Asian & African elephants in the United states 2013 (Zoos only)

Upali said:
I has to be either Gunther or P.T at Ringling as they're the only 11 year old bulls in the country, except Kandula and seems like hes staying at the National zoo. Good news though!!
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- I was looking online and thats what I found to, which makes sense as fort worths existing bull was transfered from Ringling in 2005. I feel like National Zoo has an attachment to Kandula so they will not send him out but with the recent expansion now they can bring in females for him to breed with.
 
uszoo said:
- I was looking online and thats what I found to, which makes sense as fort worths existing bull was transfered from Ringling in 2005. I feel like National Zoo has an attachment to Kandula so they will not send him out but with the recent expansion now they can bring in females for him to breed with.
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I suspect he will one day breed with Bozie.

~Thylo:cool:
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I suspect he will one day breed with Bozie.

~Thylo:cool:
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- She is to old at the age of 37. Elephants have to breed by there mid 20's or the will never breed. The national zoo wants to get additional elephants so those would be the ones to breed with Kandula.
 
uszoo said:
- She is to old at the age of 37. Elephants have to breed by there mid 20's or the will never breed. The national zoo wants to get additional elephants so those would be the ones to breed with Kandula.
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Oh okay, I did not know her age. With room to hold three times the number of elephants they currently have they certainly will be bringing in more females when Kandula is older.

~Thylo:cool:
 
The bull is way too young for a 37-year old. If this old female may yet breed it can only happen by way of AI. I assume Kandula is expected to breed with a new generation of female elephants more in the age brackets that he is in. Mind you: at 10+ he is still way below the wild age at which bulls start to monopolise breeding spaces!!!
 
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Uszoo, thanks for updating us on the status of both taxa in US zoos.

It seems - checking back on the listing of which zoo holds how many elephants - that 1) many US zoos still only hold single sex groups, that 2) quite a few zoos only maintain older range females that are unlikely to breed now, that 3) very few zoos have a bull on site ... let alone ... one that is a good breeder or a potential sooner rather than later prospect for breeding.

Some questions come to mind:
Has there already been a re-analysis by both SSP programmes to look into the underlying reasons for both species not doing well in US zoos?

Having struggled to re-read the complete thread ... a figure for recruiment has been mentioned that in the Africans is approx. 2.5 individuals born each year and in the Asians ... even less. What actions are planned to improve that situation?

Bachelor herds is becoming a common feature in European zoos, esp. with Asians. Is the move by some zoos (I think Birmingham was mentioned here) to set up bachelor herds in response to having a reserve of potential bulls for future breeding?
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Bachelor herds is becoming a common feature in European zoos, esp. with Asians. Is the move by some zoos (I think Birmingham was mentioned here) to set up bachelor herds in response to having a reserve of potential bulls for future breeding?
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Birmingham has all African Bulls.

Denver is doing the same, but with Asian Bulls.
 
uszoo said:
- She is to old at the age of 37. Elephants have to breed by there mid 20's or the will never breed. The national zoo wants to get additional elephants so those would be the ones to breed with Kandula.
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Bozie had a calf in 1990 at the age of 15. Baton Rouge attempted several times with AI on Bozie - non were completely successful.
 
gerenuk said:
Bozie had a calf in 1990 at the age of 15. Baton Rouge attempted several times with AI on Bozie - non were completely successful.
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Calf survived? That would potentially somewhat alter the prospects of female Bozie ever becoming pregnant again. However, given the time span passed it is a rather slim possibility.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Calf survived? That would potentially somewhat alter the prospects of female Bozie ever becoming pregnant again. However, given the time span passed it is a rather slim possibility.
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Yes the calf survived, and has now had 3 calves of her own.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
3) very few zoos have a bull on site ... let alone ... one that is a good breeder or a potential sooner rather than later prospect for breeding.
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Well, in Smithsonian's situation, Kandula is the son of one of their females and has lived there his whole life. I believe the zoo plans to breed him when he gets older. And with room for 8 more elephants, they can certainly do that.

~Thylo:cool:
 
Thylo,

For that matter you need to look at the sex/age ratios in US/SSP population. I assume the population has been aging as it has equally done in the past in Europe and with very few zoos actually contributing to breeding Asians. In order to rectify that situation all available potentially reproductive females need to be brought into a breeding situation ASAP. Same counts for any fertile bulls of breeding age.

I do not think that without any imports from range countries the US population will manage to get upto 8 elephants of breeding age to NZP.
 
Once Bozie gets settled, she will undergo a reproductive assessment. She has had one offspring, and the zoo wants to find out whether she can have more. If she can, she probably would be paired with Kandula, Smith said.
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- Brandie Smith (Senior Curator of the National Zoo)

I assume, due to the experience and age gap between Bozie and Kandula, I would guess AI would be the ultimate means of copulation.

That's great news on the Fort Worth front! I wonder if Casey going to be transferred.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
I do not think that without any imports from range countries the US population will manage to get upto 8 elephants of breeding age to NZP.
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What I meant is that the zoo has room for 8 more elephants, not that they're getting them. I meant that with that much space they could/will be able to get a future mate for Kandula.

~Thylo:cool:
 
In some of the reports about Bozie's arrival I read, they stated Kandula was a potential mate for her in the future. But they could be wrong, given both animals ages.
 
Bozie is almost 40 and had her first and only calf 23 (!!) years ago. The thought that she might breed now - with a 10 year old bull (!!) - is ridiculous. If the same people who make statements like this are in charge of elephant breeding in the USA, it`s no wonder that both the African and the Asian elephant programs are doing so poorly.

This all illustrates beautifully where the problem of the elephant SSP`s in North America lies - too many people are "too attached" to their "beloved" elephants to make the decisions that would promote breeding. Bozie should have left Baton Rouge for a zoo with a mature breeding bull about 2 decades ago. THEN she would most likely have half a dozend offspring now. Same for Kandula`s mother Shanti - why the *** is a breeding cow STILL living at a zoo without a suitable mature bull?? While Billy in LA - mature and totally unrelated to any other elephant in the USA - is living in LA without breeding partner since (too) many years. And there are so many more examples like this. The few zoos where things are going right (St. Louis for Asians and San Diego for Africans) won`t be able to produce enough calves to make up for all the management mistakes.

Not that the **** that is going on in the African Elephant EEP is much better.
 
Speaking of Birmingham, I haven't heard anything from the staff but I've seen it written/said several other places that they may be swapping Bulls with other zoos. Would that be Ajani? Because Callee is overrepresented, Bulwagi too old, and Tamani too young. And who would they get to replace Ajani?
 
Yassa is spot on there!! Places are far too attached to their individual animals rather than seeing the big picture! Although I think it might have a lot to do with public perception aswell, as US zoos get a lot of anti zoo publicity say compared to Europe when it comes to moving and breeding elephants which might put them off from swapping and changing their animals. However they don't seem to do themselves any favours, with their publicity people going INSANE with announcements regarding moves, early pregnancy, calves etc. as soon as a bull even looks at a cow there seems to be a story on the news in the US! They should concentrate in getting the sap in some order rarther than on publicity.

As regards to Bulwagi he's perfect age for breeding but am I right in thinking he doesn't naturally breed cows for some reason?? He only has 3 living calves all through AI.
 
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