Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022

[Zoofan15]

Update on Anjalee:

Aust Zoo backflip strands elephant in NZ

As reported in this article, Anjalee is settling in well at Taronga Western Plains Zoo.

Introductions have begun, with Anjalee striking up a friendship with their juvenile female, Kanlaya.

Following her successful integration into the female herd, they’ll look at breeding Anjalee with one of the bulls. My guess is Pathi Harn given Gung’s continuing representation through his son at Werribee.

Dubbo not taking Burma:

According to the same article, Dubbo will not be taking Burma; nor will Australia Zoo be reconsidered if their situation changes.

It’s not unreasonable to assume Taronga has been ruled out (as they will likely merge cows with the Dubbo herd); and therefore Sydney Zoo is the most likely option within the region for taking Burma.

Sydney Zoo could potentially receive both Burma and Permai as their respective zoos look to phase out elephants.

 

[Zoofan15]

Summary of Burma’s Export Options

Australasia:

There are currently six other holders in Australasia:

Australia Zoo - Discounted (confirmed)
Taronga Western Plains Zoo - Discounted (confirmed)
Melbourne Zoo - Discounted due to phase out, space limitations
Perth Zoo - Discounted due to phase out, space limitations
Taronga Zoo - Discounted due to likely merge with Dubbo (unconfirmed)
Sydney Zoo - Most likely option within region at present time

Sydney Zoo may be reluctant to take on Burma (and Permai) as their bulls mature and need to be housed separately. One solution would be to transfer one of bulls to Taronga Zoo (plus Sabai); and transfer the Taronga cows to Dubbo. This would be a logical and mutually beneficial scenario to all zoos involved, but one that would need a lot of discussion.

Another point to consider is Werribee Open Range Zoo. They won’t have elephants on site by 2024, but considering Auckland Zoo are looking at an estimated two year wait to export Burma to the USA, this would still be preferable. The complicating factor here would be Werribee’s reluctance to add an unrelated post reproductive female to a cohesive breeding herd that has to date remained free of EEHV.

Outside the Region:

Europe is an unlikely destination due to their thriving breeding programmes producing several surplus females. Breeding females are being exported to North America due to overcrowding.

North America has facilities such as San Diego with a history of taking in older females such as Burma. Considering they’d be doing them a favour, Auckland Zoo would be expected to cover the bulk of the costs. It would also take around two years to arrange.

Asia has a few facilities that may be open to receiving Burma e.g. Singapore Zoo, though like with other options outside the region, Auckland Zoo would be expected to cover the costs as Burma would do little to enhance their collection and the logistics would be time consuming to arrange.

 

[Zorro]

Summary of Burma’s Export Options

Australasia:

There are currently six other holders in Australasia:

Australia Zoo - Discounted (confirmed)
Taronga Western Plains Zoo - Discounted (confirmed)
Melbourne Zoo - Discounted due to phase out, space limitations
Perth Zoo - Discounted due to phase out, space limitations
Taronga Zoo - Discounted due to likely merge with Dubbo (unconfirmed)
Sydney Zoo - Most likely option within region at present time

Sydney Zoo may be reluctant to take on Burma (and Permai) as their bulls mature and need to be housed separately. One solution would be to transfer one of bulls to Taronga Zoo (plus Sabai); and transfer the Taronga cows to Dubbo. This would be a logical and mutually beneficial scenario to all zoos involved, but one that would need a lot of discussion.

Another point to consider is Werribee Open Range Zoo. They won’t have elephants on site by 2024, but considering Auckland Zoo are looking at an estimated two year wait to export Burma to the USA, this would still be preferable. The complicating factor here would be Werribee’s reluctance to add an unrelated post reproductive female to a cohesive breeding herd that has to date remained free of EEHV.

Outside the Region:

Europe is an unlikely destination due to their thriving breeding programmes producing several surplus females. Breeding females are being exported to North America due to overcrowding.

North America has facilities such as San Diego with a history of taking in older females such as Burma. Considering they’d be doing them a favour, Auckland Zoo would be expected to cover the bulk of the costs. It would also take around two years to arrange.

Asia has a few facilities that may be open to receiving Burma e.g. Singapore Zoo, though like with other options outside the region, Auckland Zoo would be expected to cover the costs as Burma would do little to enhance their collection and the logistics would be time consuming to arrange.

Since you have mentioned that European zoos do have surplus females it makes one wonder why AZ imported Sumatran elephants when they could of obtained zoo bred animals and become part of the the region’s breeding program

 

[Zoofan15]

Since you have mentioned that European zoos do have surplus females it makes one wonder why AZ imported Sumatran elephants when they could of obtained zoo bred animals and become part of the the region’s breeding program

Good point. Australia Zoo could also have created a herd from surplus founder cows (including post reproductive cows) within the region - many of which would be suitable as contact animals (a desirable trait of the Indonesian imports).

Australia Zoo could have taken in Burma and Permai as a starting point; and then Pak Boon and Tang Mo from Taronga. Taronga would benefit from this as they have more cows than they know what to do with and their focus is on succession breeding at Dubbo.

Australia Zoo would still have the option to breed via Pak Boon - either through AI or acquiring a surplus bull (also readily available).

In hindsight, this would have solved the problems of at least four zoos!

 

[Swanson02]

Summary of Burma’s Export Options

Australasia:

There are currently six other holders in Australasia:

Australia Zoo - Discounted (confirmed)
Taronga Western Plains Zoo - Discounted (confirmed)
Melbourne Zoo - Discounted due to phase out, space limitations
Perth Zoo - Discounted due to phase out, space limitations
Taronga Zoo - Discounted due to likely merge with Dubbo (unconfirmed)
Sydney Zoo - Most likely option within region at present time

I do agree with the sentiment that Burma will likely end up in Australia rather than further abroad. Not just because of the smaller costs, but also because two years alone in Auckland would cause a fair bit of public uproar and we are already starting to see the animal rights groups crawl out of the woodwork.

Just an idea but how strapped for space is Perth Zoo? I understand like Melbourne (who are almost over capacity) they have announced a phase-out. But Sydney's second enclosure seems rather small to me and we are only 5-6 years away from Kavi and Ashoka potentially needing to be housed separately. I understand it would require a second move down the track most likely to Werribee but spending a few years (potentially more than a few depending on how long Tricia lasts) in Perth forming a bond with Tricia and more importantly, Permai (a cow in a similar stage to Burma) would be good for Burma. That way she and Permai will have a known companion each when they move to Werribee.

This is just a thought experiment so please don't tear it apart. It is a quick and non-permanent fix to our current situation and Sydney Zoo unless they expand, appears to me to be a quick fix too. Also a cow her own age is worth much more socially to Burma than two energetic young bulls. She was already pushed by Anjalee's antics, Kavi and Ashoka would drive her up the wall!

 

[Zorro]

I do agree with the sentiment that Burma will likely end up in Australia rather than further abroad. Not just because of the smaller costs, but also because two years alone in Auckland would cause a fair bit of public uproar and we are already starting to see the animal rights groups crawl out of the woodwork.

Just an idea but how strapped for space is Perth Zoo? I understand like Melbourne (who are almost over capacity) they have announced a phase-out. But Sydney's second enclosure seems rather small to me and we are only 5-6 years away from Kavi and Ashoka potentially needing to be housed separately. I understand it would require a second move down the track most likely to Werribee but spending a few years (potentially more than a few depending on how long Tricia lasts) in Perth forming a bond with Tricia and more importantly, Permai (a cow in a similar stage to Burma) would be good for Burma. That way she and Permai will have a known companion each when they move to Werribee.

This is just a thought experiment so please don't tear it apart. It is a quick and non-permanent fix to our current situation and Sydney Zoo unless they expand, appears to me to be a quick fix too. Also a cow her own age is worth much more socially to Burma than two energetic young bulls. She was already pushed by Anjalee's antics, Kavi and Ashoka would drive her up the wall!

Thats worth considering bro

 

[Zoofan15]

I do agree with the sentiment that Burma will likely end up in Australia rather than further abroad. Not just because of the smaller costs, but also because two years alone in Auckland would cause a fair bit of public uproar and we are already starting to see the animal rights groups crawl out of the woodwork.

Just an idea but how strapped for space is Perth Zoo? I understand like Melbourne (who are almost over capacity) they have announced a phase-out. But Sydney's second enclosure seems rather small to me and we are only 5-6 years away from Kavi and Ashoka potentially needing to be housed separately. I understand it would require a second move down the track most likely to Werribee but spending a few years (potentially more than a few depending on how long Tricia lasts) in Perth forming a bond with Tricia and more importantly, Permai (a cow in a similar stage to Burma) would be good for Burma. That way she and Permai will have a known companion each when they move to Werribee.

This is just a thought experiment so please don't tear it apart. It is a quick and non-permanent fix to our current situation and Sydney Zoo unless they expand, appears to me to be a quick fix too. Also a cow her own age is worth much more socially to Burma than two energetic young bulls. She was already pushed by Anjalee's antics, Kavi and Ashoka would drive her up the wall!

I’m also of the opinion that Auckland Zoo are keen to relocate Burma within the region - if nothing else for the practical reasons of being a shorter transit and significantly less paperwork than a North American export would entail.

Although I’d previously discounted Perth Zoo for their lack of space and their commitment to phasing out elephants (sending her there would be a stop gap solution), your idea certainly shouldn’t be discounted. The exhibit looked cramped for two cows upon my visit; but three cows sharing a small exhibit would generally have a better welfare outlook than a cow living alone in a larger exhibit, so it may be considered with a view of the wider picture.

It’s hard to say if Werribee would be willing to acquire Permai and Burma. The stress of incoming females could prove detrimental to their otherwise flourishing herd (which has remained EEHV free to date); however a trio of male calves from the expectant females could leave them open to boosting the female herd with these cows. They are keen to grow the herd to 20-25 elephants and every time they breed, they run the risk of producing a male calf that will need placing once mature.

 

[Zoofan15]

Attempts to breed from Permai (2008-2009):

I was interested to come across this note in Perth Zoo’s annual report from 2009:

During 2008-09, there were attempts at artificial insemination and natural breeding with the Zoo’s younger female elephant, Permai, and the bull elephant, Putra Mas. The strength of the training program and the bond between keepers and elephants has been a primary support in this work. Although not successful to date, the program continues and the Zoo acknowledges the collaboration with Dr Thomas Hildebrandt and his colleagues from the Institute for Zoo and Wildlife Research in Berlin.

These attempts were made as Perth Zoo launched their refurbished exhibit (the current elephant exhibit) and support the idea by @Swanson02 of relocating Burma to Perth temporarily by proving Perth Zoo were at least open to the idea of housing three cows (should the attempt have resulted in a female birth).

On a side note, it’s interesting to hear they were attempting to breed from Permai at the age of 30 - which was well past the age for a recommended first time breeding for this species.

 

[Swanson02]

Attempts to breed from Permai (2008-2009):
proving Perth Zoo were at least open to the idea of housing three cows (should the attempt have resulted in a female birth).

On a side note, it’s interesting to hear they were attempting to breed from Permai at the age of 30 - which was well past the age for a recommended first time breeding for this species.

That's very interesting it correlates with the time period when Taronga and Melbourne both first started breeding with the Thai imports, so it may have re-inspired Perth to start-up breeding again. Perth probably piggybacked off Melbourne paying for the German AI experts to come in and might have used their expertise to increase chances of breeding success with a 20-year-old Permai.

It’s hard to say if Werribee would be willing to acquire Permai and Burma. The stress of incoming females could prove detrimental to their otherwise flourishing herd (which has remained EEHV free to date);

Yeah, I agree, Werribee might not accept Permai let alone Burma, for the same reasons TWPZ are saying no to Burma right now. Putra Mas could be Perth's bargaining chip though due to his founder status he's of value to ZoosVic. So I could see Perth Zoo striking a deal where they donate Putra Mas to Werribee under the condition they take Permai too (given she presents no EEHV risk to calves).

 

[Zoofan15]

That's very interesting it correlates with the time period when Taronga and Melbourne both first started breeding with the Thai imports, so it may have re-inspired Perth to start-up breeding again. Perth probably piggybacked off Melbourne paying for the German AI experts to come in and might have used their expertise to increase chances of breeding success with a 20-year-old Permai.

That’s correct. I know Perth were initially hopeful of being the first zoo in Australia to produce an elephant calf after they recorded the first natural mating of elephants in an Australian zoo in 2005. Sadly nothing came of the attempt and they then tried AI in addition to natural breeding.

Interestingly there was also talk of undertaking AI on Kashin at Auckland Zoo in the early 1990’s (who was then in her mid-20’s). It was cancelled in the interests of her health (chronic arthritis); but trialled unsuccessfully with Burma in the early 2000’s.

Yeah, I agree, Werribee might not accept Permai let alone Burma, for the same reasons TWPZ are saying no to Burma right now. Putra Mas could be Perth's bargaining chip though due to his founder status he's of value to ZoosVic. So I could see Perth Zoo striking a deal where they donate Putra Mas to Werribee under the condition they take Permai too (given she presents no EEHV risk to calves).

The lure of a founder bull (Putra Mas) may well prove a powerful bargaining chip for Perth Zoo in off loading Permai. Just over a decade from now, Werribee will need an unrelated bull to breed with any female offspring produced by Dokoon and Mali, given Luk Chai is the sire and the only other bull is Dokoon’s son.

I’m guessing their long term plan is to shift Man Jai on and receive Putra Mas in his place. Current plans for Werribee’s complex detail a large bull paddock with limited capacity for separation. Further modifications would be needed to house multiple bulls if that’s their intention.

 

[Zorro]

That’s correct. I know Perth were initially hopeful of being the first zoo in Australia to produce an elephant calf after they recorded the first natural mating of elephants in an Australian zoo in 2005. Sadly nothing came of the attempt and they then tried AI in addition to natural breeding.

Interestingly there was also talk of undertaking AI on Kashin at Auckland Zoo in the early 1990’s (who was then in her mid-20’s). It was cancelled in the interests of her health (chronic arthritis); but trialled unsuccessfully with Burma in the early 2000’s.


The lure of a founder bull (Putra Mas) may well prove a powerful bargaining chip for Perth Zoo in off loading Permai. Just over a decade from now, Werribee will need an unrelated bull to breed with any female offspring produced by Dokoon and Mali, given Luk Chai is the sire and the only other bull is Dokoon’s son.

I’m guessing their long term plan is to shift Man Jai on and receive Putra Mas in his place. Current plans for Werribee’s complex detail a large bull paddock with limited capacity for separation. Further modifications would be needed to house multiple bulls if that’s their intention.

I believe there will be provisions for more than one bull at Werribee

 

[Swanson02]

I’m guessing their long term plan is to shift Man Jai on and receive Putra Mas in his place.

I assume he will most likely end up internationally either in the US or Europe

Also, a possibility with the Burma-to-Taronga scenario mentioned above, is that it would allow for just Pak Boon to be transferred to TWPZ leaving Tang Mo with Burma as a companion. This frees up space for one more calf, however, ruins the possibility of a swap for Sabai and Pathi Harn. TWPZ may just run on two breeding bulls (Gung and Pathi Harn) and export young Sabai in the next 5-6 years as he is genetically well represented (which lines up well with the second round of calves being born at TWPZ).

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe there will be provisions for more than one bull at Werribee

The current plans outline one large bull paddock with a holding yard, barns and an introduction paddock that links to the cow paddock.

In the short term it will be used to manage Luk Chai and Man Jai both seperately and together.

Long term, they may look at subdividing the paddock, with smaller yards holding single breeding bulls; and a larger space accomodating a bachelor herd of adolescents transitioning from the matriarchal herd.

 

[Zorro]

The current plans outline one large bull paddock with a holding yard, barns and an introduction paddock that links to the cow paddock.

In the short term it will be used to manage Luk Chai and Man Jai both seperately and together.

Long term, they may look at subdividing the paddock, with smaller yards holding single breeding bulls; and a larger space accomodating a bachelor herd of adolescents transitioning from the matriarchal herd.

Possibly in stage two

 

[Zoofan15]

I assume he will most likely end up internationally either in the US or Europe

Also, a possibility with the Burma-to-Taronga scenario mentioned above, is that it would allow for just Pak Boon to be transferred to TWPZ leaving Tang Mo with Burma as a companion. This frees up space for one more calf, however, ruins the possibility of a swap for Sabai and Pathi Harn. TWPZ may just run on two breeding bulls (Gung and Pathi Harn) and export young Sabai in the next 5-6 years as he is genetically well represented (which lines up well with the second round of calves being born at TWPZ).

I’d say that’s a strong possibility re. Man Jai.

Dokoon’s line is set to become well represented in the region through herself and Mali; and Bong Su’s line could be continued through Pathi Harn.

Going forward, I suspect Taronga Western Plains will breed Pathi Harn with Thong Dee and Anjalee (instead of Gung). A third son from Gung x Thong Dee would be pointless.

Ongard’s age played a factor in his decision to export him over Man Jai, but given Kulab is no longer reproductively viable, he was Bong Su’s most valuable son.

 

[Zoofan15]

Possibly in stage two

Much further down the line, there’s the possibility of Monarto Zoo holding elephants. They’d be valuable as a holder of bachelor bulls, with several expected from Werribee’s herd alone if regular breeding is expected to occur.

With regular breeding at Werribee, a cohort of similar aged bulls could easily be formed; which could be mentored by an older bull such as Luk Chai or Man Jai.

 

[Swanson02]

Ongard’s age played a factor in his decision to export him over Man Jai, but given Kulab is no longer reproductively viable, he was Bong Su’s most valuable son.

I agree, there is a greater risk of exporting Man Jai than there is say Sabai (whose parents are alive and breeding). If Man Jai is exported god forbid that anything happens to Pathi Harn as he would be the last of Bong Su's sons in the region.

 

[Zorro]

Much further down the line, there’s the possibility of Monarto Zoo holding elephants. They’d be valuable as a holder of bachelor bulls, with several expected from Werribee’s herd alone if regular breeding is expected to occur.

With regular breeding at Werribee, a cohort of similar aged bulls could easily be formed; which could be mentored by an older bull such as Luk Chai or Man Jai.

My source says provision for more than one bull

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree, there is a greater risk of exporting Man Jai than there is say Sabai (whose parents are alive and breeding). If Man Jai is exported god forbid that anything happens to Pathi Harn as he would be the last of Bong Su's sons in the region.

Very true. Going forward, the breeding programme will focus on breeding at two sites - Werribee and Dubbo. Sabai will be redundant at both of them and an excellent candidate for export. He comes from a different line to Ongard, so would be a desirable for import into the USA.

It’ll be interesting to see as and when the Sydney Zoo bulls enter the breeding programme. Daughters of Mali will need to be paired with a bull from a third patriarchal line - either Putra Mas or the Sydney bulls.

 

[Jambo]

I’d say that’s a strong possibility re. Man Jai.

Dokoon’s line is set to become well represented in the region through herself and Mali; and Bong Su’s line could be continued through Pathi Harn.

Going forward, I suspect Taronga Western Plains will breed Pathi Harn with Thong Dee and Anjalee (instead of Gung). A third son from Gung x Thong Dee would be pointless.

Ongard’s age played a factor in his decision to export him over Man Jai, but given Kulab is no longer reproductively viable, he was Bong Su’s most valuable son.

There's really no other option for Man Jai breeding wise within the region, so an export overseas is incredibly likely long term.

I too, agree re. Pathi Harn. Breeding Pathi Harn with Anjalee and Thong Dee, at least for now, would probably work best. Long term, Gung can still be used to breed with Porntip and her daughter, Kanlaya.

Ongard was exported more for space, rather than genetics. Melbourne was limited with space, and the decision would've been made as he was the only candidate to be exported. It's a shame as he's the only offspring of Kulab and could've served a role as a breeder within the region to continue Kulab's genetics, possibly at Dubbo.