asian and african elephants together

Arizona Docent

Arizona Docent

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
The thread for my zoo's news is starting to morph into a separate discussion on asian and african elephants, whether or not they should be housed together. Since this discussion was starting to hijack my general zoo news thread, I am trying to move it here to a separate thread.

Please post any additional comments on the topic here.
 
To start things off, maybe we can come up with a list of zoos (worldwide) that house asian and african elephants together. Also a mention of whether or not they plan to continue that policy. Here are the two I am familiar with. (Bolding the zoo name, as I have, will be helful).

San Diego Zoo (one african with several asians). Will continue as far as I know (although I have no inside info).

Reid Park Zoo (one african and one asian). Undecided whether asian will stay or go once new african exhibit opens with additional elephants.
 
Topeka Zoo (One Asian and One African) I don't beleive they have any plans to remove one or seperate them.
 
I personally see nothing wrong with keeping the two together if the animals are past breeding age. I think it's a great way of showing the general public the difference between the two sub-species :D
 
Isn't it the case that European accredited zoos aren't permitted to keep them together because of the herpesvirus issue?
 
The problem is that once the Asian elephant was kept with Africans, moving it further risks infecting further Asian elephants. Especially important it is for breeding herds.

European policy is to keep them separate, but old animals kept long time together and obviously fitting into a group should stay together. Also, Asian elephants kept with Africans should not be moved to Asian breeding herds.

Which raises another question - do old animals kept in same conditions really are likely to not adapt and die prematurely if moved?
 
Arizona Docent said:
They are not two subspecies, they are completely different species (in fact, not even the same genus).
Click to expand...

Indeed. And depending on who you believe there could be up to 5 different species (taking all the splittings I've seen suggested together!). Balance of opinion nowadays seems to be that there are three species (with African split into Bush and Forest) across two genera.
 
Woodland park zoo- 1 African, 2 asian. Asian calf Hansa died of the herpes virus in 2007.

Also before St. Louis started breeding elephants they had an African. Could this explain the herpes virus that is affecting both Jade and Maliha?
 
Or maybe that Raja was conceived in Springfield, MO - a zoo long known for its history of elephant herpes cases.

Or that Sri brought the herpes virus from the Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle, WA

Or that Rani was conceived in Syracuse, NY - another zoo with an elephant herpes history - and she was born and lived at the Jacksonville Zoo, FL with African elephants
 
@Dallas: Both Eli and Rani(the two moms at St.Louis) were around Africans at Jax before they left for St. Louis. Rani was born to Eli at the Jax Zoo and spent her childhood with African Elephants.
 
Arizona Docent said:
They are not two subspecies, they are completely different species (in fact, not even the same genus).
Click to expand...

Intresting fact that the asian elephant is more colsely related to the woolly mammoth than it is to the african elephant.
African and asians together I believe will be eventually phased out , due to breeding purposes. as Auckland zoo states: "African elephants are carriers of endotheliotropic herpes virus. This herpes virus can remain latent in African elephants (the elephant carries the virus but has no obvious illness) while the virus can cause severe illness, with high mortality rates in Asian elephants. There are also no medications that can be used to ensure that carrier animals are cleared of the disease"

Its really sad about the herpes virus, so many little elephants had died because of it. In the united states as mentioned Dickerson Park zoo has had many births. 7 of Onxy's offspring alone died from Herpes. In houston zoo The breeding bull Thai has sired 12 calves and ( I believe) have died to herpes. Have either of these two bulls been housed with Africans in the past?

As for comparing them, zoos could hold both asians and africans in different exhibits. The only one that comes out of the top my head is Berlin TP. It keeps a large breeding herd of both Asians and Africans.
 
I had no idea that st. louis was so irresponsible when picking breeding cows! Woodland, and Jacksonville? I guess the disease wasn't well understood in the 2005?
 
Glad to see

that the asian elephant at Reid park will be going to an Asian elephant herd herd at San Diego.Too bad San Diego does not feel the same way about it's lone African.Remember they have a "so called elephant expert" that reccomended MAGGIE THE AFRICAN ELEPHANT elephant at Alaska zoo stay there.Meanwhile,Maggie was going under.Even though L.a. and San Diego are "Making amends".Los angeles and San Diego have a history I would not be proud of .Topeka's situation with their elephants is a disgrace.
 
Dresden Zoo in Germany mixed the two when I was there in 2008, single Asian and the rest African.
 
Chester had a hybrid calf in 1977 i think?And Paignton used to have Asian and African but the female Asian Gay died leaving just Duchess the African.
 
I feel having the two species together confuses people who know basically nothing about elephants.

I remember in 2000 when Hansa was born at the Woodland Park zoo, everyone was saying the Watato(the african) was the father. Simply because she had tusks, and was bigger. In reality Chai had gone to the Dickerson park zoo. It was actually quite confusing for me as a six year old.

I also don't think that the woodland park african fits the theme of the Thai logging camp. Having to have African species graphics in a Asian enclosure ruins it for me. I believe they are only keeping Watato to keep with in the AZA guide lines of 0.3.0
 
I agree

Watato should have been shipped to another zoo a long time ago.I saw those videos of her in the indoor enclosure on youtube.It seems like a closet for her.I like it when zoos try to turn the negative publicity around.Dallas has seem to have done this with their new exhibit.Reid park is on it's way now.I believe the only zoos in the USA that exhibits both species together is Seattle,San Diego,Topeka,and zoo in Louisana(I forget which one).It does not seem they are going to end this either.San diego surprises me big time.You would think they would give Tembo chance to be with her conspecifics in Tuscon's new exhibit or Wild Animal Park.If she was a 17 year old female San Diego would not hesitate to send her to be bred at san diego wild animal park.Well,san diego should at least give here a chance to experience being an auntie to young calves.It's the least they could do for a wild animal being taken from it's family as a young calf..Remember this is the same zoo that has the so called elephant expert that reccomended that Maggie stay at Alaska zoo.She would not be still around (If she did).I wish a bastard like that or Scott Riddle(You would not believe what this bastard did to a young bull elephant.Just for being a a young Bull african elephant.Mr.Riddle should be hanging from a tree upside down like Mussolini) would have to deal with some jail time.If I ever ran into Scott Riddle the Sicilian in me would not hesitate to slap his face very hard.It's the least that could be done for beating an elephant to death(How he even is still allowed to have elephants in his hands today is sad).
 
You are not the only one.

I talked to a a guy that grew up in South Africa.He said seeing that lone African at san Diego with the asians ruined it for him.Especially growing up seeing herds of african Elephants.Maybe San diego can start mixing bonobos,Orangutans,and Gorillas together.Lions,tigers,and bears.There would be an uproar(no pun intended).
 
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