Asian Leopard cub for sale

[Gentle Giant]

I was gobsmacked to read the advertisement of Asian Leopard cub and various animals like meerkat, otters and coatis for sale in Cage and Aviary Birds classifieds today, but I can't believe that it is allowed to sell leopard cub at this present time.

 

[nb123]

This is the company selling them, they are also selling porcupines, armadillo's, servals etc.

Species Available

 

[Paradoxurus]

I was gobsmacked to read the advertisement of Asian Leopard cub and various animals like meerkat, otters and coatis for sale in Cage and Aviary Birds classifieds today, but I can't believe that it is allowed to sell leopard cub at this present time.

Asian Leopard Cat kittens one presumes. Non-EEP Leopards, i.e. those that might be available 'for sale' are few and far between nowadays.

 

[Gentle Giant]

Oh, that is a different cat, although the advertisement were not clearly saying about the leopard cat, as it should state that asian leopard cat kitten, not a bloody leopard cub!

 

[peacockpheasant]

I was gobsmacked to read the advertisement of Asian Leopard cub and various animals like meerkat, otters and coatis for sale in Cage and Aviary Birds classifieds today, but I can't believe that it is allowed to sell leopard cub at this present time.

They are actually selling Leopard Cats.

Why exactly would it be an issue to sell a leopard cub at "this present time"?

There are plenty of large exotics in private hands and many breeders have better breeding results than public collections (myself included). Any individual who maintains DWA species is subject to annual inspection so I really fail to see any issue here.

In all honesty the private keepers of large cats I know (both former and present) provide much better accomodation in terms of size and quality than a certain defunct collection in kent.

 

[Paix]

They are actually selling Leopard Cats.

Why exactly would it be an issue to sell a leopard cub at "this present time"?

There are plenty of large exotics in private hands and many breeders have better breeding results than public collections (myself included). Any individual who maintains DWA species is subject to annual inspection so I really fail to see any issue here.

In all honesty the private keepers of large cats I know (both former and present) provide much better accomodation in terms of size and quality than a certain defunct collection in kent.

My thoughts exactly. If a private owner can provide the correct conditions, enrichment, space, time, effort etc, I really do not see a problem within selling such animals. I presume, there is also a great responsibility from the owner, to only sell to an individual who would actually care for these species properly...

 

[Gentle Giant]

They are actually selling Leopard Cats.

Why exactly would it be an issue to sell a leopard cub at "this present time"?

There are plenty of large exotics in private hands and many breeders have better breeding results than public collections (myself included). Any individual who maintains DWA species is subject to annual inspection so I really fail to see any issue here.

In all honesty the private keepers of large cats I know (both former and present) provide much better accomodation in terms of size and quality than a certain defunct collection in kent.

Personally, I don't agree the private keepers should sell the animals into private hands. I have expressed concerns over the keeping of other exotic pets. Unfortunately, a lot of people who take on an exotic animal as a pet are not fully aware of its needs. Some wild animals have very specific requirements to maintain their health and welfare which may be feasible in a domestic environment and without very expect knowledge of the species. Most were sold out the back door with no records or pedigrees.

 

[Gentle Giant]

This is the company selling them, they are also selling porcupines, armadillo's, servals etc.

Species Available

The owners also are running the kennels and cattery in Wiltshire.

 

[peacockpheasant]

Personally, I don't agree the private keepers should sell the animals into private hands. I have expressed concerns over the keeping of other exotic pets. Unfortunately, a lot of people who take on an exotic animal as a pet are not fully aware of its needs. Some wild animals have very specific requirements to maintain their health and welfare which may be feasible in a domestic environment and without very expect knowledge of the species. Most were sold out the back door with no records or pedigrees.

I'm not sure what to make of this.

Anything that requires a DWAL is pretty rigorously vetted. Any species which can be exhibited in a zoo could be maintained by a private keeper (and the animals will enjoy levels of privacy zoos can only provide at off-exhibit centres) assuming their finances are sound.

From my experience the vast, vast majority of private breeders/keepers provide their animals with enclosures which easily compete with those in zoos if not surpass them. Let’s not forget that many zoo’s can barely provide species in their care with facilities which meet minimum standards and fall short of recommended standards (RSCC, Bristol, Twycross, London).

I really would like to know your source for this:
"most were sold out the back door with no records or pedigrees"

 

[Gentle Giant]

I'm not sure what to make of this.

Anything that requires a DWAL is pretty rigorously vetted. Any species which can be exhibited in a zoo could be maintained by a private keeper (and the animals will enjoy levels of privacy zoos can only provide at off-exhibit centres) assuming their finances are sound.

From my experience the vast, vast majority of private breeders/keepers provide their animals with enclosures which easily compete with those in zoos if not surpass them. Let’s not forget that many zoo’s can barely provide species in their care with facilities which meet minimum standards and fall short of recommended standards (RSCC, Bristol, Twycross, London).

I really would like to know your source for this:
"most were sold out the back door with no records or pedigrees"

Most of all UK zoos are affiliated to Zoo Associations (these include the British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquaria (BIAZA) and EAZA). Both of these associations require that their members follow strict guidelines concerning breeding and animal trade. Guidelines request that zoos do not trade with non-affiliated zoos or animal dealers. The aim is to ensure that transferred animals are rehomed in conditions that meet the standards required by the association.

BIAZA Transaction Policy Updated 2009

http://www.biaza.org.uk/resources/library/images/ATP09.pdf

 

[peacockpheasant]

Most of all UK zoos are affiliated to Zoo Associations (these include the British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquaria (BIAZA) and EAZA). Both of these associations require that their members follow strict guidelines concerning breeding and animal trade. Guidelines request that zoos do not trade with non-affiliated zoos or animal dealers. The aim is to ensure that transferred animals are rehomed in conditions that meet the standards required by the association.

BIAZA Transaction Policy Updated 2009

http://www.biaza.org.uk/resources/library/images/ATP09.pdf

So what exactly does any of the above have to do with this?

Where exactly do you think zoos get most of their birds, reptiles and many small mammals?

 

[Chlidonias]

this is what it says on the site selling the animals:

Wild Animal Breeder are a DEFRA Licensed Zoo Quarantine Establishment and Carrying Agents for Exotic Animals.
Licensed Breeding Centre of Exotic Animals located in the South West Of England
We have also malgimated with The Specialist Keeper Association, known as TSKA

It also clearly states that a DWAL licence is needed for the leopard cats.
I don't see the problem. In fact I wished I lived in the UK so I could get some kinkajous and two-toed sloths!

 

[Shorts]

Unfortunately, a lot of people who take on an exotic animal as a pet are not fully aware of its needs. Some wild animals have very specific requirements to maintain their health and welfare which may be feasible in a domestic environment and without very expect knowledge of the species.

I disagree with this statement. I make the point that a number of people who obtain more traditional pets (cats, dogs, rabbits) prove unable to look after them properly but that doesn't mean everybody should be prevented from having pets. Also, given "exotic" animals are often considerably more expensive than domestic pets I think it's less likely people would (spend a lot of money and) not look after them properly. Personally I think the DWAL system (apart from the vast variation in fees) avoids a lot of potential problems and most breeders of exotics are very carefuly of where they're placing them.

Most were sold out the back door with no records or pedigrees.

Let's have some credible evidence to match that bold, and I strongly suspect inaccurate, statement.

 

[johnstoni]

While I am uncomfortable with seeing exotic stock for sale in open classifieds and websites (I always favoured NAPAK as the best way to establish a level of coordination and for private wild animal keepers), I do think its important to look at the wealth of private keepers as a resource that can contribute to overall captive populations, rather than a 'trade' that is detrimental to the species kept.

 

[Gentle Giant]

I disagree with this statement. I make the point that a number of people who obtain more traditional pets (cats, dogs, rabbits) prove unable to look after them properly but that doesn't mean everybody should be prevented from having pets. Also, given "exotic" animals are often considerably more expensive than domestic pets I think it's less likely people would (spend a lot of money and) not look after them properly. Personally I think the DWAL system (apart from the vast variation in fees) avoids a lot of potential problems and most breeders of exotics are very carefuly of where they're placing them.



Let's have some credible evidence to match that bold, and I strongly suspect inaccurate, statement.

Furthermore, the last leopard was sold to a private collection, even though the owners had no paperwork. They ended up to the court and fined hefty fine.

Some private owners do not regard their animals as pets, and will argue strongly as to their unsuitability as such. They may build enclosures, create an environment and provide a diet attempting to emulate the standard of a licensed zoo. However, evidence demonstrates that this is not always the case.

Consequently, the public are encouraging to buy meerkats from the sellers, as it has a high demand due to the popularity of a commercial – an animated meerkat. They are not suitable as pets and are social animals that naturally live in family groups.

 

[peacockpheasant]

Furthermore, the last leopard was sold to a private collection, even though the owners had no paperwork. They ended up to the court and fined hefty fine.

Some private owners do not regard their animals as pets, and will argue strongly as to their unsuitability as such. They may build enclosures, create an environment and provide a diet attempting to emulate the standard of a licensed zoo. However, evidence demonstrates that this is not always the case.

Consequently, the public are encouraging to buy meerkats from the sellers, as it has a high demand due to the popularity of a commercial – an animated meerkat. They are not suitable as pets and are social animals that naturally live in family groups.

Some of the inaccuracies in this post are beyond belief and clearly regurgitated miss-informed posts from other threads.

The fact remains that keeping species like leopards IS regulated whereas the keeping of domestics is not. So perhaps you should show your concern somewhere it’s warranted?

I assure you that every private big cat keeper in the UK (that I know) provides better care and accommodation for their animals than certain licensed zoos.

You keep typing the word “evidence” but provide none.

 

[Paradoxurus]

Although I don't always agree with PeacockPheasant's opinions, I think that in this instance he is quite correct.

It is a shame that NAPAK has been inactive in the past few years as it did seek to act as a collective voice for responsible private keepers. More recently another organisation has been formed with similar objectives. index is attempting to do what has been desparately needed amongst the fraternity for many years and I wish it every success.

It is a fact that the populations of many species commonly held in private hands - raccoons, coatis, common palm civets, kinkajous, common marmosets for instance - are not managed at all well. Information on bloodlines is anecdotal and sketchy to new keepers. This is the biggest problem for would-be-breeders while husbandry issues are relatively insignificant. The breeding and keeping of DWAs is not half as hap-hazzard.