Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2021
- Thread starter Zoofan15
- Start date
That’s correct. It’s similar to the relationship Bong Su had with his son, Ongard. They lived seperate but also spent time together.
They do appear to have a rather flexible life which is great for a bull. I’ve seen Man Jai by himself, with Luk Chai, and with the girls before.
Now following Luk Chai’s departure, Sabai is spending most of time with the female herd but also with Pathi Harn who seems to be fulfilling Luk Chai’s former role.
It’s rather interesting that Gung isn’t being used as the ‘mentor bull’ and they’ve had to go to using the younger bulls like Luk Chai and Pathi Harn.
Planning documents emphasise the formation of a multigenerational herd which will be an immense asset to the breeding programme.
Aside from being a vast improvement on the 20th Century pairs of elephants living in city zoos; this replication of the natural social structure will see cows living out their entire lives in matriarchal herds, learning from the experience of their relatives and in turn, passing it on to their offspring.
It’ll definitely become one of the best elephant complexes worldwide, if not the best.
Holding a multigenerational herd that will be able to breed freely is something most zoos cannot achieve due to space, and Werribee has taken the idea of an open range elephant complex to the next level.
In 50 years time they could have a massive herd of 30+ females; and that would be quite a sight to see.
This is likely because a large component of Gung’s early social development is unknown and potentially incomplete given that he came from Thailand. He arrived as a six year old and was immediately thrown into a makeshift herd of four other young elephants, including Thong Dee who was initially withdrawn and Porntip, who was then an inexperienced matriarch.
In contrast, Luk Chai and Pathi Harn have had a normal social upbringing in their matriarchal herd and are well adjusted young bulls, who role model the behaviours they want Sabai to absorb.
I agree with your comments but as for a very large herd of cow’s being kept there I would say it may depend on who is running the zoo at the time,lets not forget at least one ex director wanted to house all the newly imported elephants in the city zoo which was going to fail in the long term
Ultimately finances will be a deciding factor. 30 elephants would be no bigger drawcard to the average visitor than 20 elephants and they’d be unlikely to recoup the money spent on feeding the additional elephants.
A lot of thought has been given to succession planning - with decisions to be reviewed every 5-10 years. I can long term see a herd of around 20, with calves bred at least every five years to replace ageing herd members as they pass (not every calf will be female and contribute to the succession of the female herd).
The space (50 acres!) is definitely there for a large multi generational herd to be achieved.
I don’t really see them restricting the females to artificial gaps between their calves like Taronga. They’ll have 10 elephants when they arrive, and possibly an additional 4 if they receive the remaining animals from Perth and Taronga.
The best breeding herd I have ever seen was the Rockton herd in Canada there have housed muti bulls on site many acre’s to roam in woodland and their breeding record is second to none. I believe their herd is around the 15 animals these days and lots more calfs on the way I believe
The Rockton herd had one calf in 2020 and three calves in 2021. No cows are currently confirmed pregnant.
Rockton has had more second generation births than any other North American facility. Their calves are also noted for having an extremely high survival rate.
The herd at African Lion Safari has been incredibly successful with 20+ calves being born in the last 30 years. Their success is mainly attributed to the fact that they have had a high birth rate of females. In the last 20 years they have had 10 females from 13 surviving calves. This has meant that they have been able to continuously breed from their younger females and establish a multigenerational herd.
Originally they also started with two bulls, and so far the herd has been sustained with no bull imports since then, which is very impressive (although a new bull will probably be imported soon).
I can definitely see Werrribee building a herd much like the one at African Lion Safari, which keep in mind too, only began with four breeding females.
Yes they have an outstanding track record I do hope that Werribee does something similar. With the Rockton herd I believe they have had the same manager for most of the time my concern with the Werribee herd would be having a change in manager’s over time which might change the flow of how this herd could develop
Swanson02
Well-Known Member
I think the future of Australasia's Elephant program looks bright. From my previously stated chat with one of the keepers from Monarto a few months back, I gathered that the prospect of a future bull facility at Monarto has not only just been spitballed but may be seriously considered by Zoos SA (to the extent that at least one keeper was fully aware and enthusiastic regarding the possibility before I talked to him).
It makes me wonder if the idea was presented by Zoos Vic to Zoos SA as a theoretical 'spill-over' facility. For instance, if only 3-4 male calves were born at the new Werribee facility over the next 20 years, it would still leave the zoo with 6-7 adult bulls, (including Putra, Luk, and Man) likely a bit too many for the new facility no matter how big to manage. The only alternative I imagine would be to export internationally as no other zoo with copious space for a facility nationally has either the money to support elephants (Altina, Mogo), the room for more (TWPZ, Bungarribee), or the want for non-Sumatrans (Aus Zoo).
Obviously, this is ALOT of theorizing off very little evidence (one 15 minute discussion after the White Rhino keeper talk
), but all I can say is it doesn't hurt to ponder 
It makes me wonder if the idea was presented by Zoos Vic to Zoos SA as a theoretical 'spill-over' facility. For instance, if only 3-4 male calves were born at the new Werribee facility over the next 20 years, it would still leave the zoo with 6-7 adult bulls, (including Putra, Luk, and Man) likely a bit too many for the new facility no matter how big to manage. The only alternative I imagine would be to export internationally as no other zoo with copious space for a facility nationally has either the money to support elephants (Altina, Mogo), the room for more (TWPZ, Bungarribee), or the want for non-Sumatrans (Aus Zoo).
Obviously, this is ALOT of theorizing off very little evidence (one 15 minute discussion after the White Rhino keeper talk
), but all I can say is it doesn't hurt to ponder
I think the future of Australasia's Elephant program looks bright. From my previously stated chat with one of the keepers from Monarto a few months back, I gathered that the prospect of a future bull facility at Monarto has not only just been spitballed but may be seriously considered by Zoos SA (to the extent that at least one keeper was fully aware and enthusiastic regarding the possibility before I talked to him).
It makes me wonder if the idea was presented by Zoos Vic to Zoos SA as a theoretical 'spill-over' facility. For instance, if only 3-4 male calves were born at the new Werribee facility over the next 20 years, it would still leave the zoo with 6-7 adult bulls, (including Putra, Luk, and Man) likely a bit too many for the new facility no matter how big to manage. The only alternative I imagine would be to export internationally as no other zoo with copious space for a facility nationally has either the money to support elephants (Altina, Mogo), the room for more (TWPZ, Bungarribee), or the want for non-Sumatrans (Aus Zoo).
Obviously, this is ALOT of theorizing off very little evidence (one 15 minute discussion after the White Rhino keeper talk
It will be great to see the Werribee herd regularly breeding.
It’s interesting to note that with Mek Kapah post reproductive and Kulab unable to breed again, the Werribee herd will eventually descend from just two matriarchal lines - Dokoon and Num Oi.
Dokoon and Num Oi’s future sons will be of great value to the North America breeding programme as they’ll be unrelated to all other elephants; while Mali’s sons, though still valuable, will be the nephews of her half brother, Ongard.
Monarto could prove invaluable as a holding facility for bull calves born at Werribee, offering a contingency if they don’t get the string of female calves they’ll be hoping for.
A bachelor facility at Monarto would obviously be great for the region. I’m not sure whether Werribee is looking into holding a bachelor herd of males together, in the future, or more so a small group of males who just live separately. Anyhow, having Monarto as a secondary option would be valuable too. It could serve as the regions bachelor herd, which is something the region is going to need, especially if Werribee choses to allow their females to breed freely.
Werribee’s masterplan shows the following:
- One huge paddock (cows)
- One large barn/holding yard (cows)
- One small paddock (shared)
- One barn/holding yard (shared)
- One large paddock (bulls)
- Two barns/holding yards (bulls)
The shared paddock would be used for matings where they don’t want to run the bull with the whole herd. It could also accomodate one of the bulls as and when they needed to be separated (taking into account they’re not living together full time).
The current plans accommodate Luk Chai and Man Jai; but have little provision for holding additional bulls i.e. Putra Mas.
The current set up implies they’ll hold additional bulls in the short term (into early adolescence), before moving them on to other zoos; though it’s not out of the question to further divide the main paddock down the line if required.
Are they still planning on building the complex in two stages I hope if possible they complete the whole thing in one go considering how many babies might be born in the time frame
Yes that’s correct. The first stage was originally scheduled to be completed in December 2023, but in their latest press release they mentioned they’d be moving in the first half of 2024.
The cows/main herd will move first while the bulls will remain at Melbourne until the second phase is completed (within the year).
It’s no problem as Luk Chai won’t be needed for immediate breeding (the cows will all have dependent calves) and Man Jai will be well and truly independent of the female herd by this stage.
When I visited recently I was still told they would all be moved at the beginning of 2024 once the entire complex was finished. Although the moves will occur over the space of a few months. Similar to what Western Plains did when they split their herd back in 2015, but on a larger scale.
Apparently all of the calves are now due at the end of 2022, according to their website. This would mean that the calves would at least be a year old by the time of the move, which is appropriate for the move.