Asian Elephants

J

Jacobea

Well-Known Member
Apologies if this is the wrong forum :o

I was wondering (having been reading through the Elephant's Encyclopaedia website recently); is any effort made to breed the subspecies of Asian elephant seperately (Bornean, Indian, Sri Lankan, Sumatran) :confused:

I have a feeling that this not the case, but I suppose that's better than having no Asian eles at all :cool:
 
Unfortunately we do not have time to worry ourselves with breeding subspecies for Elephas Maximus. The captive population in the US is slowly decreasing due to a higher death rate than birth rate. If the population was stable in captivity I'm sure we would differentiate the subspecies but we do not have the time.
 
Since it has become more difficult to import Asian elephants for circus purposes, the Ringling organization in America claims (on its website) to have bred 22 young elephants with more on the way since it set up a breeding centre (or center, as they call it.)

Amazing what they can do when they need to!
 
I wouldn't think so, most established herds in zoos are filled with elephants of all different descent, though zoos near countries of zoos in countries that locally have elephants usually have the same subspecies. Singapore was a good example, until Intan and Aprila arrived. Though Taping zoo and zoo negara in Malaysia are good examples as well as some zoos in India and Thailand.
 
I suspected as much (no/litte seperate subspecies breeding). Still, as I said, better mixed Asian elephants than none at all :)
 
Unfortunately only two thirds of the calves born at the Barnum and Bailey Conservation Center survived to adulthood.
 
Jacobea said:
Bornean, Indian, Sri Lankan, Sumatran
Click to expand...

Elephants from India, Sri Lanka and mainland Indochina are all one subspecies accordng to DNA. Almost all elephants outside Malaysia and Indonesia are of this form.

Sumatran subspecies is in great conservation need. I think only ones in zoos are in Indonesia and two females in Berlin Tierpark (which breed with Indian male). Wild eles in Sumatra apparently locally make great crop damage because of overcrowding in small reserves, so strange that some are not captured and find their way to Western zoos.

Little Bornean elephants are curiously, Javan subspecies. This fits their similarity to bones of extinct Javan elephants and local tradition. Apparently Javan monarch gave big numbers of elephants to Bornean monarch who let some free. Meanwhile, wild elephants went extinct on their native Java centuries ago. I think they are not found outside Borneo. I have no idea about domestic and zoo elephants of this form in Borneo.
 
If they're all gentically the same, then no cross breedings really been going on then, which is good to hear. I would have expected the island ones to be different, as island versions of species usually are. It seems that zoos (starting with Berlin Tierpark...) may need to start considering keeping Sumatran and Borneans out of the "mainland" genepool. Doubtless "pygmy" elephants could be quite a draw :)

On the subject of genetic resevoirs; still trawling through the Ele Encyc, I found this place:

Elephants at Pinnawela elephant orphanage in Sri Lanka

They say numbers are getting somewhat unmanageable. Now if only we could be allowed to help and import a few of their young orphans (US zoos, it seems, would certainly appreciate some) :rolleyes:
 
In the past many Sumatran elephants were brought into some Dutch zoos because Indonesia was a Dutch colony. Some important (Dutch) men gave an elephant as a gift to a Dutch zoo. So, the Sumatran elephant was very common in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague. But they were not breeding.

After the Second World War and after Indonesia became independent only the Indian elephants were brought to The Netherlands and I think most of the European zoo has only Indian elephants, occasionally Sumatrans. I've heard that Paradisio will take only Sumatrans, but not sure if thats true. It might be that in the past Sumatran and Indian elephants were interbreeding because the zoos were not aware or did not care.

Most elephants in Dutch/Belgium zoos are from Burma (or have parents from Burma), like all of Emmen with exception for Radza who came from India. The elephants of Artis and Amersfoort are all from Burma, and so are Yu Yu Yin, Khaing Phyo Phyo of Antwerp. For Rotterdam I'm not sure, but Timber has a Burmese mother
 
ColumbusZoo001 said:
Unfortunately only two thirds of the calves born at the Barnum and Bailey Conservation Center survived to adulthood.
Click to expand...

Is this because of both of their main breeding bulls have TB?

Of the elephants In rotterdam Douanita is a vienamese elephant and Irma is born of both Thai parents. And the other cows that left a few years ago Dina and Yasmin were born off Irma, not sure but I think Ramon was of Indian. And since Alexander bred with most of the herd, that is mixed in with his genes. Not fully certain but his parents Motek and Warda I think are of Malaysian elephants.
 
ColumbusZoo001 said:
Unfortunately only two thirds of the calves born at the Barnum and Bailey Conservation Center survived to adulthood.
Click to expand...


1. Actually the center in Polk City opened in 1995, 3 years after Ringling's first birth in its breeding program that began in Williston.

2. And since Ringling started their program in 1992, most of their calves have yet to reach adulthood, because they are still juveniles.

3. There are actually 23 births - one was a stillbirth that they dont publically count.

4. And of the 23 only 5 have died. (78.3 % survival rate)

5. Now many could count all the previous (1983-92) elephant births through Roman Schmidt's elephants who now make up the nucleus of Ringling's breeding center. However these elephants lived in various places (Circus World, Busch Gardens) before they made their way to Ringling Brothers.
 
I also don't quite get the deal between the center and the circus. The center only has at the most 6-8 breeding cows. Prime bpossible breeding cows are being sent to preform in the circus though, do they really need 24 elephants to preform in the show? I understand that there are 3 different tours on, but couldn't the possible breeding cows be kept at the center to try to attempt to breed them with one of the bulls there? Of the four adult bulls there only two are used for breeding or in the case of Rajah has succesfully become a sire. Does anyone know when Casey is due to come back from Fort worth?
 
The center and the circus are the same. Same ownership, same management. The reason why the breeding center exists is to produce elephants for the use in the circus. They think they need large travelling herds and that is more important then breeding all the females in prime breeding age. Their priority is to fulfil the needs of the circus, nothing else. Not the needs of the individual elephants, not saving the species.
 
With their most recent birth, Ringling Bros has been able to AI an elephant on tour and bring her back to the center for the birth. Now any breeding age elephant managed by Ringling Bros can be used for breeding.
 
I would say it is more so used as a reitrment home than a breeding facility, good that the elephants are retired there. And the Tigers are given to Big cat rescue which is also good.
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
I would say it is more so used as a reitrment home than a breeding facility, good that the elephants are retired there. And the Tigers are given to Big cat rescue which is also good.
Click to expand...

If it is a retirement center, then why are most of the elephants there for breeding or calves?
 
of the 30 elephants at the center at the most 7 cows are able to breed. 3 are female calves under 5. There are 5 bull calves under 10. Doc I think won't be used for breeding any time soon as Charlie is still the main breeding bull. 2 bulls that have been proven breeders. 1 bull in his 30's that hasn't sire one calf and Vance who has sired 20 calves but the last of was which in 1996.
That leaves 10 retired and/or non-breeding cows.

So yes I apologise. There are more breeding & calf elephants combined than retired ones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top