Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022

[Zoofan15]

I certainly agree. The main focus at Dubbo will be to first, successfully integrate Anjalee to their herd, and then begin introductions with Gung. Keep in mind, this whole process could take a few months.

Due to space restrictions though, I’m not sure Dubbo will be looking to breed Thong Dee and then Anjalee again. If everything goes smoothly, I see no reason why they shouldn’t breed all three females (Porntip, Thong Dee and Anjalee) all around the same time (late 2022). By then, Thong Dee would’ve had an almost eight year age gap, and I don’t think it would be beneficial holding off any longer than that.

Anjalee’s full assimilation into the herd could take two years. However, the initial stage of where she’s tolerated to the extent there’s no physical conflict between the elephants would (normally) be much quicker. I’d imagine they’re aiming for that at least before complicating intros with pregnancy hormones. The positive is that elephants are so individual in their personalities, that a larger pool of elephants (in this case two adult females and their calves) means there’ll be at least one elephant she’ll click with early on.

Yes, breeding from the three females (Porntip, Thong Dee and Anjalee) at the same time would make more sense from a management perspective. It would also mean the herd was more geared towards focussing on newborn calves versus three year old juveniles running amok amongst the next cohort of calves. Having Sabai around the newborn Kanlaya wasn’t without it’s challenges for several months.

 

[Jambo]

The Werribee complex will provide the opportunity to really maximise the breeding potential of these elephants - something which hasn’t been fully achieved to date. While we currently have abundant breeding cows (founders at that), it’s so important the breeding programme focuses on succession to ensure we retain a decent cohort of reproductive age animals as the founders age. Werribee plan to do this by creating a succession plan ten years and reviewing it every five.

Heading into the future, a large scale bachelor facility at Monarto would be invaluable. With no cows housed on site, a cohesive bachelor herd could be feasible and provide an essential service to the region. An alternative contingency could be to export them overseas - with zoos in the USA surely eager to import some of our bulls here and there.

It will be great to get a view of their succession plan once the elephants arrive at Werribee. With three breading cows at the moment and a decent sized herd already, it’ll be a great start for what is to become one of the leading elephant complexes in the world.

The USA are definitely in need of some new genetics, so would be very happy to pick up some of our surplus bulls.

 

[Zorro]

The Werribee complex will provide the opportunity to really maximise the breeding potential of these elephants - something which hasn’t been fully achieved to date. While we currently have abundant breeding cows (founders at that), it’s so important the breeding programme focuses on succession to ensure we retain a decent cohort of reproductive age animals as the founders age. Werribee plan to do this by creating a succession plan ten years and reviewing it every five.

Heading into the future, a large scale bachelor facility at Monarto would be invaluable. With no cows housed on site, a cohesive bachelor herd could be feasible and provide an essential service to the region. An alternative contingency could be to export them overseas - with zoos in the USA surely eager to import some of our bulls here and there.

I agree Monarto could play a good role in the overall plan with the Asian elephant, I believe the original plan was to import 6 female African elephants and no bulls. I know the overall view there is geared towards an African theme but that aside it could be well utilised by becoming involved in the current program

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree Monarto could play a good role in the overall plan with the Asian elephant, I believe the original plan was to import 6 female African elephants and no bulls. I know the overall view there is geared towards an African theme but that aside it could be well utilised by becoming involved in the current program

As much as I’d love to see African elephants return to the region, they’re more challenging to breed and difficult to handle. Overall, it makes more sense for everyone to collaborate on the same species - especially with Australasia having only a handful of holders going into the future.

 

[Jambo]

Anjalee’s full assimilation into the herd could take two years. However, the initial stage of where she’s tolerated to the extent there’s no physical conflict between the elephants would (normally) be much quicker. I’d imagine they’re aiming for that at least before complicating intros with pregnancy hormones. The positive is that elephants are so individual in their personalities, that a larger pool of elephants (in this case two adult females and their calves) means there’ll be at least one elephant she’ll click with early on.

Yes, breeding from the three females (Porntip, Thong Dee and Anjalee) at the same time would make more sense from a management perspective. It would also mean the herd was more geared towards focussing on newborn calves versus three year old juveniles running amok amongst the next cohort of calves. Having Sabai around the newborn Kanlaya wasn’t without it’s challenges for several months.

Porntip is apparently a rather feisty female who likes to get her own way. Thong Dee, on the other hand, is much more relaxed and calm, though can be quite apprehensive around new things. Either way both females are quite interactive and friendly individuals, so I don’t see any issues presenting. Anjalee is an especially playful elephant so it’ll be great for her to finally get calves to play with.

Dubbo will be aiming to breed all three girls in 2023, with calves expected in 2025. From then on, I can see Dubbo breeding their elephants with artificial intervals of up to 6 years at a time. By the next rotation (which should be say 2031; Kanlaya should be ready to breed too.

 

[Zoofan15]

It will be great to get a view of their succession plan once the elephants arrive at Werribee. With three breading cows at the moment and a decent sized herd already, it’ll be a great start for what is to become one of the leading elephant complexes in the world.

The USA are definitely in need of some new genetics, so would be very happy to pick up some of our surplus bulls.

The interesting thing about the Werribee herd is long term, when the founders pass on, the herd will be descended from just two cows. I imagine any succession plan will initially focus on levelling the playing field between from a Dokkoon dominated herd to including Num-Oi’s line. Ideally this will be achieved by her having a female calf sooner rather than later to establish her matriarchal line.

 

[Zoofan15]

Porntip is apparently a rather feisty female who likes to get her own way. Thong Dee, on the other hand, is much more relaxed and calm, though can be quite apprehensive around new things. Either way both females are quite interactive and friendly individuals, so I don’t see any issues presenting. Anjalee is an especially playful elephant so it’ll be great for her to finally get calves to play with.

Dubbo will be aiming to breed all three girls in 2023, with calves expected in 2025. From then on, I can see Dubbo breeding their elephants with artificial intervals of up to 6 years at a time. By the next rotation (which should be say 2031; Kanlaya should be ready to breed too.

The introduction of Anjalee should hopefully be simple in that she’s younger than the two Dubbo females and having lived as Burma’s subordinate, should easily shift into the same role within Taronga’s herd. Anjalee is highly enthusiastic and playful. I imagine she’ll form a strong bond with Kanlaya, who will be almost four by the time Anjalee arrives.

Auckland Zoo took great care to find a match to Burma’s friendly and playful personality - and they indeed found it in Anjalee, though the middle aged cow has found her constant demands to play exhausting due to her age. Anjalee was the companion Burma needed 20 years ago!

 

[Zorro]

If Monarto came on board with the elephant program I can see these 3 largest open range zoos becoming the central hub also for hippo’s and rhino’s for the whole region

 

[Zoofan15]

If Monarto came on board with the elephant program I can see these 3 largest open range zoos becoming the central hub also for hippo’s and rhino’s for the whole region

Orana Wildlife Park also has a large rhino facility in the works:

Orana Wildlife Park will construct a $1.4M White Rhino Conservation Centre that will house and breed more rhinos in Christchurch and quarantine (for up to 1 year) all animals from Africa destined for our Australian partners. Some rhinos from each import will remain at Orana to build the genetic diversity of our herd.

It’s exciting to see a commitment to the long standing Southern white rhinoceros breeding programme in the region.

 

[Zorro]

Orana Wildlife Park also has a large rhino facility in the works:

Orana Wildlife Park will construct a $1.4M White Rhino Conservation Centre that will house and breed more rhinos in Christchurch and quarantine (for up to 1 year) all animals from Africa destined for our Australian partners. Some rhinos from each import will remain at Orana to build the genetic diversity of our herd.

It’s exciting to see a commitment to the long standing Southern white rhinoceros breeding programme in the region.

Correct, but I was referring to the BIG three meaning Hippos ,elephants and rhino which can be kept in bigger numbers under open range conditions and should under ideal condition’s produce more calf’s.

 

[Zoofan15]

Correct, but I was referring to the BIG three meaning Hippos ,elephants and rhino which can be kept in bigger numbers under open range conditions and should under ideal condition’s produce more calf’s.

I’m especially excited to see what Monarto can do with hippos. It’d be great to see a decent sized pod of six or more hippos. This could easily be achieved with a single cow (and bull kept seperate) using the separation of the mother and newborn method, followed by reintroduction to her daughters.

This has been successful at Dubbo, with Cuddles and her three offspring forming a cohesive pod; as well as at Werribee with Primrose and her two daughters.

Though trickier, it could also be done with unrelated cows depending on the animals involved.

 

[Jambo]

Correct, but I was referring to the BIG three meaning Hippos ,elephants and rhino which can be kept in bigger numbers under open range conditions and should under ideal condition’s produce more calf’s.

Werribee could compete with their upcoming elephant complex, and Rhino breeding facility. Adding this to their already world class hippo enclosure would create a real impression.

 

[Swanson02]

If Monarto came on board with the elephant program I can see these 3 largest open range zoos becoming the central hub also for hippo’s and rhino’s for the whole region

I think Monarto will likely be the next holder of elephants in the region as currently no other zoo in Australasia really has both the finances and space to accommodate them. Monarto has already held an elephant too, Samorn (South Australia's last elephant) in what is now the Black Rhino exhibit for a couple of years in the 90s before she passed.

Saying this though, elephants (likely a young bachelor herd) returning to Monarto is a long way off, I would think at least 20 years, which would coincide well with Werribee and TWPZ starting to feel the overpopulation crunch. Otherwise, Orana is the only other zoo I could potentially see gaining elephants but that would be even further into the future. It's a shame that Perth and Auckland never got open range sister zoos up and running like Taronga, Melbourne and Adelaide did back in the 70s and 80s. (Anyone know why?)

Also, what is the protocol for the unlikely but possible chance that the next 4-5 claves born in Australia are majority if not all male? I know we all would prefer a string of girls to help form those large multi-generational herds

 

[Zoofan15]

Otherwise, Orana is the only other zoo I could potentially see gaining elephants but that would be even further into the future. It's a shame that Perth and Auckland never got open range sister zoos up and running like Taronga, Melbourne and Adelaide did back in the 70s and 80s. (Anyone know why?)

Open range zoos:

Sadly, I don’t think Orana Wildlife Park will ever be in the position financially to house elephants. Unlike the other main zoos in New Zealand, they’re not government owned and operated. 90% of its income comes from gate takings.

An open range zoo has been proposed for Auckland Zoo since the 1970’s as a site to house their larger mammals. Unfortunately it’s never been approved by the council. They had enough trouble trying to get approval for the $13.5 million required to found a breeding herd of elephants.

An open range zoo for Perth is frequently mentioned. A site has even been identified. While no funding has been allocated yet (and the zoo state in their website FAQs they have no plans to build one), it may happen in the future. It’d be of great benefit to the zoo: New open-range zoo will allow Perth zoo to expand captive breeding

 

[Zoofan15]

Also, what is the protocol for the unlikely but possible chance that the next 4-5 claves born in Australia are majority if not all male? I know we all would prefer a string of girls to help form those large multi-generational herds

Werribee’s bulls:

The plans for Werribee’s new complex detail two large exhibits - one for the bulls and one for the cows; as well as a smaller holding yard - that could be used for breeding introductions or to hold elephants on a short term basis. This will serve the zoo in the short term by managing Luk Chai and Man Jai separately and as a bachelor pair.

Long term, if the three Melbourne calves are male, they would be housed together as a trio. In an ideal world, they’d integrate into a bachelor herd with Luk Chai and Man Jai; but due to their proximity to the female herd, this may not be feasible. The bull paddock could easily be subdivided in this event, which would provide a solution until placements for these maturing bulls were found - they’ll be in high demand in the USA.

Taronga’s bulls:

If Taronga Western Plains Zoo have two (or even three) male calves from their next cohort, they’d eventually be run as a fourth herd - alongside the breeding bull, the female herd and the current adolescent bulls. As with Werribee, it may be possible to integrate them full time with Pathi Harn and Sabai; but the zoo has a contingency in place to manage a fourth herd if not.

Long term, I wouldn’t be surprised if the cows at Taronga are swapped for the adolescent bulls at Dubbo, which would free up even more space as the cows rejoin the female herd.

 

[Hyak_II]

As much as I’d love to see African elephants return to the region, they’re more challenging to breed and difficult to handle. Overall, it makes more sense for everyone to collaborate on the same species - especially with Australasia having only a handful of holders going into the future.

Meh, assuming you start off with animals that were raised in a cohesive social environment, they’re no less challenging than asians in terms of breeding or herd management in a modern PC setting, and if anything easier due to the much, much lower risk of EEHV issues with calves.

That said though, I do agree, it doesn’t make much sense for Australia to focus on two separate species, due to the aforementioned limited amount of holders available.

 

[Jambo]

Open range zoos:

Sadly, I don’t think Orana Wildlife Park will ever be in the position financially to house elephants. Unlike the other main zoos in New Zealand, they’re not government owned and operated. 90% of its income comes from gate takings.

An open range zoo has been proposed for Auckland Zoo since the 1970’s as a site to house their larger mammals. Unfortunately it’s never been approved by the council. They had enough trouble trying to get approval for the $13.5 million required to found a breeding herd of elephants.

An open range zoo for Perth is frequently mentioned. A site has even been identified. While no funding has been allocated yet (and the zoo state in their website FAQs they have no plans to build one), it may happen in the future. It’d be of great benefit to the zoo: New open-range zoo will allow Perth zoo to expand captive breeding

Auckland was the only chance for housing elephants in New Zealand, and now that they’ve got rid of them, it’s unlikely there will be elephants in NZ ever again.

Most problems zoos experience trying to open open range sister zoos really revolves around funding. If the government sees no major income coming from the zoo, than they wouldn’t invest. In the case of Werribee, it was originally a hoof stock holding site for Melbourne but was then turned into an open range zoo. It’s located half an hour from the city, so it generates a fair amount of income.

 

[Zoofan15]

It doesn’t make much sense for Australia to focus on two separate species, due to the aforementioned limited amount of holders available.

If Monarto Zoo imported African elephants, they’d be on their own as the two newest holders (Sydney Zoo and Australia Zoo) have just imported Asian elephants.

Australia Zoo are currently running independently in that they’ve stated it’s their intention to import Sumatran bulls and maintain a purebred herd of this subspecies - but they at least have the option to deviate to Indian-Sumatran hybrids given that Asian elephants aren’t officially managed on a subspecies level in Australasia and there’s many Indian bulls available.

 

[Jambo]

The plans for Werribee’s new complex detail two large exhibits - one for the bulls and one for the cows; as well as a smaller holding yard - that could be used for breeding introductions or to hold elephants on a short term basis. This will serve the zoo in the short term by managing Luk Chai and Man Jai separately and as a bachelor pair.

Long term, if the three Melbourne calves are male, they would be housed together as a trio. In an ideal world, they’d integrate into a bachelor herd with Luk Chai and Man Jai; but due to their proximity to the female herd, this may not be feasible. The bull paddock could easily be subdivided in this event, which would provide a solution until placements for these maturing bulls were found - they’ll be in high demand in the USA.

Werribee could make it work by holding three different groups at Werribee; Luk Chai (as the breeding male), younger bulls (including Man Jai), and then the cow herd.

Bachelor groups can hold six+ males, so Werribee wouldn’t have much of a problem even if their next lot of calves are all male. Although the US would be happy to take some of our bulls; they wouldn’t take all of them. In this case, a secondary bachelor facility will be needed in around 20-30 years time, and Monarto should be able to fulfil this.

 

[Zoofan15]

Werribee could make it work by holding three different groups at Werribee; Luk Chai (as the breeding male), younger bulls (including Man Jai), and then the cow herd.

Bachelor groups can hold six+ males, so Werribee wouldn’t have much of a problem even if their next lot of calves are all male. Although the US would be happy to take some of our bulls; they wouldn’t take all of them. In this case, a secondary bachelor facility will be needed in around 20-30 years time, and Monarto should be able to fulfil this.

Man Jai is in an awkward position as he’ll be close to a decade older than the next cohort of calves. Since he has little value at Werribee (he’s directly related to 2/3 breeding cows), I’d be in favour of sending him to Taronga Western Plains Zoo to integrate with Pathi Harn and Sabai - with the view of two or three of them transferring to Taronga Zoo - the third could be exported if Taronga didn’t feel they had the room or management issues arose.

Though Werribee will initially have space to manage the bulls it has, a cohort of bulls born over the next five years ago will form a more cohesive bachelor herd long term. Man Jai’s value to this would be of that of a mentor, but there’s no reason Luk Chai (a well socialised bull) couldn’t fulfil this role as he’s currently doing to Man Jai.