Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2021

[Zoofan15]

And hopefully we could be so natural birthing intervals of three to to four years being the new norm now. And hopefully Taronga will announce the pregnancy's of **** Tip (Sire Gung) , Pak Boon (Sire Putra Mas or Gung), Thong Dee (Sire Gung) and hopefully Tang Mo (Sire Putra Mas or Gung) but this is all wishful thinking of course.

Re. Taronga breeding. Somebody asked on social media if any of the cows were pregnant and were told they weren’t. With Anjalee arriving from Auckland next year, I imagine the plan is for her to settle into the herd (pregnancy hormones can affect behaviour) and then allow her and Thong Dee to fall pregnant.

Ideally Thong Dee would conceive a few months prior to Anjalee. This would allow Anjalee another chance to observe maternal care of a newborn immediately prior to her own birth; while having two calves in the herd of the same age would be advantageous to both calves.

The age gap between Sabai and Thong Dee’s next calf would be around eight years if Thong Dee conceives late 2022 - a typical gap for Taronga’s herd and would give Sabai a decent foundation of eight years social interaction with the female herd.

 

[Elephantelephant]

Pregnancy Announcement (Melbourne Zoo)

The following females have been announced as expecting calves:

0.1 Dokoon (1993)
0.1 Num Oi (2001)
0.1 Mali (2010)

The calves are due late 2022 to early 2023 and were all sired by the zoo’s bull, Luk Chai.

This will be Dokoon and Num Oi’s third calves and Mali’s first calf.

With the birth of Mali’s calf, a three generational matrilineal line will be created - starting with Mali’s mother Dokoon.

We have BIG news! We are so thrilled to announce that Melbourne Zoo’s Asian Elephant herd is expecting three babies, all naturally conceived, who will grow up together within the closely bonded herd at Melbourne Zoo, before moving to their new state-of-the-art home at Werribee Open Range Zoo in 2024.

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This is incredibly great news!!! Luk Chai took it very quickly. Let's hope all calves are born healthy. It will be a beautiful herd of elephants.

 

[Zoofan15]

This is incredibly great news!!! Luk Chai took it very quickly. Let's hope all calves are born healthy. It will be a beautiful herd of elephants.

Taronga did a great job of raising a socially well adjusted young bull. Staff noted that growing up, Luk Chai was gentle with the younger calves in the herd, allowing them to climb all over him.

He was taken to the bull paddock on numerous occasions to observe natural reproductive behaviour between his father and the cows.

As an adolescent, Luk Chai acted as a mentor to his younger brother - a role he continues to play at Melbourne to Man Jai.

I have no doubt that Luk Chai will continue to be a successful breeding bull at Zoos Victoria and a role model for his future sons.

 

[jay]

This is great news. And maybe I will go down and see them in 2023

 

[Zoofan15]

This is great news. And maybe I will go down and see them in 2023

They’ll be further excitement the following year when the herd moves to Werribee. It’ll give the zoo opportunities for more regular breeding and with the potential for cohorts of male births, give rise to them establishing a bachelor herd for the maturing bulls - in addition to a large multigenerational matriarchal herd.

 

[steveroberts]

Sooo good to know that Dokoon, Mali and Num Oi are all expecting calves, you guys are right Luk Chai and Mali certainly are getting productive young its amazing to remember not that long ago when there births were announced (went to Taronga several times to see Luk Chai as a baby). The news about the herd moving to Werribee is really great to hear especially as Melbourners can still very easily get to see them when they've moved.

 

[Zoofan15]

Sooo good to know that Dokoon, Mali and Num Oi are all expecting calves, you guys are right Luk Chai and Mali certainly are getting productive young its amazing to remember not that long ago when there births were announced (went to Taronga several times to see Luk Chai as a baby). The news about the herd moving to Werribee is really great to hear especially as Melbourners can still very easily get to see them when they've moved.

I’m glad Mali has had the opportunity to breed young. Her first calf will be born around her 13th birthday - giving her a strong foundation for a long and successful reproductive life.

I especially hope Num Oi has a female calf as she will be 22 years of age upon the birth of this calf and has no surviving offspring to date. As the most maternal cow in the herd, she’d benefit greatly from the opportunity to build up her own matrilineal line as Dokoon has done.

 

[Jambo]

Pregnancy Announcement (Melbourne Zoo)

The following females have been announced as expecting calves:

0.1 Dokoon (1993)
0.1 Num Oi (2001)
0.1 Mali (2010)

The calves are due late 2022 to early 2023 and were all sired by the zoo’s bull, Luk Chai.

This will be Dokoon and Num Oi’s third calves and Mali’s first calf.

With the birth of Mali’s calf, a three generational matrilineal line will be created - starting with Mali’s mother Dokoon.

We have BIG news! We are so thrilled to announce that Melbourne Zoo’s Asian Elephant herd is expecting three babies, all naturally conceived, who will grow up together within the closely bonded herd at Melbourne Zoo, before moving to their new state-of-the-art home at Werribee Open Range Zoo in 2024.

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The news we've all been hoping for! The best news from Melbourne in years.

Three young elephant calves all around the same age will be brilliant for the herd, especially given they will be heading to Werribee soon. It's a shame Kulab couldn't fall pregnant too.

I think also great to see all three females conceiving naturally, considering all the past babies were born through AI. Can't wait to see Mali becoming a mother for the first time, and Num Oi having a surviving calf. She deserves one.

 

[Zoofan15]

Details on Werribee Elephant Exhibit

I thought people may be interested in this document which outlines some aspects of the planned elephant facilities - including mention of a 50-100 year plan of elephant management succession (with 5-10 year updates based on elephant generations).

Also of interest was a size comparison of the proposed Werribee exhibit versus elephant exhibits at other zoos - including Taronga and Taronga Western Plains Zoo (Page 5).

https://zoolex.org/media/uploads/2020/07/15/2018_werribee_elephant_report_summary.pdf

 

[Swanson02]

Hey guys, new here to zoo chat
Great news to hear out of Melbourne, makes me excited for the future of elephants in Aus. Let's hope we get at least one girl out of the bunch, although three young bulls wouldn't be as troublesome space-wise at Werribee than at Melbourne. Was the reason why Melbourne waited so long because they were afraid of having a glut of young bulls?

Also on my last trip to Monarto, I had a chat with one of the ungulate keepers. Who said he could see Monarto far down the track (after the construction of Wild Africa) given its proximity to Melbourne, potentially holding excess old and young bulls in a small bachelor group. However, this was just our theorizing, but it was interesting to see that he had already thought of and discussed the possibility with someone else

 

[Zoofan15]

Hey guys, new here to zoo chat
Great news to hear out of Melbourne, makes me excited for the future of elephants in Aus. Let's hope we get at least one girl out of the bunch, although three young bulls wouldn't be as troublesome space-wise at Werribee than at Melbourne. Was the reason why Melbourne waited so long because they were afraid of having a glut of young bulls?

Welcome to ZooChat!

Melbourne Zoo ceased breeding predominantly for space reasons. Their exhibit isn’t huge by modern standards and even a string of female births would have taken them over capacity as the calves matured.

The move to Werribee would have been on the cards for a long time before the public first heard of it a few years ago and they therefore delayed breeding for as long as it was safe to do so (re. cow’s reproductive health) combined with when they knew the move would take place.

The calves will be born in the exhibit at Melbourne, so it may look a little cramped for a while before they move to Werribee around a year later.

 

[steveroberts]

@Swanson02 Welcome to Zoochat really great to have you

 

[Jambo]

Hey guys, new here to zoo chat
Great news to hear out of Melbourne, makes me excited for the future of elephants in Aus. Let's hope we get at least one girl out of the bunch, although three young bulls wouldn't be as troublesome space-wise at Werribee than at Melbourne. Was the reason why Melbourne waited so long because they were afraid of having a glut of young bulls?

Also on my last trip to Monarto, I had a chat with one of the ungulate keepers. Who said he could see Monarto far down the track (after the construction of Wild Africa) given its proximity to Melbourne, potentially holding excess old and young bulls in a small bachelor group. However, this was just our theorizing, but it was interesting to see that he had already thought of and discussed the possibility with someone else

Like @Zoofan15 stated, Melbourne Zoo's enclosures are rather small and confined, so breeding was always done with much larger intervals to essentially control the population and not have too many animals at once.

Another main reason was the death of their previous bull, Bong Su a few years ago. They could only breed from him with AI and so this could only be done once every few years when the specialists from Europe came down. Following his death they could no longer source sperm from him and I believe rather then artificially inseminating their cows with sperm from a male such as Putra Mas, they decided to wait until they imported Luk Chai, which was planned a while back.

Also on my last trip to Monarto, I had a chat with one of the ungulate keepers. Who said he could see Monarto far down the track (after the construction of Wild Africa) given its proximity to Melbourne, potentially holding excess old and young bulls in a small bachelor group. However, this was just our theorizing, but it was interesting to see that he had already thought of and discussed the possibility with someone else

This would be great for the region to have a zoo willing to serve as a bachelor zoo for the region, holding young and excess bulls. I think the plan is for Werribee to hold two herds, a bachelor one and a breeding one as they certainly will have the space for one. Though especially considering the limited space elsewhere and the regional population increasing over time, I can definitely see Monarto holding a bachelor group down the line.

 

[StoppableSan]

Like @Zoofan15 stated, Melbourne Zoo's enclosures are rather small and confined, so breeding was always done with much larger intervals to essentially control the population and not have too many animals at once.

Another main reason was the death of their previous bull, Bong Su a few years ago. They could only breed from him with AI and so this could only be done once every few years when the specialists from Europe came down. Following his death they could no longer source sperm from him and I believe rather then artificially inseminating their cows with sperm from a male such as Putra Mas, they decided to wait until they imported Luk Chai, which was planned a while back.



This would be great for the region to have a zoo willing to serve as a bachelor zoo for the region, holding young and excess bulls. I think the plan is for Werribee to hold two herds, a bachelor one and a breeding one as they certainly will have the space for one. Though especially considering the limited space elsewhere and the regional population increasing over time, I can definitely see Monarto holding a bachelor group down the line.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Melbourne to continue holding a bachelor group of elephants while Werribee had the breeding group?

 

[Jambo]

Wouldn't it make more sense for Melbourne to continue holding a bachelor group of elephants while Werribee had the breeding group?

Possibly, that could be an option although I believe Melbourne plan to phase them out all together.

Werribee will have heaps of space anyways to have a bachelor group alongside their breeding group. This would have many additional benefits, as they wouldn't have to move the young bulls from Werribee to Melbourne when its time, and it also would work better for them socially, as they'd still be able to spend time with the herd as they get older.

 

[Zoofan15]

Also on my last trip to Monarto, I had a chat with one of the ungulate keepers. Who said he could see Monarto far down the track (after the construction of Wild Africa) given its proximity to Melbourne, potentially holding excess old and young bulls in a small bachelor group. However, this was just our theorizing, but it was interesting to see that he had already thought of and discussed the possibility with someone else

A bachelor facility at Monarto Zoo would be invaluable to the region as it would offer a contingency if there’s issues within the herd dynamics at either Werribee or Dubbo.

While Werribee is planning a bachelor herd, they need to consider that the presence of cows onsite could instigate competition amongst the bulls as they mature. Elephants are extremely complex in their communication - with auditory and olfactory senses being highly developed. Out of sight does not equal out of mind. Combined with different personalities and bulls entering their musth cycle, a bachelor herd at Werribee has no long term guarantee of working.

I see the ideal as Werribee forming a bachelor herd around Luk Chai, who mentors the juvenile bulls - which are in turn transferred to Monarto around adolescence or exported to zoos outside the region as was done with Ongard. Australasia’s elephant population is young and comparatively unrepresented - making our bulls valuable to other regions.

 

[Jambo]

A bachelor facility at Monarto Zoo would be invaluable to the region as it would offer a contingency if there’s issues within the herd dynamics at either Werribee or Dubbo.

While Werribee is planning a bachelor herd, they need to consider that the presence of cows onsite could instigate competition amongst the bulls as they mature. Elephants are extremely complex in their communication - with auditory and olfactory senses being highly developed. Out of sight does not equal out of mind. Combined with different personalities and bulls entering their musth cycle, a bachelor herd at Werribee has no long term guarantee of working.

I see the ideal as Werribee forming a bachelor herd around Luk Chai, who mentors the juvenile bulls - which are in turn transferred to Monarto around adolescence or exported to zoos outside the region as was done with Ongard. Australasia’s elephant population is young and comparatively unrepresented - making our bulls valuable to other regions.

Whilst it might not work, theres no harm in trying. I haven't heard of any zoos that have even tried to exhibit a permanent bachelor group and a breeding group next to each other, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Interestingly despite Gung being sent to Taronga Western Plains, I haven't seen any evidence of him being with any of their young bulls, Luk Chai, Pathi Harn or Sabai. I wonder if this is something to do with Gung's personality or maybe the fact they are displayed right next to the girls.

Denver have created a successful bachelor group, mainly because of Spike, a 50 year old former breeding male, who has taken charge of the herd. He is a great teacher to the younger bulls, and also keeps them all in check. Maybe Luk Chai could fulfil this role at Werribee.

I assume by 'bachelor group' they're referring to holding a temporary bachelor group of the males that are born at the zoo. They will grow up in the breeding herd, and then spend some time in the bachelor group to learn from the other bulls before being sent elsewhere.

The Sydney Zoo might be one of the zoos that could hold a small bachelor group in the long term. Although I don't see either Melbourne or Taronga having one.

 

[Swanson02]

The Sydney Zoo might be one of the zoos that could hold a small bachelor group in the long term. Although I don't see either Melbourne or Taronga having one.

Thank you very much guys for the kind welcome!

I agree, I think maintaining a small bachelor group would be the only way Sydney could go in the future (unless they expand). As aren't females nowadays likely to spend their whole life in their large family herds, in expansive open range exhibits. It's kind of interesting to think that in 20 years female elephants in Australasia will only be found in big herds, singular or paired females like Saigon, Tricia, Permai, Burma, and Anjalee I guess are the last ever of their kind (which is a good thing).

Also, another question, do any of the zoos in Australia actually state the maximum number of elephants their facilities are designed for, i.e. 6 elephants total at Taronga? If so do we have a list of all the facilities in Australia? Cheers again

 

[Zoofan15]

Thank you very much guys for the kind welcome!

I agree, I think maintaining a small bachelor group would be the only way Sydney could go in the future (unless they expand). As aren't females nowadays likely to spend their whole life in their large family herds, in expansive open range exhibits. It's kind of interesting to think that in 20 years female elephants in Australasia will only be found in big herds, singular or paired females like Saigon, Tricia, Permai, Burma, and Anjalee I guess are the last ever of their kind (which is a good thing).

Also, another question, do any of the zoos in Australia actually state the maximum number of elephants their facilities are designed for, i.e. 6 elephants total at Taronga? If so do we have a list of all the facilities in Australia? Cheers again

It’s always great to have new people join ZooChat, especially when they ask thought provoking questions and ignite interesting discussions.

On the first post of this thread there’s a complete list of all the facilities in Australasia that hold elephants. There’s currently seven - one in New Zealand; six in Australia. Of these seven facilities, three are confirmed to be phasing out elephants in the near future - Auckland, Melbourne and Perth.

You’re correct that zoos now try to replicate the wild social setting where females remain in their natal herd for life. The simplest reason this hasn’t been done historically was that elephants weren’t readily bred in zoos until the last few decades (and in Australasia not until 2009) and that most city zoos only the space to accomodate a couple of elephants.

Re. Holding capacities. Auckland Zoo’s current holding capacity is three cows; Melbourne’s cow paddock has a capacity of four cows and their bull paddock has a capacity of two bulls; Taronga Western Plains Zoo has five paddocks - the largest with a holding capacity of around seven to eight cows.

 

[Swanson02]

Thank you very much for the info
I didn't realise this forum existed so have a few questions which I think have not been answered previously.

Re. Holding capacities. Auckland Zoo’s current holding capacity is three cows; Melbourne’s cow paddock has a capacity of four cows and their bull paddock has a capacity of two bulls; Taronga Western Plains Zoo has five paddocks - the largest with a holding capacity of around seven to eight cows.

So by that logic, Melbourne with Mek Kapah, Dokkoon, Mali, Num-Oi, and Kulab are already beyond their cow carrying capacity? (Is this a big issue? Or is the capacity of 4 cows more of a guideline? Or is it more based on the number of stalls available in the cow's barn?) and surely Melbourne when importing their females back in the 2000s would have realised that they planned to have calves, which would have immediately put them over the limit. Likewise, with Auckland when they were attempting breeding, if Anjalee just had one calf they would have reached their capacity.

Interestingly despite Gung being sent to Taronga Western Plains, I haven't seen any evidence of him being with any of their young bulls, Luk Chai, Pathi Harn, or Sabai. I wonder if this is something to do with Gung's personality

I would have thought this was because Gung himself was poorly socialised with no older mentors (could have old Heman potentially provided this?) arriving in Australia quite young surrounded by females could have left him a bit apathetic and competitive with others males. Or maybe TWPZ just don't want to risk an injury to a younger male in a scuffle with Gung