeah, I didn't think about that part. Ok. I understand it now. Thanks for your clarification.

 

[Chlidonias]

Yeah, I didn't think about that part. Ok. I understand it now. Thanks for your clarification.

what you need to do is read the first reply in the thread, by Simon Hampel. He is the site administrator (he owns Zoochat) so what he says on this subject is what you follow with regards to Zoochat content.

 

[Simon Hampel]

The key point being that it can be pretty much impossible to verify the copyright status of these photos - even if they are very old - and assumptions aren't good enough.

If we can get submissions from people who have taken photos themselves (or a family member has), that would be acceptable. The biggest issue is that the further back you go, the fewer cameras there would have been and thus the fewer photographs there would be around of some of these institutions.

I would love to be able to show historic comparisons of various aspects of zoos (eg the entrance or a well known enclosure) - I think it would be very interesting and educational. But we have to do it correctly.