Asian Elephants in Europe 2020

@Hyak_II thanks for teaching us that the appearance of an Elephant is passed down by the Mother. I never knew this interesting fact. @Hyak_II this would explain why the now deceased Sithami and her daughter Sundara were identical. @Hyak_II can you please tell me what the differences between the appearance of Sundara and her now deceased mother Sithtami were?
 
@The Hedgehog well it's not always that case. Ida just had particularly strong genetics for whatever reason. But even then, Chang and Gandhi had another full brother, Santosh, who was a more even mix of the two parents. Santosh was more lightly built with longer legs, a smaller head, and proper risks.
 
Hyak_II said:
Gandhi is straight up ugly. Probably the ugliest bull elephant I've ever seen.

Also the looks don't come from their sire, they come from the mother.
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Gandhi looks very similar in his proportions to Pochin- the same big head in comparison to the small body and short legs.

As to looks coming from the mother...from memory Jangoli was a large normally proportioned female, the biggest in Chester's herd. I'm wondering if this is just a genetic 'type' that any elephant can throw from time to time? I've seen other 'dumpy' elephants featured on old photos and postcards from zoos in the past also.
 
I suppose I should have been clearer, Chang and his lineage (plus brother Gandhi) strongly inherited their looks from Chang and Gandhi's mother Ida.

However not all elephants look so strongly like their mothers, it's just this one particular line.

Also I agree, Jangoli is a perfectly normal looking elephant. The only thing Po Chin seems to have inherited from her is his ears.
 
This thread has reminded me that I had a scanned photo from 2000 of Chang with Upali. I have just uploaded it to the Gallery, so that everyone can see the subject of the discussion above.
Chang & Upali 2000

Chang & Upali 2000

  • Media owner gentle lemur
  • Date added
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Elephant paddock, Chester, circa 20th July 2000
I remember arriving at the zoo with my brother to find that the Elephant House was closed to visitors, and only the two bulls were out in the paddock. This was because a calf had been born, which we only learned when we were watching the TV news back at home. That calf was Po Chin.
I must admit I had not given any thought to Chang's unusual conformation until I looked at this image again, but it clearly shows his large head and short front legs. On the other hand, I am glad that he was a successful sire and that Po Chin promises to be the same - zoos should not attempt to selectively breed their animals, so it is important that these atypical genes are preserved. For comparison and for confirmation that @Pertinax has a good memory, I am adding an image of Jangolie, the mother of Po Chin, from 2012.
Indian elephant - Jangoli

Indian elephant - Jangoli

  • Media owner gentle lemur
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The tallest of the elephant cows and second into the paddock at opening time. Chester, 12th May...
.
 
gentle lemur said:
This thread has reminded me that I had a scanned photo from 2000 of Chang with Upali. I have just uploaded it to the Gallery, so that everyone can see the subject of the discussion above.
Chang & Upali 2000

Chang & Upali 2000

  • Media owner gentle lemur
  • Date added
  • Comments 1
Elephant paddock, Chester, circa 20th July 2000
I remember arriving at the zoo with my brother to find that the Elephant House was closed to visitors, and only the two bulls were out in the paddock. This was because a calf had been born, which we only learned when we were watching the TV news back at home. That calf was Po Chin.
I must admit I had not given any thought to Chang's unusual conformation until I looked at this image again, but it clearly shows his large head and short front legs. On the other hand, I am glad that he was a successful sire and that Po Chin promises to be the same - zoos should not attempt to selectively breed their animals, so it is important that these atypical genes are preserved. For comparison and for confirmation that @Pertinax has a good memory, I am adding an image of Jangolie, the mother of Po Chin, from 2012.
Indian elephant - Jangoli

Indian elephant - Jangoli

  • Media owner gentle lemur
  • Date added
  • Comments 2
The tallest of the elephant cows and second into the paddock at opening time. Chester, 12th May...
.
Click to expand...

I noticed that PoChin was in the Paira Daiza herd when I went, from their Elephant signage, but couldn't see him. He was probably in the large paddock at the back which I never saw. So I wasn't aware of what he looked like until I saw a recent photo of him on their website, it was celebrating his 20th birthday I think.
 
Terrible news, young Omysha at Zurich gave birth earlier today, and although things started well enough, an unusual dynamic developed amongst the family group and the calf was trampled and killed in the ensuing activities.

This is a fairly rough year for Zurich elephant wise after losing old bull Maxi, and the deaths of two live calves within hours of birth. Fingers crossed Zurich hops back on the train, and gets Farah and Omysha pregnant again soon enough (hopefully with better outcomes than this year, however).

On that note as well, Zurich does things 100% natural and leave births to the elephants, and although it does certainly have it's merits and is my personal preferred method as well, one cannot help but wonder if some human intervention couldn't have changed things for the better in cases like this, especially when looking at facilities like Leipzig and Erfurt, who had some degree of human intervention with their inexperienced cows, but both still have live calves because of it.
 
Elephantelephant said:
I heard there should be two males from Maubege Zoo, Yoe Ma and Ananda Yinghtway.
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It make sense for me as Maubeuge told that they want younger bulls in the near future.
Four elephants for a new park it's a lot and I am not sure the new facility is that good. Will see quickly.
 
Antoine said:
It make sense for me as Maubeuge told that they want younger bulls in the near future.
Four elephants for a new park it's a lot and I am not sure the new facility is that good. Will see quickly.
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Europe has too many young Asian bulls that will need accomodation in next few years. I think as long as any new facility can prove it can safely work with bulls, EEP won´t object to a transfer.
 
Of course, I know this @Jana but starting with four bulls is not the same than two. This new park has just a well-known vet in french zoos and the head keepers are coming from circus.
A few months ago they were looking for proven elephant keepers and I hope they found them.
 
Are any relocations planned for the adolescent Bull Elephants at Dublin Zoo? I ask this because the Bulls are or reaching sexual maturity so could start playing roughly or worse inbreed with their own family members. I remember that a few years ago Dublin arranged for Budai (Budi) to relocate to Antwerp Zoo for this very reason. Budai was about half the age of the adolescent Bulls currently within the heard. Lastly can someone explain why Budai was moved at such a young age when Ashoka,Kavi, Kabir and Sanjay have been able to remain with the family?
 
The Hedgehog said:
Lastly can someone explain why Budai was moved at such a young age when Ashoka,Kavi, Kabir and Sanjay have been able to remain with the family?
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Take your pick from any of these variable factors;

1. Availability at any given time of a facility that can take them.

2. Change in management. e.g. the first young male(s) they decided should leave earlier, but with more experience of breeding they now realise they can keep them longer within the natal group.

3. Change of herd management or overall policy of how long they will keep young bulls.

4. Combination of any of the above.
 
The Hedgehog said:
Are any relocations planned for the adolescent Bull Elephants at Dublin Zoo? I ask this because the Bulls are or reaching sexual maturity so could start playing roughly or worse inbreed with their own family members. I remember that a few years ago Dublin arranged for Budai (Budi) to relocate to Antwerp Zoo for this very reason. Budai was about half the age of the adolescent Bulls currently within the heard. Lastly can someone explain why Budai was moved at such a young age when Ashoka,Kavi, Kabir and Sanjay have been able to remain with the family?
Click to expand...
The new Sydney Zoo has announced this year that it plans to acquire two elephants from the Dublin Zoo. It will probably be both 6-year-old bulls. (Who else would they move?)
 
Two important transfers:

Naing Thein was moved from Leipzig to Kopenhagen. There will he stay for 8 months and then will go to Lodz in Poland.

Kewa, her daughters Thuza and Pantha, son Edgar and Kewa's mate Astra were moved to Leipzig. There they can live in family herd and Leipzig has new chance for sucessful breeding.
 
https://zueriost.ch/news/2020-09-29/unser-thisiam-ist-ein-richtiger-bulle-geworden
Great news from Knies Kinderzoo. The Mekong is already very interested in Sandry and Rani (however, due to her age, she can no longer have a calf, although the article claims that Rani and Ma Palaj are candidates for breeding, both are 30+ and did not have a calf). But more importantly, Thisiam began to show! He is now showing unsuccessful mating attempts and is most interested in Kalaya. That would be great because he's a genetically very valuable bull (the only relatives I think are at Le Pal Zoo).
 
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