Asian Elephants in Europe 2022

[Okavango]

Which captive Asian Elephant Cowe is the Youngest to have a Calf? Likewise which Elephant Bull is the youngest to Sire a Calf? I know both Sithami and Sundara at Chester,were extremely young when they had their first Calfs.

The youngest mothers in the history of the EEP are Wered from Ramat Gan (5 yo at first birth), Cinta from Tierpark Berlin (5 yo at first birth), Kaveri from Paris (6 yo at first birth), Homaline from La Palmyre (6 yo at first birth) and Saphira from Hannover (6 yo at fist birth).

And the youngest fathers are Dubas from Almaty (8 yo at first birth), Bacho from Tiflis (8 yo at first birth), Winner from Izmir (9 yo at first birth), Boy from Munich (10 yo at first birth) and Emmett from Whipsnade (11 yo at first birth).

 

[Okavango]

You can also add Gung (2000) from Taronga Zoo to that list. He was 9 years old upon the birth of his first calf in 2009. He was 11 years old upon the birth of his second calf in 2011. He now lives at Taronga Western Plains Zoo.

I think there have been many other early breeders around the world. But this list comes from data concerning only the european breeding program.

 

[Mfuwe]

Elizabeth has not received a breeding recommendation it is very unlikely that this be the case.

 

[Rajang-GOAT]

Also as others have said Whipsnade breed by moving the selected cow in the bull paddock, and they wouldn't have actively done this with Elizabeth at her age.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Also as others have said Whipsnade breed by moving the selected cow in the bull paddock, and they wouldn't have actively done this with Elizabeth at her age.

@Rajang-GOAT I think that Whipsnade should stop this method of breeding. I prefer the way Chester Zoo breed by letting the Bull live with the Females. This is a more natural situation. In the wild Cowes wouldn’t be placed in the company of a Bull.

 

[Zoofan15]

@Rajang-GOAT I think that Whipsnade should stop this method of breeding. I prefer the way Chester Zoo breed by letting the Bull live with the Females. This is a more natural situation. In the wild Cowes wouldn’t be placed in the company of a Bull.

It’s the method almost every accredited zoo in the world follows. Bulls don’t live with the matriarchal herd in the wild, they visit; so zoos replicate this by placing the cow they want to breed from in the company of the bull.

 

[Okavango]

It’s the method almost every accredited zoo in the world follows. Bulls don’t live with the matriarchal herd in the wild, they visit; so zoos replicate this by placing the cow they want to breed from in the company of the bull.

Yes but in the wild, the mating takes place within the group of cows and not really separately.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes but in the wild, the mating takes place within the group of cows and not really separately.

And what would replicating that in zoos accomplish?

From a management perspective, it’s easier for zoos to run the target cow with the bull than concern themselves with preventing non target cows from falling pregnant (e.g. four year old females that are already cycling).

 

[Hyak_II]

Moreover, along with the above mentioned management reasons, two other very valid issues can present:

Some cows are, for lack of better words, cock blocks. Lucha at whipsnade, funnily enough, is actually one example of this. She will interrupt the breeding process between a bull and another cow as much as possible, to the point she will actually use her trunk to grab the bulls penis and prevent successful copulation.

In other situations, a bull that will breed well in a one on one setting, can become overstimulated in a herd setting, to the point he either will ignore attempting to breed a cow, or even worse, get overstimulated to the point he actually becomes aggressive towards the other animals.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Yes but in the wild, the mating takes place within the group of cows and not really separately.

@Okavango thanks for backing me up. This is the message I was trying to convey to @Zoofan15. For some reason @Zoofan15 didn’t grasp my point. If Whipsnade want to treat their Asian Elephants as wild like as possible,they should integrate Ming Jung with all of the Cowes, at once. It’s very unnatural to place a Cowe in the Bull paddock. The Bull should come to the Cowes and NOT the other way round. Doing Whipsnade’s technique is basically resulting in a forced mating. The Cowe has nowhere to escape from Ming Jung’s advances. Another reason that forcing the Cowe into the Bull Paddock is detrimental is their split from the heard. In this situation Whipsnade Zoo are highly hypocritical.Whipsnade stopped the Elephantastic shows was to make the Herds life more naturalistic. This breeding solution defeats this object,it’s far from natural. Another unnatural activity Whipsnade did with the Elephants more so Karishma was making her paint. A couple of times Karishma’s been encouraged to paint. This is totally Unnaturalistic. I don’t understand why Whipsnade ceased the Elephant Shows and Walks. These were far more natural than encouraging the Elephants to paint and moving a Cowe into Ming Jung’s Bull Paddock to breed.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

don’t understand why Whipsnade ceased the Elephant Shows and Walks. These were far more natural than encouraging the Elephants to paint

The thing with the elephant shows and walks is that they were practiced in free contact, highly dangerous for both keepers and the elephants alike, and regarding moving a cow into the bull paddock to mate is much more practical as it would allow more a much more successful mating, and it prevents nontarget cows from falling pregnant (e.g. four-year-old females that is already cycling). And many zoos around the world practice moving a single cow or a few select cows in with a bull San Diego did something similar when introducing Msholo to three adult females and their calves.

 

[ZCChip]

Some cows are, for lack of better words, cock blocks. Lucha at whipsnade, funnily enough, is actually one example of this. She will interrupt the breeding process between a bull and another cow as much as possible, to the point she will actually use her trunk to grab the bulls penis and prevent successful copulation.

What did I just read?!

okay… I understand both sides of the fence. We know that captive elephants can and may cycle earlier because they are getting better nutrition than they would be in the wild.
If Lucha is one of the reasons to separate the cow when she’s cycling, whipsnade has a valid reason to do so.

it may be safer to separate the cow to move her into the bull’s enclosure as he may be temperamental and not willing to return to his enclosure.

but every zoo is different. We saw Radza exist peacefully in the herd settling but Emmen bred and bred. Now most of the cows there can’t breed anymore (I wish they would because they desperately need females). Bindu at Cologne is too aggressive alledgly to be kept with others.

I like how Chester runs things. They allow the bull to mingle but their facilities are not conductive for bringing the female to his enclosure that I am aware of.

 

[ZCChip]

The thing with the elephant shows and walks is that they were practiced in free contact, highly dangerous for both keepers and the elephants alike.

Interesting you say that. There is a photo of a certain male calf tied to his mother at a certain Switzerland zoo being walked in free contact on social media Most of the reactions was critical.

this zoo better hurry up and update the facilities and management to modern times.

 

[Jambo]

Also as others have said Whipsnade breed by moving the selected cow in the bull paddock, and they wouldn't have actively done this with Elizabeth at her age.

They do, and it’s not just to prevent other females from ‘falling pregnant’ that they don’t want too. Karishma spent a lot of time in with Ming Jung early on, following his arrival, with Elizabeth. I assume this wasn’t for breeding, and merely just a sort of introduction and getting Elizabeth used to being around a bull.

Australian Zoos have also sometimes introduced their cows in pairs; sometimes in a 1.1 situation the male can be extremely domineering towards the single female (due to him wanting to mate with her), so zoos usually bring another female too so his interest will be differentiated to both.

 

[Jambo]

Another unnatural activity Whipsnade did with the Elephants more so Karishma was making her paint. A couple of times Karishma’s been encouraged to paint. This is totally Unnaturalistic.

This is mainly enrichment for the elephants, and the elephants actually thoroughly enjoy doing this.

It’s very unnatural to place a Cowe in the Bull paddock. The Bull should come to the Cowes and NOT the other way round. Doing Whipsnade’s technique is basically resulting in a forced mating. The Cowe has nowhere to escape from Ming Jung’s advances. Another reason that forcing the Cowe into the Bull Paddock is detrimental is their split from the heard.

If the cows do not cope well with the bulls repetitive advances (and this depends on the bull too); the zoo will often allow her to go in with another female too for support (and also for distraction - mating wise). Some females though go with the bull alone; Lucha (who is very assertive and dosen’t allow a lot of mating) can be grouped with the bull as well. Azizah was very much the same (besides the latter part of course).

 

[ZCChip]

Allow me to bring up another point to discuss. There are some behavioral non breeders. Could it be due to that they never have observed the actual courtship and breeding behavior?
There are plenty of videos of this behavior on YouTube especially of African elephants in the wild.

 

[Jambo]

Allow me to bring up another point to discuss. There are some behavioral non breeders. Could it be due to that they never have observed the actual courtship and breeding behavior?
There are plenty of videos of this behavior on YouTube especially of African elephants in the wild.

That is believed to be the case. I don't think it comes down to anything else besides them never observed other bulls mating a cow before; and thus have to figure it out themselves. Some never do.

 

[Zoofan15]

Allow me to bring up another point to discuss. There are some behavioral non breeders. Could it be due to that they never have observed the actual courtship and breeding behavior?
There are plenty of videos of this behavior on YouTube especially of African elephants in the wild.

That is believed to be the case. I don't think it comes down to anything else besides them never observed other bulls mating a cow before; and thus have to figure it out themselves. Some never do.

Another reason could be an anatomical issue. Tang Mo at Taronga has a narrow reproductive tract, which made natural mating uncomfortable for her. This contributed to her rejecting the advances of the bull and AI being trialled (sadly without success).

 

[Pongo]

It’s the method almost every accredited zoo in the world follows. Bulls don’t live with the matriarchal herd in the wild, they visit; so zoos replicate this by placing the cow they want to breed from in the company of the bull.

Quotation from the EAZA best practice guidelines:

- Bulls should not be kept in long-term physical isolation and should have many opportunities
for socialisation. Collections should run animals together where possible as social learning
gained by calves from bulls is hugely important.

- Collections must have an appropriate separable area for bull for times of required separation.
This may be through the bull’s choice, in which case keepers may monitor and physically
separate the bull, or due to a non-breeding recommendation from the EEP. Additionally, the
bull may need to be separated if the welfare of the female(s) becomes compromised.

= = =

I agree with you that bulls only visit in the wild and don't live with the cows permanently but the "visiting" certainly is not replaced by putting a cow in the bull enclosure to mate every few years. Having them together permanently is also wrong though. I think it differs from zoo to zoo how they do it. With regards to mating in the herd I rather see the problem in the wanted and needed birth control.

 

[Okavango]

I agree that practicing mating separately is much more practical in managing elephants. But, in my opinion, the ideal is to recreate conditions closest to those of wild elephants. It's very important that the mating is accepted by the whole group, whether they are females, young females and young males. This generally prevents young individuals from becoming behavioral non-breeders.

In order to limit the problems you have indicated, the ideal might be to practice mating separately but in eye contact with the rest of the group. This was practiced in La Palmyre after 2006 in order to prevent the male from mating his daughters. Thus, the breeding male and female were separated from the rest of the group by electric wires during breeding periods.

That is believed to be the case. I don't think it comes down to anything else besides them never observed other bulls mating a cow before; and thus have to figure it out themselves. Some never do.

Another reason could be an anatomical issue. Tang Mo at Taronga has a narrow reproductive tract, which made natural mating uncomfortable for her. This contributed to her rejecting the advances of the bull and AI being trialled (sadly without success).

And sometimes these two problems combine. For example, Gandhi from La Palmyre. He left his natal group very young and may not have had the opportunity to see matings. Moreover, he is relatively short on legs. I recently learned that so far he has not been able to mate with Ziha, because he couldn't penetrate the female properly. However, it has already been three years since he was introduced to the cows.