Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2021

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15 Yeah they did get a much much better deal of living quarters with Dubbo, its a real shame that Heman never took to the change of environment. Ah so poor Burma was a herpes carrier thats sad. Yeah I thought there was a standby separation barrier at some point in the cramped Elephant temple exhibit but by the early 2000s but my memory has always been seeing her and Heman together even if they weren't necessarily right next to one another on the day and time of visiting them back in the day. Their move to Dubbo was intended as a much better deal for them yeah.

Wow thats an interesting article, had no idea the temple exhibit use to be even smaller than it already is, yikes

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15 Yeah they did get a much much better deal of living quarters with Dubbo, its a real shame that Heman never took to the change of environment. Ah so poor Burma was a herpes carrier thats sad. Yeah I thought there was a standby separation barrier at some point in the cramped Elephant temple exhibit but by the early 2000s but my memory has always been seeing her and Heman together even if they weren't necessarily right next to one another on the day and time of visiting them back in the day. Their move to Dubbo was intended as a much better deal for them yeah.

Wow thats an interesting article, had no idea the temple exhibit use to be even smaller than it already is, yikes

Burma wasn’t known to be a Herpes carrier, but she wasn’t known not to be either and it simply added to the case of why she shouldn’t have been integrated with the Thai imports. Even with hindsight, I struggle to see them making a different decision to this day.

Heman was a docile bull and the benefit he and Burma got from each other’s company was mutual. Looking at plans of the old exhibit, I wouldn’t be surprised if the primary function of the smaller exhibit was that of a holding yard while keepers cleaned the main exhibit; rather than to seperate Heman and Burma for any extended period.

The Elephant Temple was initially tiny, but certainly nothing unusual for its time. Auckland’s elephants were also housed in an elephant house with an adjoining yard; while Wellington Zoo had just a house.

Auckland Zoo’s Elephant House (1922-1992):

Historic Elephant House

• Zoofan15
• 16 Jul 2020
• 1

Photo taken 12/07/2020.

Wellington Zoo’s Elephant House (1927-1983):

Historic Elephant House (2019)

• Zoofan15
• 1 Jan 2020
• 1

The elephant house was built in 1927 and housed four elephants: Nellikuthra (between 1927-1944)...

 

[steveroberts]

What age does a male Asian Elephant leave their natal herd? I keep getting conflicting info online and would rather hear it from you guys

ps just a very rough estimate but it seems Taronga Western Plains 5 Elephant yards
combined are approximately 5.6 hectares/56,000 sq m/nearly 14 acres?

 

[Zoofan15]

What age does a male Asian Elephant leave their natal herd? I keep getting conflicting info online and would rather hear it from you guys

ps just a very rough estimate but it seems Taronga Western Plains 5 Elephant yards
combined are approximately 5.6 hectares/56,000 sq m/nearly 14 acres?

In the wild, male elephants typically leave their natal herd at 12-15 years of age; whereas in captivity they usually complete the separation process by around seven to eight years of age - as was done with Luk Chai, Pathi Harn, Ongard etc.

Elephant calves born in zoos mature faster due to optimum nutrition. Tukta, the female calf at Taronga was beginning to cycle at around four years of age.

In the wild, bulls typically don’t breed until they’re in their prime and can prove their dominance against other bulls. In captivity, this competition is removed and a young bull would certainly be able to impregnate cows in his natal herd by the age of eight or nine if not removed.

To use Gung as an example. He impregnated a same age/size cow at the age of seven years and an adult cow at the age of eight years. At this age, the cows decided they’d had enough of his constant attention re. mating and sought to evict him from their herd (by restricting his access to paddocks etc).

Yes that seems accurate re. size. It’s approximately a third of the size of the planned Werribee exhibits.

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15 Thanks so much as always for the detailed reply, yeah 7-8 makes sense considering when Gung moved into his solo quarters in the old Elephant yard and the first time I saw Putra Mas separated from Tricia, Permai and Teduh (late 1996/early 1997 if I remember correct). Wow so the female herd at Taronga actually began to ostracize Gung that's interesting to know, I think I've been too stuck on a cliche that the male Elephant wants to get away completely from the females at a certain age. Re:the maturity rate of captive Elephants makes heaps of sense now that I've read your explanation.

Wow so the Werribee exhibit could be as big as 168,000 sq m perhaps, I was blown away at 102,000 sq m I'd assumed from seeing 25ish acres, that's amazing. Makes sense too now that I think about it when I read Jambo mention that the exhibit would essentially be almost the size of Melbourne zoo itself thats brilliant. Thanks heaps to @Swanson02 for making me aware of Cabarceno Nature Park's existence in northern Spain that place looks absolutely brilliant. From a rough estimate their African Elephant paddock(s) seem to be at the very least 315,000 sq m but probably more because there was a big forested area behind the grass that was hard to tell if the fenceline was before or after this spot.

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15 Thanks so much as always for the detailed reply, yeah 7-8 makes sense considering when Gung moved into his solo quarters in the old Elephant yard and the first time I saw Putra Mas separated from Tricia, Permai and Teduh (late 1996/early 1997 if I remember correct). Wow so the female herd at Taronga actually began to ostracize Gung that's interesting to know, I think I've been too stuck on a cliche that the male Elephant wants to get away completely from the females at a certain age. Re:the maturity rate of captive Elephants makes heaps of sense now that I've read your explanation.

No problem!

Yes, it very much initiated by the females. Porntip (the matriarch) and her close friend Pak Boon were losing patience with Gung, who was constantly sparring with them (common behaviour for adolescent bulls) and his frequent attempts to mate. The zoo were anxious to avoid any undue stress on the cows, two of whom were pregnant by that stage.

On the subject of Putra Mas/Silup, I found this note (Perth Zoo Annual Report 2000):

Plans for Silup, our male Asian Elephant, to move to a new home in Texas did not eventuate. However, the staging of the renovations to the nearby orang-utan exhibit provided the opportunity to reinforce the elephant exhibit fence and will provide Silup with opportunities to exercise and explore in a much larger area than at present.

Interesting, as two years later (Perth Zoo Annual Report 2002):

In February 2002, the Zoo received support from the Perissodactyls and Proboscids (elephants, rhinoceros and zebra) Taxon Advisory Group to breed one of its young female elephants with its bull elephant. The recommendation followed a commitment from Auckland Zoo to accommodate a young bull if the breeding attempts produce a male calf. Elephant keeping staff have been monitoring the behaviour of the young female elephants to determine if and when they cycle.

 

[Jambo]

No problem!

Yes, it very much initiated by the females. Porntip (the matriarch) and her close friend Pak Boon were losing patience with Gung, who was constantly sparring with them (common behaviour for adolescent bulls) and his frequent attempts to mate. The zoo were anxious to avoid any undue stress on the cows, two of whom were pregnant by that stage.

On the subject of Putra Mas/Silup, I found this note (Perth Zoo Annual Report 2000):

Plans for Silup, our male Asian Elephant, to move to a new home in Texas did not eventuate. However, the staging of the renovations to the nearby orang-utan exhibit provided the opportunity to reinforce the elephant exhibit fence and will provide Silup with opportunities to exercise and explore in a much larger area than at present.

Interesting, as two years later (Perth Zoo Annual Report 2002):

In February 2002, the Zoo received support from the Perissodactyls and Proboscids (elephants, rhinoceros and zebra) Taxon Advisory Group to breed one of its young female elephants with its bull elephant. The recommendation followed a commitment from Auckland Zoo to accommodate a young bull if the breeding attempts produce a male calf. Elephant keeping staff have been monitoring the behaviour of the young female elephants to determine if and when they cycle.

That is correct. He was originally going to Fort Worth but I believe he wouldn’t enter his crate so they got another, older male instead.

That’s interesting. This was a little before Taronga, Melbourne and Auckland took on the Thai elephant import. So Auckland wanted a son of Putra Mas and one of their females?

 

[Zoofan15]

That is correct. He was originally going to Fort Worth but I believe he wouldn’t enter his crate so they got another, older male instead.

That’s interesting. This was a little before Taronga, Melbourne and Auckland took on the Thai elephant import. So Auckland wanted a son of Putra Mas and one of their females?

It seems a bizarre construct that Auckland Zoo were committing to acquire a bull that wouldn’t be arriving for a minimum of a decade. Presumably because they had no bull facilities at the time and would have appreciated the time to construct them.

Auckland Zoo were debating whether to breed Kashin through AI in 1994. These plans were abandoned due to her health (arthritis). It’s a shame they didn’t follow through, but with Burma who was then 12 years old and in excellent health. They attempted AI with Burma in the early 2000’s, but abandoned it due to her being uncomfortable/uncooperative with the procedure.

 

[Jambo]

From this 2019-20 Annual report it appears Gung is continuing training for AI, which is interesting:

'Gung' the bull Asian Elephant has continued training and conditioning for semen collection. The process is progressing well despite 'Gung’s' irregular musth cycles.

https://taronga.org.au/sites/default/files/2021-01/Taronga_Annual_Report_2019_2020.pdf

 

[Zoofan15]

From this 2019-20 Annual report it appears Gung is continuing training for AI, which is interesting:

'Gung' the bull Asian Elephant has continued training and conditioning for semen collection. The process is progressing well despite 'Gung’s' irregular musth cycles.

https://taronga.org.au/sites/default/files/2021-01/Taronga_Annual_Report_2019_2020.pdf

I’d imagine this was continued for the sole purpose of inseminating Pak Boon at Taronga Zoo.

Tukta’s death in September 2018 reduced Gung and Pak Boon’s combined line to a single calf (16 month old Jai Dee) and there would have been no reason not to breed from Pak Boon again in the future.

Jai Dee’s subsequent death in October 2020 only strengthens the case of why Pak Boon and Tang Mo should move to Dubbo in my opinion, as they’ve been now reduced to a herd of two.

I struggle to see a future for elephants at Taronga, but if they think otherwise, a swap of the two cows for Pathi Harn at Dubbo seems the logical way to go.

 

[Jambo]

I’d imagine this was continued for the sole purpose of inseminating Pak Boon at Taronga Zoo.

Tukta’s death in September 2018 reduced Gung and Pak Boon’s combined line to a single calf (16 month old Jai Dee) and there would have been no reason not to breed from Pak Boon again in the future.

Jai Dee’s subsequent death in October 2020 only strengthens the case of why Pak Boon and Tang Mo should move to Dubbo in my opinion, as they’ve been now reduced to a herd of two.

I struggle to see a future for elephants at Taronga, but if they think otherwise, a swap of the two cows for Pathi Harn at Dubbo seems the logical way to go.

Maybe they're waiting for Sabai to get older until he and Pathi Harn are sent to Taronga in replacement for Pak Boon and Tang Mo.

 

[Swanson02]

I struggle to see a future for elephants at Taronga, but if they think otherwise, a swap of the two cows for Pathi Harn at Dubbo seems the logical way to go.

I assume Taronga is reluctant to phase out their elephants as they don't want to hand their new competitor Sydney Zoo an advantage? I.e. in comparison to other institutions phasing out elephants with no local rivals like Melbourne, Auckland, and Perth. I also wonder how Kavi and Ashoka will fit into the national breeding program once they mature a bit more. As I could see Sydney being quite reluctant in the future when handing them over to the institutions (Taronga and Melbourne) that refused to give them any local elephants in the first place. Forcing them to take the more expensive route of importing from Europe.

Also, is the statement that bulls (especially young bulls) need more exhibit space than cows true? As in because they are more hyperactive and aggressive they need more room to exercise? Or is it the same space between both sexes?

 

[Zoofan15]

I assume Taronga is reluctant to phase out their elephants as they don't want to hand their new competitor Sydney Zoo an advantage? I.e. in comparison to other institutions phasing out elephants with no local rivals like Melbourne, Auckland, and Perth. I also wonder how Kavi and Ashoka will fit into the national breeding program once they mature a bit more. As I could see Sydney being quite reluctant in the future when handing them over to the institutions (Taronga and Melbourne) that refused to give them any local elephants in the first place. Forcing them to take the more expensive route of importing from Europe.

I suspect that’s the main reason. Although they would gain a PR advantage over their competitor in phasing out the elephants, this would be temporary and outweighed by the long term impact of their rival holding what would be a significant drawcard. Sydney Zoo were smart enough to import several high profile species at a time where a lot of the main zoos are downsizing their collections (an unpopular trend with the public).

At this stage, I can’t see either Taronga or Zoos Victoria having a need for Sydney’s bulls for some time. The three founders (Bong Su, Putra Mas and Gung) will sustain the regional population for some time to come. Putra Mas would sire offspring to the theoretical daughter of Mali, who may not come for many years (i.e. Mali may have a succession of male offspring).

Also, is the statement that bulls (especially young bulls) need more exhibit space than cows true? As in because they are more hyperactive and aggressive they need more room to exercise? Or is it the same space between both sexes?

The indoor facilities for bulls are recommended to be built slightly larger and take into account their ability to reach greater heights. From the EAZA:

Spoiler: EAZA Elephant Guidelines

However, it is recommended that all indoor cow/herd facilities, where animals are locked in for a considerable period, provide at least 300 m2 for each group of four (or fewer) animals, and for each additional animal over two years of age, increase this space by at least 80 m2, provided that the indoor facility is a complex environment. Even in the most compatible herds, consisting of related animals, individuals have the need to be able to retreat.

It is recommended that the indoor facility for a mature bull provide at least 160 m2 and should take into account their ability to reach vertically up to six metres, and up to eight metres if able to climb their front legs against a wall. Bachelor groups of adolescent bulls, even when unrelated, tend to stick together and even sleep side by side at night. As adolescent bachelor bulls grow older it is necessary to split up individuals for short periods (e.g. during night-time). The facility should then still be able to provide sufficient space for each individual until the animals are re-united.

Outdoor areas for adult bulls and cows (i.e. over two years) should provide all animals with a shared space of 3,000 m2 throughout the year. The outside bull pen should be no smaller than 1000m2, or 500m2 in cases of separation lasting only for a maximum of a couple of hours a day. If possible, the bull should be allowed to roam with the cow herd.

A

 

[Mr.Ivory]

Why didn't Heman ever sire claves during his life time was he a behavioral non breeder or did the cows he was housed with simply not allow him to mate with them.

 

[Zoofan15]

Why didn't Heman ever sire claves during his life time was he a behavioral non breeder or did the cows he was housed with simply not allow him to mate with them.

Heman was a behavioural non breeder. The zoo had several cows when he arrived as a seven year old in 1963 - including a five year old and an eight year old, so they would otherwise have had an ideal starting base.

Burma arrived in 1982 as a 23 year old and had social issues, which would have further complicated any chances of reproduction. She did however prove to be a good companion to Heman.

 

[IndianRhino]

Why didn't Heman ever sire claves during his life time was he a behavioral non breeder or did the cows he was housed with simply not allow him to mate with them.

I also wonder why he never sired any claves. Actually now that I think about it, I’ve never heard of any elephants that produce claves

In all seriousness though, I was wondering the same thing. Thanks for the detailed answer @Zoofan15. It’s disappointing that his valuable genes were never utilized.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

Heman was a behavioural non breeder. The zoo had several cows when he arrived as a seven year old in 1963 - including a five year old and an eight year old, so they would otherwise have had an ideal starting base.

Burma arrived in 1982 as a 23 year old and had social issues, which would have further complicated any chances of reproduction. She did however prove to be a good companion to Heman.

She also proved to be an excellent sparring partner, and it is interesting to know that he was housed with several females two of which he could have bred with, which in the long term would have improved the genetics of the population by a lot he could have sired at least several calves and maybe more before his death in 2006

 

[Zoofan15]

Historic Overview of Taronga’s Elephants (1963-2005)

1.0 Heman (00/00/1956) Transferred 2005

I had a look through the elephant database and was staggered with how many Asian elephants Taronga Zoo had when Heman arrived - and the list below doesn’t even include those that died the year they arrived or the many elephants that were quarantined at Taronga before being sent to circuses e.g. Saigon who now lives at Sydney Zoo.

The following Asian elephants were at Taronga Zoo when Heman arrived in 1963:

1.0 Gandhi (00/00/1912) Arrived 1950; Died 1968
0.1 Ranee (00/00/1909) Arrived 1938; Died 1971
0.1 Jill (00/00/1913) Arrived 1935; Died 1977
0.1 Sarina (00/00/1933) Arrived 1938; Died 1971
0.1 Gilda (00/00/1948) Arrived 1962; Transferred 1968
0.1 Ranee II (00/00/1955) Arrived 1962; Died 1998
0.1 Joan (00/00/1958) Arrived 1962; Died 1976
0.1 Helene (00/00/1958) Arrived 1962; Transferred 1968
0.1 Gigi (00/00/1958) Arrived 1962; Transferred 1968

As shown, three cows were sold to circuses in 1968 after a six year stay at Taronga Zoo.

One more arrived during Heman’s time at Taronga:

0.1 Burma (00/00/1959) Arrived 1982; Transferred 2005

Once again, I’m astounded how many elephants Taronga had at one time - five young females arrived in 1962 alone; with Heman arriving the following year. It should be noted that the zoo was under the direction of Sir Edward Hallstrom during this time, who personally financed the acquisition of many exciting imports.

 

[Jambo]

Historic Overview of Taronga’s Elephants (1963-2005)

1.0 Heman (00/00/1956) Transferred 2005

I had a look through the elephant database and was staggered with how many Asian elephants Taronga Zoo had when Heman arrived - and the list below doesn’t even include those that died the year they arrived or the many elephants that were quarantined at Taronga before being sent to circuses e.g. Saigon who now lives at Sydney Zoo.

The following Asian elephants were at Taronga Zoo when Heman arrived in 1963:

1.0 Gandhi (00/00/1912) Arrived 1950; Died 1968
0.1 Ranee (00/00/1909) Arrived 1938; Died 1971
0.1 Jill (00/00/1913) Arrived 1935; Died 1977
0.1 Sarina (00/00/1933) Arrived 1938; Died 1971
0.1 Gilda (00/00/1948) Arrived 1962; Transferred 1968
0.1 Ranee II (00/00/1955) Arrived 1962; Died 1998
0.1 Joan (00/00/1958) Arrived 1962; Died 1976
0.1 Helene (00/00/1958) Arrived 1962; Transferred 1968
0.1 Gigi (00/00/1958) Arrived 1962; Transferred 1968

As shown, three cows were sold to circuses in 1968 after a six year stay at Taronga Zoo.

One more arrived during Heman’s time at Taronga:

0.1 Burma (00/00/1959) Arrived 1982; Transferred 2005

Once again, I’m astounded how many elephants Taronga had at one time - five young females arrived in 1962 alone; with Heman arriving the following year. It should be noted that the zoo was under the direction of Sir Edward Hallstrom during this time, who personally financed the acquisition of many exciting imports.

That's incredibly interesting. I was aware Taronga had a large amount of elephants during their history, although not that much at one point. It would've been quite a sight, seeing a herd of 10 elephants, including elderly individuals and younger elephants. I wonder if they were all kept together or in different groups?

Gandhi, another male, was also there for almost 20 years and had plenty of opportunities to breed along the way, but he didn't. It's quite a possibility, that just like Bong Su, they didn't know how to bred as they'd been around humans from a very young age.

 

[Zoofan15]

That's incredibly interesting. I was aware Taronga had a large amount of elephants during their history, although not that much at one point. It would've been quite a sight, seeing a herd of 10 elephants, including elderly individuals and younger elephants. I wonder if they were all kept together or in different groups?

Gandhi, another male, was also there for almost 20 years and had plenty of opportunities to breed along the way, but he didn't. It's quite a possibility, that just like Bong Su, they didn't know how to bred as they'd been around humans from a very young age.

I honestly can’t get my head around all those elephants housed in that one elephant house! According to this map of Taronga Zoo from 1970, there was a second elephant exhibit near the ostrich and cassowary exhibits:


Photo credit: @steveroberts

I’m not sure if this was used to house Chori (the zoo’s African elephant) or was merely daytime housing for whatever elephant was on ride duty that day (as the exhibit was near the elephant walk). On that subject, I’m not sure if ride duty was rotated, but I remember Postcards from the Zoo mentioning Sarina doing rides.

@Ara noted Gandhi was housed at the elephant temple in a seperate yard from the females and while I had also assumed Gandhi was a behavioural non breeder (aside from the obvious lack of calves, he never taught Heman), @Ara believes he never got the chance to breed with the cows:

Gandhi led a restricted existence, being continuously chained by both front feet to another long chain. He was chained outside during the day, and inside the elephant house at night. It seemed a bit overdone to me, as he was behind both a moat AND a stong steel fence.(Thank heavens elephants are not chained up all day like that now.)

His was a fairly miserable, monastic existence. He was never used to attempt a mating, as far as I am aware and he could only touch trunks with the females in the next yard, being separated from them by the swimming pool and a short race about 2 metres wide.