Are Zoos Only For The People?

sooty mangabey said:
You really do have an anti-zoo agenda, and an anti Berlin Zoo in particular, agenda, don't you?
Click to expand...

That thought crossed my mind a few days ago too about some of these posts. I have been away and unable to post or read until today, however catching up on reading more, I am more sure now.

Is it true Taisha, are you an anti zoo person? (just Y or N is enough). Either way I don’t care, but I would much prefer you to say you are anti zoo or have a particular agenda/issue with zoos (a zoo) and have an open discussion and maybe get something bashed out maybe?

Or...

Deep down don't you like zoos?, however you don't want to be so as courageous as to write that. Do you prefer to gain the trust of a few people with some zoo questions then throw a surface comment about a subject to see the response? (that is my opinion). You have mentioned the troubles of Kevin the Orang-utan at Berlin within Chester Zoos threads and how you nearly say or suggest that Chester should take care of him and almost (only at times) do you nearly criticise both parties (certainly Berlin) for not wanting to do enough to give him a good quality of life. Why don’t you just post that you don’t like zoos if you believe that are not doing enough for an individual(s).

Then again...

Another way of looking at this is that you have joined a website forum which has animal and zoo fans from different corners of the earth. Again you gain the trust of a few people with your questions and thoughts (although often very vague) in way of a response. Then maybe you would (could) take this information posted by some ‘zoochatters’ and put it in an anti-zoo publication/website/article that even animal lovers and zoo lovers disapprove of the work of certain zoos.?
 
My impression is that Taisha is less anti-zoo than anti-"zoo visitor."
These people cannot appreciate what Taisha appreciates and will not benefit from zoos as Taisha has. The thread might have been titled: "Are Zoos Only For These Common People?"
 
Pootle said:
That thought crossed my mind a few days ago too about some of these posts. I have been away and unable to post or read until today, however catching up on reading more, I am more sure now.

Is it true Taisha, are you an anti zoo person? (just Y or N is enough). Either way I don’t care, but I would much prefer you to say you are anti zoo or have a particular agenda/issue with zoos (a zoo) and have an open discussion and maybe get something bashed out maybe?

Or...

Deep down don't you like zoos?, however you don't want to be so as courageous as to write that. Do you prefer to gain the trust of a few people with some zoo questions then throw a surface comment about a subject to see the response? (that is my opinion). You have mentioned the troubles of Kevin the Orang-utan at Berlin within Chester Zoos threads and how you nearly say or suggest that Chester should take care of him and almost (only at times) do you nearly criticise both parties (certainly Berlin) for not wanting to do enough to give him a good quality of life. Why don’t you just post that you don’t like zoos if you believe that are not doing enough for an individual(s).

Then again...

Another way of looking at this is that you have joined a website forum which has animal and zoo fans from different corners of the earth. Again you gain the trust of a few people with your questions and thoughts (although often very vague) in way of a response. Then maybe you would (could) take this information posted by some ‘zoochatters’ and put it in an anti-zoo publication/website/article that even animal lovers and zoo lovers disapprove of the work of certain zoos.?
Click to expand...


Anyone else having deja-vu? I wonder what "Taisha" thinks about musk deer.....
 
Taisha said:
Just as your quote Sooty came as a foreign visitor, with no knowledge of the language, and still finds himself qualified enough to judge my remarks.
Click to expand...

Sorry; much of what you have written over the past couple of weeks has baffled me. This comment does too.

Taisha said:
For enlightment:

Süddeutsche Ztg. 30.9.2010, Berlin, ein Tierversuch
www.claudia-haemmerling.de/2010/sz0930-tierpark.pdf[/

.
Click to expand...


Blimey - do we need to look to Claudia Haemmerling for "enlightenment"? While one can respect her views, I don't think they are views that will be shared with many who read this forum - while aware of shortcomings within zoos, and frustrated by some of those shortcomings, I think the majority of us here are fundamentally pro zoo. Ms Haemmerling, clearly, is not.

Taisha said:
TO BRING THIS KIND OF DISCUSSION TO AN END:



By the way, it is not up to you to decide what I should talk about in this thread. I initiated the thread, and nobody has forced you to participate.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm.... Why has the facade of politeness dropped? Writing in capitals, the slightly unhinged "this is my thread, so don't disagree with me" pay off....
 
Taisha said:
TO BRING THIS KIND OF DISCUSSION TO AN END:

For me it is pretty obvious now, that your comments are nowhere based on practical experience with the subject concerned. Just as your quote Sooty came as a foreign visitor, with no knowledge of the language, and still finds himself qualified enough to judge my remarks. :eek:

For enlightment :rolleyes::

Süddeutsche Ztg. 30.9.2010, Berlin, ein Tierversuch
www.claudia-haemmerling.de/2010/sz0930-tierpark.pdf

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/umwelt/im-gespraech-berliner-zoo-direktor-bernhard-blaszkiewitz-wir projizieren-unser-empfinden-auf-die-tiere-1607328.html

www.3sat.de/page/?source=/ard/sendung/161010/index.html

By the way, it is not up to you to decide what I should talk about in this thread. I initiated the thread, and nobody has forced you to participate.:D
Click to expand...

Gosh, "I started this thread so it belongs to me and does not need to make sense. Accept my rules or start your own thread/ play on your own." I thought this was the internet, not kindergarten or else I wouldn't have participated in fact. It's entirely off topic, but I must rob you of this illusion anyways. No you don't own this thread, leave alone this blog. You may open a topic for discussion, but you cannot close it unless you do create an entire website on your own which surely will find many contributors all over the globe given your liberal approach and your tolerance for "foreigners" ;) Sorry for that, mate. And I didn't say you mustn't use this or any threads on whatever topic for your agenda or decided anything, I just suggested it doesn't make too much sense as it interrupts diverse discussions without creating any cohesion on its own.

And could you please define "practical experience with the subject concerned"? Your statement is rather vague and offensive in my eyes. I certainly have visited said place many times and watched the animals closely (practical experience in a way, even though I'm not a zookeeper - are you? or what is your grounds for suggesting a superiour position?) and I do know a bit about biology, behaviour even psychology to an extend etc. (which is mostly rather theoretical knowledge of course).

And why should I comment three of your links (two of which I already knew and mostly disagree with and the third of which actually gives some rather plausibly arguments about differences between humans and animals) while you haven't responded to the one I just suggested to you? And didn't you just tell me to leave your thread alone anyways...? Who is the link for then if you also deny "foreign" speakers on an English language blog to respond to something (originally German) you discuss in your private thread (compare your attack on sooty)...?

But allow me to finally contribute something to the original discussion despite my obvious shortcomings if you will, please? One of the links actually claims (in fact Blaskiewitz does) we may be projecting our own feelings on the animals we watch. So if we see monkeys behind fences which they like to use for climbing we are rather inclined to feel they live in captivity than if they have artificial rocks/ decoration or moats which in some cases they might not even use at all. This may be a rather good point for this discussion even though it probably has been raised before at other places - it is bound to have been. The modern trend is towards "artificial" habitats anyways and may some of them be rather disfunctional (I'm not suggesting there aren't any modern enclosures which can do both at once quite well or some old style enclosures which belong to the past and nowhere else!). This makes me wonder whether the modern approach in this respect is indeed more geared at people vs. animals than the traditional one... I'm definitely not talking about the size of enclosures or actual behavioural enrichment now, but rather structures or decoration which may in many cases rather suit our taste than animals' needs ("high quality" presentation vs. actual high quality enclosures). So modern zoos may even create false messages just in order not to offend visitors or rightfully cause them to question their prejudices towards enclosures. Still I feel zoos that are to survive will have to please visitors - most of which won't deeply reflect upon objective qualities of enclosures vs. first impressions or shallow ideals.
 
Last edited:
@pootle

Taisha said:
Assuming that all of us like animals, I would be curious, is the statement above generally accepted? And if not, which could be the way to reconcile the different approaches.
Click to expand...

Other questions may be answered by reading all my postings thorougly, I am afraid...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top