Are we going to end up with a bunch of polar bearless-polar bear exhibits?

DavidBrown

DavidBrown

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
There is a nice overview of the new St. Louis Zoo polar bear exhibit that they are starting here: Details: A Look Into Polar Bear Habitat at Saint Louis Zoo CBS St. Louis

The major detail that it overlooks is that the zoo has no polar bears for the exhibit. The same problem is facing the North Carolina Zoo.

The Hogle Zoo has a new polar bear exhibit with one elderly animal in it.

The Central Park Zoo now has an empty polar bear exhibit that isn't state-of-the-art any longer, but could still maybe be adequate if they wanted to retain the species.

What is the likely polar bear end-game for American zoos? Are we going to end up with a bunch of zoos with modern polar bear exhibits that they need to use for brown bears or other species?

Is it likely that the USFWS will start allowing orphaned or injured polar bears to be brought into the zoo world or are there enough captive bred individuals being produced that in time there will be a large enough population to repopulate these new exhibits?
 
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DavidBrown said:
There is a nice overview of the new St. Louis Zoo polar bear exhibit that they are starting here: Details: A Look Into Polar Bear Habitat at Saint Louis Zoo CBS St. Louis

The major detail that it overlooks is that the zoo has no polar bears for the exhibit. The same problem is facing the North Carolina Zoo.

The Hogle Zoo has a new polar bear exhibit with one elderly animal in it.

The Central Park Zoo now has an empty polar bear exhibit that isn't state-of-the-art any longer, but could still maybe be adequate if they wanted to retain the species.

What is the likely polar bear end-game for American zoos? Are we going to end up with a bunch of zoos with modern polar bear exhibits that they need to use for brown bears or other species?

Is it likely that the USFWS will start allowing orphaned or injured polar bears to be brought into the zoo world or are there enough captive bred individuals be produced that in time there will be a large enough population to repopulate these new exhibits?
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St. Louis' new exhibit is small in land and pool size. I don't think it is adequate for Polar Bears. North Carolina has a male at Milwaukee Zoo, but he is older. A lot of polar bears are older in US Zoos and with breeding not being done often or successful, things do not look good.
Hogle Zoos exhibit is really nice. Central Park, not so much. It should be repurposed for another type of animal.
Some Zoos still have poor exhibits for polar bears. Compare them to Detroit, Como, Columbus and Hogle and they are way too small. Polar bear SSP, and other organizations should look at all Zoos with Polar bears and move animals to exhibits that are adequate and conducive to increasing numbers. Some bears are so old they should remain as to not compromise their health with moving them. Zoos know the current situation with polar bears and should not bank on building new exhibits for them. Brown bears are good replacements. The USFWS should not accomodate the quotta that zoos are looking to fill in their new exhibits. Buffalo, Henry Vilas and St. Louis should move on from polar bears and exhibit something else. I don't think St. Louis should get polar bears due to how small the exhibit is and their climate. It is not suitable unless they expand on the size and cover the exhibit like penguin and puffin coast. Buffalo doesn't even have the money to build their complex. They should bow out and focus on their elephants. Henry Vilas, I've never visited, but they should just do grizzly bears and other northern animals.
 
Gulo gulo said:
St. Louis' new exhibit is small in land and pool size. I don't think it is adequate for Polar Bears. North Carolina has a male at Milwaukee Zoo, but he is older. A lot of polar bears are older in US Zoos and with breeding not being done often or successful, things do not look good.
Hogle Zoos exhibit is really nice. Central Park, not so much. It should be repurposed for another type of animal.
Some Zoos still have poor exhibits for polar bears. Compare them to Detroit, Como, Columbus and Hogle and they are way too small. Polar bear SSP, and other organizations should look at all Zoos with Polar bears and move animals to exhibits that are adequate and conducive to increasing numbers. Some bears are so old they should remain as to not compromise their health with moving them. Zoos know the current situation with polar bears and should not bank on building new exhibits for them. Brown bears are good replacements. The USFWS should not accomodate the quotta that zoos are looking to fill in their new exhibits. Buffalo, Henry Vilas and St. Louis should move on from polar bears and exhibit something else. I don't think St. Louis should get polar bears due to how small the exhibit is and their climate. It is not suitable unless they expand on the size and cover the exhibit like penguin and puffin coast. Buffalo doesn't even have the money to build their complex. They should bow out and focus on their elephants. Henry Vilas, I've never visited, but they should just do grizzly bears and other northern animals.
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I don't think the Hogle exhibit is any larger than what they are doing in St Louis.
 
It's really a shame US zoos cant take Canadian bears anymore. We have very few spaces for polar bears (maybe 4 or so places) but Toronto has 3 breeding age bears. Female Nikita has yet to reproduce (could change very soon). Her sister Aurora has delivered 8 cubs (only one of which has survived her lets say poor care). And male Inukshuk has fathered all 8 cubs plus at least 2 others at another institution. Hes a proven wild born male who could be moved to the states to try on US females, especially since the birth of any cubs this fall might mean an end to our successful (in terms of numbers and ability to produce cubs not their actual surival) breeding program.

Winnipeg is also welcoming a young male bear who attacked a person in Churchill Manitoba. His genetics will be much sought after but given our small population it might not amount to much. But there are several bears at a holding facility in Churchill waiting for the ice to release them (other less violent problem bears). They could be used to boost the population. Particularly males who could donate their genetic material if AI worked on polar bears.
 
DavidBrown said:
There is a nice overview of the new St. Louis Zoo polar bear exhibit that they are starting here: Details: A Look Into Polar Bear Habitat at Saint Louis Zoo CBS St. Louis

The major detail that it overlooks is that the zoo has no polar bears for the exhibit. The same problem is facing the North Carolina Zoo.

The Hogle Zoo has a new polar bear exhibit with one elderly animal in it.

The Central Park Zoo now has an empty polar bear exhibit that isn't state-of-the-art any longer, but could still maybe be adequate if they wanted to retain the species.

What is the likely polar bear end-game for American zoos? Are we going to end up with a bunch of zoos with modern polar bear exhibits that they need to use for brown bears or other species?

Is it likely that the USFWS will start allowing orphaned or injured polar bears to be brought into the zoo world or are there enough captive bred individuals being produced that in time there will be a large enough population to repopulate these new exhibits?
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I'm tempted to say "welcome to my world"! South of the Scottish Highlands (which at least 98% of the population of the UK is) Polar Bears are represented by one animal held in a private zoo in Oxfordshire, which is open maybe one day a year to the general public.

We are reliably warned about the impact of global warming and the disappearance of the Arctic ice cap, yet the welfare lobby and PC zoo management are apparently preventing the display of the most iconic flagship species of all.:rolleyes:
 
I have long pondered what will become of polar bears in American zoos and this thread sums up many of my feelings. It is astonishing that Saint Louis Zoo is forking over $15 million for an exhibit that may not even include the iconic white bear; North Carolina Zoo has spent $8.5 million on upgrading its polar bear enclosure and there have been news releases detailing the fact that grizzlies may be involved; Oregon Zoo has plans in a few years to upgrade its own polar bear exhibit but both of its bears will likely be deceased as they are already elderly; and the list goes on!

Henry Vilas Zoo and Buffalo Zoo have expensive additions planned to their "Arctic-themed" zones in the shape of bears, and Buffalo seem the best situated at the moment. Point Defiance Zoo has plans to dramatically overhaul its own polar bear exhibit that is now 30 years old but that Tacoma facility has 3 males and finding a female might be extremely difficult. Another interesting fact is that many of the fairly new polar bear exhibits are not even anything extraordinary and are actually all a bit on the small side. Kansas City, Toledo (even with the breeding success there), Hogle, Pittsburgh and Como have all built new exhibits in the past 8 years and while they all have some cool elements to them none are world-class. Arctic Ring of Life opened more than a decade ago and Detroit still arguably has the #1 polar bear exhibit in the nation, although I have not visited Columbus since the outstanding polar bear habitat opened there and that one looks unbelievable from photos.
 
I'm going to be optimistic and say hope is on the horizon for birthing season this year. The Columbus Zoo recently released this article: ttp://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/10/10/zoos-polar-bear-twins-may-be-moms-to-be.html However, the problem still remains that whatever cubs are in US zoos now will be staying in their home zoos for a couple of years until they are big enough to leave their mother.

With zoos wanting to create great new polar bear exhibits, part of me wants zoos with bad to average exhibits to move their polar bears to the other zoos. However, like Patches at the Erie Zoo, the bear is old and why risk the stress of the move? It will be interesting in ten years to see all the zoos that phase out polar bears. There are some zoos that have a young to mid age breeding pair, but nothing has come of it. Maybe one of them could be moved to one of these new exhibits. It is always sad to see these new videos of exhibit layouts with four polar bears in an exhibit. We know in reality that will not happen.

Out of all the potential zoos that want to build a polar bear exhibit, I support the Buffalo Zoo. Polar bears are a favorite, it's a good climate to house the bears (more so in the winter), and I don't think they should focus on their elephants who will be inside for almost half the year (unless they want to spend the money to once again improve their barn). Also, they already have two young bears, one that definitely belongs to them. But I do wish they would not wait too long on this because with other zoos doing the same thing, they may find they are too late to take action.
 
We strongly believe that laws involving wild bears will change sooner rather than later.The sea ice in which these bears need to survive is melting more and more every year not freezing.

Team Tapir223
 
Oregon Zoo may end up being added to the list of modern polar bear exhibit with no polar bears. I think the polar bear exhibit is next on the list for renovation after condors and elephants. Both Tasul & Conrad are pretty old bears.
 
I would not mind betting that St Lous will have polar bears by the opening the of the new exhibit!

No idea where from, it's just that this zoo is the most competently run " zoo business" that you could ever see and it is highly unlikely they have invested this money and the time of closing the penguin exhibit with the idea of " build it and they will come".
 
Bronx's bear is pretty elderly, too, so there's likely to be one less Polar Bear in the U.S. within the next few years. I doubt they'll get a replacement soon afterwards either.

~Thylo:cool:
 
A part of me wonders if the male polar bear from the Columbus Zoo, Nanuq, would be moved to another zoo. Maybe one of the zoos with a new exhibit? I can only see this happening if both females have cubs. The rotation would be very limited for three rounds, but perhaps Nanuq would be in the exhibit overnight. But most likely, because of his age, he will stay put in Columbus. Buffalo definitely does not have anything soon in the plans to accommodate him again.

A note to add, if he did move, I do not see him going to a zoo on a SSP recommendation. It would be he'd be a lone bear. If he did have two litters, his genes would be well represented in the past couple years.
 
blospz said:
A note to add, if he did move, I do not see him going to a zoo on a SSP recommendation. It would be he'd be a lone bear. If he did have two litters, his genes would be well represented in the past couple years.
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If he does move, I wonder if he'll move to Central Park. I know they're campaigning to get a replacement and they'd need a lone bear. Too bad it'd be a major step down for him.

~Thylo:cool:
 
I'm joining this thread just to ask a couple of questions;

1. Why can't Canada and the USA exchange polar bears in captivity?

2. Aren't all bears managed within the SSP so transfers should be available between the two countries?

3. Australia's polar bears are managed by the AZA (or so I've been told), will they be exempt from importing/exporting their stock as well?

4. Surely St. Louis will have something lined up? As zooman said previously, they are a great zoo and wouldn't block off a star exhibit (Penguin And Puffin Coast) if bears were even remotely unlikely to arrive?

If anyone can answer these questions then it will stop my brain hurting, thanks in advance! :)
 
Brum I believe, and someone correct me if Im wrong, but neither country is importing or exporting their bears because they are endangered. In the US they are trying to only keep Alaskan bears because they are American bears and as an endangered US species something federally protected. In Canada I believe most of our bears in captivity have originated from the Churchill population and we are trying to keep that line pure. I dont think there is any real difference in the bears but both countries are trying to protect their bears.

All the bears are managed under the SSP but Canadian bears are maintained seperately which is pretty easy because Toronto is the only Canadian participant in the SSP with bears (Toronto currently isnt accredited over a stupidity issue... Assiniboine Park and Zoo, Saint Felicien Zoo, the Cochrane Polar Bear Habitat and Aquarium Du Quebec are not members) and the only AZA member the Calgary Zoo doesnt house polar bears.

Im just guessing now but unless Australia's polar bears are from one of the two populations and is purely descended from one line than Im guessing they cant be imported. Export is different. Because the US is in shortage I doubt they would give away a bear. Canada on the other had with just 5 facilities housing them might be more willing to export. Of the 9 bears I know of in Canada, 3 are the offspring of Inukshuk, with him breeding both females available to him this year so possibly more to come. His future cubs and grandcubs may need homes outside of Canada. Im not certain about the numbers or places... Ill check with Canadian zoochatters for more info on our population.

I cant help with 4 but a lucky cub season now could help solve the problem. I do believe when Kali was rescued and brought south to be Luna's playmate articles mentioned he was likely going to St. Louis when he was old enough and the exhibit was ready. But nothing is definite until he needs to move.
 
TZFan said:
Brum I believe, and someone correct me if Im wrong, but neither country is importing or exporting their bears because they are endangered. In the US they are trying to only keep Alaskan bears because they are American bears and as an endangered US species something federally protected. In Canada I believe most of our bears in captivity have originated from the Churchill population and we are trying to keep that line pure. I dont think there is any real difference in the bears but both countries are trying to protect their bears.

All the bears are managed under the SSP but Canadian bears are maintained seperately which is pretty easy because Toronto is the only Canadian participant in the SSP with bears (Toronto currently isnt accredited over a stupidity issue... Assiniboine Park and Zoo, Saint Felicien Zoo, the Cochrane Polar Bear Habitat and Aquarium Du Quebec are not members) and the only AZA member the Calgary Zoo doesnt house polar bears.

Im just guessing now but unless Australia's polar bears are from one of the two populations and is purely descended from one line than Im guessing they cant be imported. Export is different. Because the US is in shortage I doubt they would give away a bear. Canada on the other had with just 5 facilities housing them might be more willing to export. Of the 9 bears I know of in Canada, 3 are the offspring of Inukshuk, with him breeding both females available to him this year so possibly more to come. His future cubs and grandcubs may need homes outside of Canada. Im not certain about the numbers or places... Ill check with Canadian zoochatters for more info on our population.

I cant help with 4 but a lucky cub season now could help solve the problem. I do believe when Kali was rescued and brought south to be Luna's playmate articles mentioned he was likely going to St. Louis when he was old enough and the exhibit was ready. But nothing is definite until he needs to move.
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Thanks for the in depth reply TZfan, it makes it clearer but I still don't see why they won't trade/work together for species sustainability? I'll be honest though, the AZA often confuse me with their species plans! :p
 
Brum said:
I'll be honest though, the AZA often confuse me with their species plans! :p
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And their often lack of:p

I mean, if a brother/sister pair of Sumatran Rhinos get an SSP, how come a breeding population of 12 Maleos don't! No sense!

~Thylo:cool:
 
I dont think the AZA is responsible for the decision to maintain the polar bears seperately. I think its actually the governements of Canada and the US who made the decision. Unless Im wrong they are the ones who have decided to prohibit the import of bears not from their native populations. Im not sure Canada is as stict as the US though because we really have limited space for our bears with just 5 institutions so I believe we are more open to export. But the US rules are pretty tight, eliminating the AZA from the decision process.

I do agree Canada and the US should be working together to help save the polar bear. Its the same bear all across the north. The polar bears in Alaska dont just stop at the border because they are American bears and Canadian bears dont stop at the border either. I wouldnt even be surprised if occasionally European bears make it into both countries. If the population in one country drastically declined it would likely be bears from the other country who would naturally move in or be used to bolster the popupulation. Why not work together to manage the species? Animals dont care about borders and in conservation we shouldnt either.

With reference to the sumatran rhinos the AZA actually doesnt have a SSP plan for them. There actually is no management plan for them. What happens with them is really up to Cinncinatti Zoo. Just check the AZA's website. Theres SSPs for whites, blacks and indians listed but no sumatrans. Why? Because your right 2 animals does not equal a population that requires management.

I dont think the maleos have an SSP either. I tried looking for it but couldnt find it. If there are only 12 of them then its probably on phase out, phase in or just not being managed.
 
TZFan said:
With reference to the sumatran rhinos the AZA actually doesnt have a SSP plan for them. There actually is no management plan for them. What happens with them is really up to Cinncinatti Zoo. Just check the AZA's website. Theres SSPs for whites, blacks and indians listed but no sumatrans. Why? Because your right 2 animals does not equal a population that requires management.

I dont think the maleos have an SSP either. I tried looking for it but couldnt find it. If there are only 12 of them then its probably on phase out, phase in or just not being managed.
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I would like to start off by saying I agree with your Polar Bear statement 100%!

Now I know this isn't the time nor place to talk about this topic but Cincinnati lists their Sumatran Rhinos as being in an SSP, both at the zoo and on their species page online. This doesn't mean it's correct, though.

I know Maleos don't have an SSP, that was my point. The species is probably listed to be phased-out mostly because it's too hard and expensive to breed them in captivity so zoos lost interest. But Bronx has all 12 and has been breeding them. In fact, they had only 9 until earlier this year when they breed three chicks! I know Bronx and the WCS works with the species both at the zoo and in Indonesia itself (where it appears they breed them at a center in Sulawesi) and I'm pretty sure they can bring new blood when needed to the zoo so they are being managed and breed.

My point is, if Cincy is to be believed and the Summie Rhinos have an SSP when there's only two siblings left currently, how come there's no SSP for a species like the Maleo which is being managed and being breed!

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about this more as I don't want derail this conversation more.

~Thylo:cool:
 
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