Asian Elephants in Europe 2022

[Jambo]

I doubt Ceyla is reproductively viable given she's in her late 40's and hasn't produced a calf in 17 years.

It'd be a shame to break up a matrilineal line, but for the sake of a cohesive herd, it could be worth sending her elsewhere and merging Farha with Indi and Chandra (if possible).

I'm confident this isn't the end for Zurich breeding. Many European zoos have had set backs on this scale and worse and persisted

Ceyla has offspring in the UK (and Australia too) through her son, Upali, so this is why she hasn't been bred following Fahim's birth in 2005.

I'm not sure Zurich will be willing to do this. Until at least Farha has some children (daughters) as support.

 

[ZCChip]

Does anyone know the situation behind Ceyla and India’s hostility towards each other?

 

[Zoofan15]

Does anyone know the situation behind Ceyla and India’s hostility towards each other?

I believe it's mutual antagonism from both sides (mainly from Ceyla) due to both wanting to assume control of the herd. With the importance placed on keeping matrilineal lines intact, problems like these will become less common in the future.

 

[Jambo]

Does anyone know the situation behind Ceyla and India’s hostility towards each other?

I believe it's mutual antagonism from both sides (mainly from Ceyla) due to both wanting to assume control of the herd. With the importance placed on keeping matrilineal lines intact, problems like these will become less common in the future.

It’s as simple as both want to be matriarch and in charge of the herd. Zurich refers to the matriarch as Ceyla, and yes she’s probably the more dominant of the pair, but Indu too equally engages in the conflict.

Their daughters tend to stay out of it (it’s mainly a Ceyla V Indu conflict); but occasionally they’ll get involved.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It’s devastating that Zurich Zoo have lost all of their Elephant Calf’s. Fortunately in the last few years more Elephants have been surviving EEHV. Hopefully this is the start of the end of EEHV fatality’s. The majority of survivors don’t relapse,in fact some have had their own Calf’s. For example Farha at Zurich contracted EEHV many years ago and has given birth. I’m hopeful that the future of Chester’s Herd is bright. Indali’s an EEHV survivor and is thriving. Chances are she could even be a Mum in a couple of years. Cases like this give me hope that the future of captive Asian Elephants is bright.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Does anyone else expect Anjan to depart Chester Zoo next year? In 2010 Tunga a 5 year old Bull left Chester. In fact all Bull Calfs have left Chester when they reach about 5. This age of departure isn’t isolated to Chester. Whipsnade Zoo have moved many Young Bulls including Sam when they have reached 5.

 

[Zoofan15]

It’s devastating that Zurich Zoo have lost all of their Elephant Calf’s. Fortunately in the last few years more Elephants have been surviving EEHV. Hopefully this is the start of the end of EEHV fatality’s. The majority of survivors don’t relapse,in fact some have had their own Calf’s. For example Farha at Zurich contracted EEHV many years ago and has given birth. I’m hopeful that the future of Chester’s Herd is bright. Indali’s an EEHV survivor and is thriving. Chances are she could even be a Mum in a couple of years. Cases like this give me hope that the future of captive Asian Elephants is bright.

The work Chester and other zoos are doing on the creation of an EEHV vaccine give additional hope for the future of the species. There's a long road to go, with the trial in the early stages, but it's progress compared to where we were at a decade ago.

With early detection, there's also been several elephants who have successfully fought EEHV.

 

[Jambo]

Does anyone else expect Anjan to depart Chester Zoo next year? In 2010 Tunga a 5 year old Bull left Chester. In fact all Bull Calfs have left Chester when they reach about 5. This age of departure isn’t isolated to Chester. Whipsnade Zoo have moved many Young Bulls including Sam when they have reached 5.

It's different for every elephant. He will be moved once he became too much of a frustration for the herd. When the point comes, the females will begin to no longer tolerate his boisterous behaviour, and a move will be organised.

Anjan's only four and from what i've seen and heard, he's still doing well within the herd. It could take another three to four years until this occurs. Although usually it's around the ages of five and six.

 

[Pongo]

I doubt Ceyla is reproductively viable given she's in her late 40's and hasn't produced a calf in 17 years.

It'd be a shame to break up a matrilineal line, but for the sake of a cohesive herd, it could be worth sending her elsewhere and merging Farha with Indi and Chandra (if possible).

I don't agree. There absolutely is no issue breeding Asian elephants, but there is an issue with the mistakes of the past to tear matrilines apart. Right now the two problems of the elephant EEP are the way too high number of young bulls and the way too high number of single elephant cows (about 90!) - so why should they rip a matrilinie apart (huge mistake of which I am sure it won't be done anymore) and add one more to the long list and keep her aside from her family, which totally is against the nature?!?

About 10 of 35 matrilines in Europe are just having two elephants and there are even five singular cows who still are in a breeding age. If you take a look at each individual situation you would have to say that it makes sense to breed everywhere - but this is not doable in the current situation as nobody can handle such an amount of offspring.

 

[Jambo]

I don't agree. There absolutely is no issue breeding Asian elephants, but there is an issue with the mistakes of the past to tear matrilines apart. Right now the two problems of the elephant EEP are the way too high number of young bulls and the way too high number of single elephant cows (about 90!) - so why should they rip a matrilinie apart (huge mistake of which I am sure it won't be done anymore) and add one more to the long list and keep her aside from her family, which totally is against the nature?!?

About 10 of 35 matrilines in Europe are just having two elephants and there are even five singular cows who still are in a breeding age. If you take a look at each individual situation you would have to say that it makes sense to breed everywhere - but this is not doable in the current situation as nobody can handle such an amount of offspring.

I think it's in Zurich's best interest too (if they have too) - send one of the pairs elsewhere, and continue breeding from the remaining breeding female.

This is of course, the worst case scenario, but what needs to be done, needs to be done especially as it's impacting Zurich's breeding success.

 

[Gil]

I don't see how having two groups of females is impacting Zurich's breeding success. It has worked really well, as there were 4 pregnancies since the opening of the new elephant park.

 

[Jambo]

I don't see how having two groups of females is impacting Zurich's breeding success. It has worked really well, as there were 4 pregnancies since the opening of the new elephant park.

I was under the impression they're being kept together, but as your a regular you may no otherwise. At least a few years back (maybe a little longer) they had them living in one single group.

 

[Zoofan15]

I don't see how having two groups of females is impacting Zurich's breeding success. It has worked really well, as there were 4 pregnancies since the opening of the new elephant park.

If they’re happy to manage two groups, it may be a solution long term. Management wise, it was clearly working before and the cows would be difficult to place within the region given overcrowding and the reluctance of other zoos to take on an elephant known to have been one half of the conflict at Zurich.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It's different for every elephant. He will be moved once he became too much of a frustration for the herd. When the point comes, the females will begin to no longer tolerate his boisterous behaviour, and a move will be organised.

Anjan's only four and from what i've seen and heard, he's still doing well within the herd. It could take another three to four years until this occurs. Although usually it's around the ages of five and six.

@Jambo from what I’ve heard Anjan has an excellent bond with his Dad Aung Bo. This could mean Anjan will remain in his maternal heard for longer than his Uncle Tunga. This is a brilliant scenario as when the Cowes oust Anjan he can remain with Aung Bo. I know Sam at Whipsnade lived in the Bull paddock with Emmett for a while,following the death of his Mum Azizah (Layang Layang).

 

[Yassa]

Since Chester only has a tiny bull paddock, Anjan cant stay with Aung Bo. There is no space for a seperate bull group at Chester (which the zoo should change ASAP, an extension of the outdoor area for the elephants is long overdue).

Regarding Zurich, the two families are indeed kept apart since almost 10 years. They tried to reunite them after the move into the new enclosure but it failed. Sending Ceyla away is a horrible idea. It would be cruel to both Ceyla and Farha, and it would subject Farha to aggression/ mobbing from Indi and Chandra.

Regarding EEHV, it is sadly clear that early detection and treatment doesnt have much potenial to save the calves, the death rate is still horrendous. If the vaccine trial will anywhere is totally in the open. I think zoos need to take different actions: according to the newest research, its pretty clear that the cause for these horrible EEHV outbreaks and the high death rate is that many zoo groups are too small. The best protection for calves is early and frequent contact with the virus to build up sufficent immunity. If a zoo holds less then 10 elephants, its likely that shedding of the virus happens not often enough to expose calves to the virus at the right time (e.g. during the first year of life and the the again frequently to keep up immunity). So a zoo like Zurich could take in 2-3 young bulls to enlarge the herd. They could keep them with Thai in a seperate bull group, but with trunk contact with the rest of the herd.

Another idea is to collect trunk wash samples from elephants shedding EEHV in other zoos and then exposing calves with low antibody titer living in small herds to the virus in this way.

 

[Jambo]

@Jambo from what I’ve heard Anjan has an excellent bond with his Dad Aung Bo. This could mean Anjan will remain in his maternal heard for longer than his Uncle Tunga. This is a brilliant scenario as when the Cowes oust Anjan he can remain with Aung Bo. I know Sam at Whipsnade lived in the Bull paddock with Emmett for a while,following the death of his Mum Azizah (Layang Layang).

There is no space for an extra bull (Anjan) let alone Aung Bo already. The bull paddock is very small, so this isn't an option. I think it's likely that when he does get ousted by the rest of the herd, he'll be moved ASAP. Considering Sundara's matriarch, she'll be less tolerant of Anjan as he gets older (as he's not her offspring).

EDIT: I've just seen Yassa's posted something similar, but i'll keep this as it has a few more points to it.

 

[Jambo]

Regarding Zurich, the two families are indeed kept apart since almost 10 years. They tried to reunite them after the move into the new enclosure but it failed. Sending Ceyla away is a horrible idea. It would be cruel to both Ceyla and Farha, and it would subject Farha to aggression/ mobbing from Indi and Chandra.

That's interesting. Then again, I haven't been up to date with Zurich's herd for ages. I think I must've been remembering the point when they did try and reunite the cows together for a small period.

Zurich does have the facilities to keep the cows apart, so I don't really so why this is an issue EEHV wise.

 

[Pongo]

So far nobody apparently has a solution to the EEHV issue and continuing like before while waiting for Chester to develop a vaccine is risky. The more such cases happen the more will media and in the consquence also people question if elephants can be kept in zoos. It would not be wise to simply continue breeding in places where it occured without doing changes before. Also in Hamburg they openly say that there is a high risk that their current young bull will die after the previous EEHV cases.

It's always best to keep animals as it happens in the nature, which for elephants means to keep cows only in exactly one matriline. This certainly will not be the EEHV solution but this apparently is the constellation elephants are most comfortable with. Particularly Asian elephants live in comparably small matrilines, which indicates that they are more focused on their own group and don't like that many strangers around.

Right now I think we only have six holders of Asian elephants with two different matrilines. Those are Copenhagen, Rotterdam, Prague, Hamburg, Zurich and Pairi Daiza. Two of them - Hamburg and Zurich - are known for matrilines that don't like another and had a major EEHV outbreak. It can be a coincidence of course but the percentage is high enough to take a deeper look at. I don't know how the matriline situation was in Berlin and Chester when they had their major outbreaks.

 

[Yassa]

Right now I think we only have six holders of Asian elephants with two different matrilines. Those are Copenhagen, Rotterdam, Prague, Hamburg, Zurich and Pairi Daiza. Two of them - Hamburg and Zurich - are known for matrilines that don't like another and had a major EEHV outbreak. It can be a coincidence of course but the percentage is high enough to take a deeper look at. I don't know how the matriline situation was in Berlin and Chester when they had their major outbreaks.

This is just a coincidence and nothing to take a deeper look at. First, the two families in Zurich are never sharing an enclosure and as far as I know there is little to no social tension in the Hagenbeck group.

Second and most importantly , if you look at the bigger picture, calves living in herds with many unrelated members are acually much less affected by EEHV than those living in zoos with just one matriline. Zoos like Emmen, Hannover, Cologne and Pairi Daiza never lost calves to EEHV despite many many births and keeping many unrelated females together (Emmen had as much as 6 unrelated breeding females in the 90‘th/early 2000s and over 20 calves and not a single one lost to EEHV!). Ringling and Charlie Grey in African Lion Safari in Ontario/Canada also had/have huge groups with many unrelated females and only very few EEHV deaths. Living in big groups protects calfs, not the other way around.

 

[Hyak_II]

Just a small update, bull Fahim is no longer headed to Łódź, and will instead stay at Copenhagen as their new breeding bull. In addition to this, he has already bred Surin, and hopes are high that she has conceived.

Personally, I think this is a good move (or rather, lack of move ) for a variety of reasons. Fahim is a very inquisitive, intelligent, and destructive bull, and Copenhagen is well equipped and designed to handle his antics; where as Łódź needed extensive retrofitting to accommodate him. Along with this, he is now in a social group that truly fits his personality, with both a number of social cows AND boisterous young bulls to spar and generally be rowdy with.

In addition, with the tragic loses of Umesh, Omysha, and Ruwani at Zurich, plus the exports of Ashoka, Kavi, Sanjay and Kabir out of the region, Fahim’s family line on both sides is suddenly quite under-represented, so retaining him as a breeding bull only makes sense at this point, especially with genetically valuable cows like the Copenhagen girls.