Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022

[Amberangel112]

Hi all

Thought I'd add a few bits of information about the PZ elephants as my first post on zoo chat.

Putra Mas, Teduh and Permai were introduced to Tricia as calves. She (and Keepers) practically raised them. Perth zoo is quite hands on with its elephants (my theory is that they couldn't just stop being hands on with Tricia who, like the others was bought to the zoo at a young age). This stopped to an extent when Putra Mas reached sexual maturity and he was separated from both Keepers and the female for space and safety reasons.

For a while the females and Putra Mas rotated exhibit times, while one lot was out the other was in the barn. This was until the new "females" exhibit was opened. This allowed all elephants to be on exhibit at once.

The female herd was meant to be 3 elephants with Tricia as the matriarch, unfortunately Teduh had to be ethunised in 2007 due to a muscular, skeletor disorder (possibly bone cancer) that caused anorexia.

If I remember correctly the female exhibit was designed so that there was room for calves, but as we know that didn't happen.

 

[ZCChip]

Any reason why Permai never had a calf?

 

[Zoofan15]

Welcome to ZooChat @Amberangel112 (I see this is your first post) and thanks for sharing your insight.

Perth Zoo did indeed intend to breed their elephants, though in my opinion the cow exhibit is too small for the two cows they currently have.

In 2005, Putra Mas and Permai naturally mated (believed to be the first natural mating in Australasia) and the zoo were hopeful she’d conceive, but sadly this never materialised:

During the year, Perth Zoo recorded the first known natural mating of elephants in an Australian zoo. The mating followed the carefully planned pairing of 16-year-old male Putra Mas and 16-year-old female Permai as part of the Zoo’s breeding program for the endangered Asian Elephant. The pairing was timed to coincide with Permai’s reproductive cycle. Subsequent blood analysis revealed that Permai was not pregnant.

AI was also trialled without success.

 

[Zoofan15]

Any reason why Permai never had a calf?

I found this explanation by @Crystal in 2009:

They had been having trouble with natural insemination as both the elephants had never seen a breeding before and when the bull went to mount, the female got scarred and he became a bit aggressive.

They have tried AI but as there are very few specialisists in the world who do this work and due to the fact that it's very difficult to determine exactally when the female will be in estrus it can be very expensive for them (I think the keeper said about $40,000 per try - They have tried three times the first time there were two follicles and they think that she may have aborted the pregnancy as elephants usually only have one baby, the second time the semen being produced by the elephants in Australia wasn't of good quality and the third they missed her cycle by two weeks).

So they are currently trying a new technique where they restrain the bull with a leg chain and introduce the female, allowing the male to mount using positive reinforcement to show them that its not a big deal so that when the time comes hopefully they will have better results.

 

[Zoofan15]

Perth zoo is quite hands on with its elephants (my theory is that they couldn't just stop being hands on with Tricia who, like the others was bought to the zoo at a young age). This stopped to an extent when Putra Mas reached sexual maturity and he was separated from both Keepers and the female for space and safety reasons.

Throughout the 20th century, it was the norm for zoos to have full contact with their female elephants. Bulls were seen as unmanageable due to their aggression (especially during musth cycles) and most zoos opted not to keep them for this reason.

Zoos continued to have direct contact with their elephants into the 21st century; which was only ceased at Taronga and Melbourne following the 2012 incident with Pathi Harn.

Auckland and Perth have decided to continue this practice with their cows; while Putra Mas was moved into protected contact as he entered adolescence. This was a common sense move to protect all those who worked with him.

The female herd was meant to be 3 elephants with Tricia as the matriarch, unfortunately Teduh had to be ethunised in 2007 due to a muscular, skeletor disorder (possibly bone cancer) that caused anorexia.

Teduh’s condition was muscular skeletal weakness. It made it difficult for her to lie down and get up and affected her coordination e.g. she had difficulties using her trunk.

 

[Jambo]

I found this explanation by @Crystal in 2009:

They had been having trouble with natural insemination as both the elephants had never seen a breeding before and when the bull went to mount, the female got scarred and he became a bit aggressive.

They have tried AI but as there are very few specialisists in the world who do this work and due to the fact that it's very difficult to determine exactally when the female will be in estrus it can be very expensive for them (I think the keeper said about $40,000 per try - They have tried three times the first time there were two follicles and they think that she may have aborted the pregnancy as elephants usually only have one baby, the second time the semen being produced by the elephants in Australia wasn't of good quality and the third they missed her cycle by two weeks).

So they are currently trying a new technique where they restrain the bull with a leg chain and introduce the female, allowing the male to mount using positive reinforcement to show them that its not a big deal so that when the time comes hopefully they will have better results.

It seems a lot of elephants back then didn’t now how to breed naturally as they had never been around a natural breeder. Bong Su at Melbourne didn’t know how to do the deed, and Heman at Taronga may have been the same as he was proved fertile later on in his life.

The sperm would’ve had to have came from Bong Su as the region didn’t have another bull at the time besides Gung, who was quite young at the time and not trained for it. Maybe the distance would’ve contributed to the sperm quality being poor as Bong Su successfully impregnated the new Thai girls soon after through AI.

 

[Zorro]

It seems a lot of elephants back then didn’t now how to breed naturally as they had never been around a natural breeder. Bong Su at Melbourne didn’t know how to do the deed, and Heman at Taronga may have been the same as he was proved fertile later on in his life.

The sperm would’ve had to have came from Bong Su as the region didn’t have another bull at the time besides Gung, who was quite young at the time and not trained for it. Maybe the distance would’ve contributed to the sperm quality being poor as Bong Su successfully impregnated the new Thai girls soon after through AI.

I believe Melbourne zoo/Werribee zoo herd will go from strength to strength now with the up coming new 50 acre elephant exhibit, also with input from some of the top elephant managers in the world. I am not so sure about Taronga's herd being split and wide gaps between calf’s,they could take note of the way Melbournes herd is going.

 

[Jambo]

I believe Melbourne zoo/Werribee zoo herd will go from strength to strength now with the up coming new 50 acre elephant exhibit, also with input from some of the top elephant managers in the world. I am not so sure about Taronga's herd being split and wide gaps between calf’s,they could take note of the way Melbournes herd is going.

After inspiration from top elephant complexes and carers from all over the world, Werribee is set to be one to watch.

Splitting Taronga’s herd was mainly to get Pathi Harn and Luk Chai to Dubbo where they could have more space and be managed under free contact. It would’ve made more sense though to move the entire herd but I guess Taronga wasn’t up for it at the time. Now with just two females remaining, one who should need to breed again, they will inevitably have to send them to Dubbo too.

 

[Zorro]

After inspiration from top elephant complexes and carers from all over the world, Werribee is set to be one to watch.

Splitting Taronga’s herd was mainly to get Pathi Harn and Luk Chai to Dubbo where they could have more space and be managed under free contact. It would’ve made more sense though to move the entire herd but I guess Taronga wasn’t up for it at the time. Now with just two females remaining, one who should need to breed again, they will inevitably have to send them to Dubbo too.

Quite right all moving to Dubbo would of been ideal but perhaps the attraction of having elephants at both zoos was the deciding factor

 

[Zoofan15]

Quite right all moving to Dubbo would of been ideal but perhaps the attraction of having elephants at both zoos was the deciding factor

I think if it wasn’t for Sydney Zoo (direct competition), they would have followed suit with the other main zoos (Auckland, Melbourne and Perth) in phasing out their elephants.

Having no bull on site complicates the process of breeding Pak Boon (not to mention the cost) and given both her calves have died and Tang Mo is non reproductive, there’s limited potential for succession in this herd. It’d be better for all elephants involved to reintegrate these cows with the Dubbo herd they were split from.

 

[Jambo]

I think if it wasn’t for Sydney Zoo (direct competition), they would have followed suit with the other main zoos (Auckland, Melbourne and Perth) in phasing out their elephants.

Having no bull on site complicates the process of breeding Pak Boon (not to mention the cost) and given both her calves have died and Tang Mo is non reproductive, there’s limited potential for succession in this herd. It’d be better for all elephants involved to reintegrate these cows with the Dubbo herd they were split from.

It would certainly have been much easier if Taronga moved the whole herd initially back in 2015. The most logical option now, is of course to send them to Dubbo but Taronga appear to be unwilling to do this as like you said, it would give the Sydney Zoo a point of difference.

Gung has been continuing AI training at Dubbo (presumably to impregnate Pak Boon back at Taronga), but the expenses alongside Covid-19 have postponed any hope of Pak Boon having a calf anytime soon. I think it’s a good thing though as it has bought them time to think about sending them to Dubbo, without having to wait extra years for a calf to be born and grow up.

Pak Boon is close friends with Porntip and so is Tang Mo with Thong Dee so it’d be nice reunion for all of the cows. It’d also give Pak Boon the opportunity to breed naturally with Gung again.

 

[Zorro]

It would certainly have been much easier if Taronga moved the whole herd initially back in 2015. The most logical option now, is of course to send them to Dubbo but Taronga appear to be unwilling to do this as like you said, it would give the Sydney Zoo a point of difference.

Gung has been continuing AI training at Dubbo (presumably to impregnate Pak Boon back at Taronga), but the expenses alongside Covid-19 have postponed any hope of Pak Boon having a calf anytime soon. I think it’s a good thing though as it has bought them time to think about sending them to Dubbo, without having to wait extra years for a calf to be born and grow up.

Pak Boon is close friends with Porntip and so is Tang Mo with Thong Dee so it’d be nice reunion for all of the cows. It’d also give Pak Boon the opportunity to breed naturally with Gung again.

Considering the cost and difficulty with importing elephants into the region the breeding side of things I believe should take first priority over everything else, I can see Tarongas herd falling behind the Melbourne herd in numbers and progress

 

[Zoofan15]

It would certainly have been much easier if Taronga moved the whole herd initially back in 2015. The most logical option now, is of course to send them to Dubbo but Taronga appear to be unwilling to do this as like you said, it would give the Sydney Zoo a point of difference.

Gung has been continuing AI training at Dubbo (presumably to impregnate Pak Boon back at Taronga), but the expenses alongside Covid-19 have postponed any hope of Pak Boon having a calf anytime soon. I think it’s a good thing though as it has bought them time to think about sending them to Dubbo, without having to wait extra years for a calf to be born and grow up.

Pak Boon is close friends with Porntip and so is Tang Mo with Thong Dee so it’d be nice reunion for all of the cows. It’d also give Pak Boon the opportunity to breed naturally with Gung again.

Another reason for the delay in transfer could be the threat of EEHV. To lose any calf would be a tragedy, but to lose Kanlaya (2018) would be catastrophic to the succession plan for Taronga’s herd.

Whether Pak Boon and/or Tang Mo are carriers of EEHV is unknown - but what is known is a calf has contracted EEHV in their herd; while the Dubbo herd has two calves survive to adulthood; a third come the critical weaning period; and no deaths. Perhaps they’re not wanting to take any undue risks on that score.

Waiting another 3-5 years would see Kanlaya out of the high risk age for contracting EEHV and give Taronga time to evaluate whether they want to phase out their elephants.

 

[Swanson02]

Another reason for the delay in transfer could be the threat of EEHV. To lose any calf would be a tragedy, but to lose Kanlaya (2018) would be catastrophic to the succession plan for Taronga’s herd.

Wait do we know if Anjalee is an EEHV carrier? As she is transferring to TWPZ in a few months and will form a new herd unit with the other cows including young Kanlaya.

Also apparently Australia Zoo and TWPZ have sent no keepers to Auckland to study the cows before the transfer. All keeper and obviously elephant introductions will only occur once they reach Australia with two Auckland Zoo staff each. Is that unusual at all? I would have thought at least one or two Aussie keepers would have spent some time in Auckland, with the girls forming a rapport before the big move?

 

[Zoofan15]

Wait do we know if Anjalee is an EEHV carrier? As she is transferring to TWPZ in a few months and will form a new herd unit with the other cows including young Kanlaya.

Also apparently Australia Zoo and TWPZ have sent no keepers to Auckland to study the cows before the transfer. All keeper and obviously elephant introductions will only occur once they reach Australia with two Auckland Zoo staff each. Is that unusual at all? I would have thought at least one or two Aussie keepers would have spent some time in Auckland, with the girls forming a rapport before the big move?

I’ve looked it up and apparently there’s a way to test if elephants are carriers of EEHV. Enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) is an immunological assay commonly used to measure antibodies, antigens, proteins and glycoproteins in biological samples.

I’d imagine Anjalee was confirmed as a non carrier prior to the decision to send her to Dubbo. The test is expensive, but fully justified if it’ll protect the health of the Dubbo herd - especially Kanlaya.

Ideally keepers from the Australian zoos would have spent time with the elephants prior to export, but the Covid restrictions mean this hasn’t been practical. With no clear indication on when the borders will reopen, Auckland zoo has had to make a decision on whether to delay the transfer further or proceed with limited staff.

 

[Jambo]

I’ve looked it up and apparently there’s a way to test if elephants are carriers of EEHV. Enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) is an immunological assay commonly used to measure antibodies, antigens, proteins and glycoproteins in biological samples.

I’d imagine Anjalee was confirmed as a non carrier prior to the decision to send her to Dubbo. The test is expensive, but fully justified if it’ll protect the health of the Dubbo herd - especially Kanlaya.

Ideally keepers from the Australian zoos would have spent time with the elephants prior to export, but the Covid restrictions mean this hasn’t been practical. With no clear indication on when the borders will reopen, Auckland zoo has had to make a decision on whether to delay the transfer further or proceed with limited staff.

To be honest I’d have doubted Auckland would’ve tested Anjalee for carrying EEHV. They can test the elephants for carrying it but they are extremely expensive and would need to be supplied and conducted by experts.

The Smithsonian website states that it’s possible that most if not all elephants carry a certain strain (there are multiple). The virus is sometimes dormant within the elephant before it can unexpectedly become active. Some elephants are also affected worse by the virus when it becomes active, compared to others. It may be genetics or the type of strain but they haven’t found a specific answer yet.

 

[Zoofan15]

To be honest I’d have doubted Auckland would’ve tested Anjalee for carrying EEHV. They can test the elephants for carrying it but they are extremely expensive and would need to be supplied and conducted by experts.

The Smithsonian website states that it’s possible that most if not all elephants carry a certain strain (there are multiple). The virus is sometimes dormant within the elephant before it can unexpectedly become active. Some elephants are also affected worse by the virus when it becomes active, compared to others. It may be genetics or the type of strain but they haven’t found a specific answer yet.

Although the test would identify dormant strains of the virus (and even previous exposure), a study on European zoos did indeed confirm that most captive elephants carry EEHV and that those most susceptible of dying from it are those with low antibody levels.

The most practical thing they can do is maintain vigilance through carrying out PCR on whole blood samples. European guidelines recommend this test is done weekly; however Australian zoos are a little behind, having only started work on a testing regime in 2018 according to Taronga’s annual report:

Until now, a test for EEHV was not available in Australia. In collaboration with Zoos Victoria and The University of Sydney, Taronga has established EEHV testing capacity to screen Australia’s Asian Elephant herds. The priority is to condition all elephants for the newly established testing in conjunction with an overall management and care plan.

It’s a shame this wasn’t developed in time to identify the virus in Tukta, though it will hopefully assist in the protection of calves to come.

 

[Zoofan15]

Sydney Zoo’s Bulls

This video has been shared by Sydney Zoo of their two young bulls:

Sydney Zoo’s Ashoka and Kavi Elephants Spotted Having a Little Cuddle

It’s sure nice to see young bulls with tusks - something which is becoming less common in the region.

The keeper made a comment that eventually the bulls will contribute to the Australasian breeding programme. This suggests that Sydney Zoo are at least open to the idea - despite being the lack of support they received from Taronga in acquiring elephants.

Assuming this isn’t a throwaway comment, these bulls will prove invaluable as we exhaust founder lines. The earliest this could occur is if Mali (Bong Su’s line) produces a female calf with Luk Chai (Gung’s line), which then in turn breeds with Putra Mas to produce a female calf.

We’re therefore still a couple of decades away from needing their input, but it’d nice to know this may be an option - especially with Werribee aiming to expand their herd into the 20’s.

 

[Jambo]

Sydney Zoo’s Bulls

This video has been shared by Sydney Zoo of their two young bulls:

Sydney Zoo’s Ashoka and Kavi Elephants Spotted Having a Little Cuddle

It’s sure nice to see young bulls with tusks - something which is becoming less common in the region.

The keeper made a comment that eventually the bulls will contribute to the Australasian breeding programme. This suggests that Sydney Zoo are at least open to the idea - despite being the lack of support they received from Taronga in acquiring elephants.

Assuming this isn’t a throwaway comment, these bulls will prove invaluable as we exhaust founder lines. The earliest this could occur is if Mali (Bong Su’s line) produces a female calf with Luk Chai (Gung’s line), which then in turn breeds with Putra Mas to produce a female calf.

We’re therefore still a couple of decades away from needing their input, but it’d nice to know this may be an option - especially with Werribee aiming to expand their herd into the 20’s.

I can see Werribee and Dubbo making use of both males into the future.

The best option for Sydney going into the future would be using them as a smaller bachelor facility for the regional breeding program. This would work best with the limited space they have.

 

[Zoofan15]

I can see Werribee and Dubbo making use of both males into the future.

The best option for Sydney going into the future would be using them as a smaller bachelor facility for the regional breeding program. This would work best with the limited space they have.

If Taronga Zoo are hell bent on retaining their elephants, training the Sydney bulls for AI would make undertaking AI at Taronga Zoo a breeze compared to the logistics of working with bulls from their Dubbo site (which is several hours away).

Alternatively, if Sydney Zoo (and Taronga Zoo) were to operate as a bachelor facilities, they could work to sub bulls in and out of the Dubbo breeding herd as required, optimising the potential for the breeding programme.