Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2023

[Zoofan15]

The timeline if 2024, would that be to do with the fact that monato actually still have the original elephant enclosure still in working order? It probably doesnt need many modifications to be be brought up to current standards.... obviously its going to be majorly enlarged.

The new complex is apparently going to include the original elephant enclosure and the neighboring blackbuck paddock. I imagine the exhibit itself dosen't need many modifications and the major focus would certainly be on building new back of house facilities (barns ect.). A timeframe of a year to complete the complex is certainly do-able.

The project is valued at $6.5 million, so I would anticipate a full-scale overhaul of the barn and additional fencing to comprise the bulk of the expense - combined with transport costs.

They previously held a single female Asian elephant, but will need seperate bull housing; as well as the capacity to seperate the cows during the introduction period.

Excitingly, this article mentions the trio may be joined by “five elephants or more” in the future. This implies a breeding herd is the long term goal.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...o/news-story/c16326c26ffe70aa379d31c319262134
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...o/news-story/c16326c26ffe70aa379d31c319262134

 

[Swanson02]

Fundraising begins for elephants at Monarto:

Though not confirmed, this is an exciting possibility! The 14ha habitat would accomodate 1.2 elephants - Putra Mas (1989) and Permai (1989) from Perth and Burma (1982) from Auckland Zoo.

It’s great to see commonsense prevail in retaining Putra Mas within the region. Many of us predicted Werribee as his destination; but if fundraising efforts by Monarto are successful, at least they’ll still be the opportunity for breeding loans over the coming years.

—————————

From Auckland Zoo’s socials:

Today, our colleagues at Zoos South Australia begin a fundraising campaign to build a habitat at Monarto Safari Park for Asian elephants within the Australasian region.

If their fundraising efforts are successful, the open range zoo would initially provide a forever home for three Asian elephants, one of which could be Auckland Zoo’s elephant Burma.

“We are very excited about the possibility of Monarto Safari Park developing this new 14ha (35 acre) habitat for the Australasian regional elephant programme - and really hope that this fundraising effort can become a reality,” says our director, Kevin Buley.

I'm currently in Europe
But this is the most exciting zoological news in my short existence on this planet

Good to see my chats with keepers weren't entirely speculation

 

[Zoofan15]

I'm currently in Europe
But this is the most exciting zoological news in my short existence on this planet

Good to see my chats with keepers weren't entirely speculation

It’s highly exciting and the best possible outcome with regards to rehoming Auckland and Perth’s elephants.

A new holder may have been something we all predicted in Monarto - but a 14ha complex to potentially hold a third breeding herd is the ultimate! And it’s opening in just over a year!

 

[Jambo]

The project is valued at $6.5 million, so I would anticipate a full-scale overhaul of the barn and additional fencing to comprise the bulk of the expense - combined with transport costs.

They previously held a single female Asian elephant, but will need seperate bull housing; as well as the capacity to seperate the cows during the introduction period.

Excitingly, this article mentions the trio may be joined by “five elephants or more” in the future. This implies a breeding herd is the long term goal.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...o/news-story/c16326c26ffe70aa379d31c319262134

It’s highly exciting and the best possible outcome with regards to rehoming Auckland and Perth’s elephants.

A new holder may have been something we all predicted in Monarto - but a 14ha complex to potentially hold a third breeding herd is the ultimate! And opening in just over a year!

It gives the region a third breeding facility too; and it certainly makes the most sense to add Taronga's cows into this equation too. Monarto initially had a plan to import the regions city elephants and it seems twenty five years later this will finally becoming to fruition!

I do think sending Thong Dee over with Pak Boon and Tang Mo makes the most sense. She is becoming well represented through Luk Chai, and pairing her with a valuable wildborn bull will certainly even things up for her future calves.

She'll also get the opportunity to be reunited with Tang Mo who she was very close with back at Taronga.

Putra Mas would therefore get two breeding females, and could potentially receive more down the line too (splitting Mali and any future daughters would make the most sense regionally).

 

[Zoofan15]

It gives the region a third breeding facility too; and it certainly makes the most sense to add Taronga's cows into this equation too. Monarto initially had a plan to import the regions city elephants and it seems twenty five years later this will finally becoming to fruition!

I do think sending Thong Dee over with Pak Boon and Tang Mo makes the most sense. She is becoming well represented through Luk Chai, and pairing her with a valuable wildborn bull will certainly even things up for her future calves.

She'll also get the opportunity to be reunited with Tang Mo who she was very close with back at Taronga.

Putra Mas would therefore get two breeding females, and could potentially receive more down the line too (splitting Mali and any future daughters would make the most sense regionally).

In the event my prediction of Pak Boon, Thong Dee and Tang Mo transferring to Monarto comes to pass, it’ll be interesting to see what impact this has on breeding plans.

If Monarto’s complex opens in 2024, it’d be eight years since Thong Dee last gave birth; and seven years since Pak Boon last gave birth. This would only give Monarto around a year to integrate Burma and Permai before the other cows needed to be on site to negate issues associated with long birth intervals.

Pak Boon and Thong Dee could conceive prior to the transfer, but pregnancy hormones could complicate introductions (especially to the unfamiliar cows) - with the same issue occurring if they conceived soon after arrival on site.

I’m thinking the best solution would be for Pak Boon and Thong Dee to breed prior to transferring. 22 month pregnancy + 12 months for calf to be trained/prepared for transit = arrival in 2026. Sires would be Gung through AI and Pathi Harn through natural breeding respectively - with female calves being an added bonus as they too could breed with Putra Mas.

3 cows + 2 calves = 5 elephants (the number quoted in the article I linked above).

 

[Swanson02]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but on the 7news YouTube channel at the end of their video ZooSA's director states that Monarto would be "on the look out for a further two females (in addition to the 3 already planned), and that may include breeding opportunities". I imagine this is a move to both satiate, Auckland's wishes for Burma to join a Matriarchal herd (as the situation at Monarto with one other female companion won't be much different to her old situation). And also to future proof Monartos herd, ensuring that elephants the 2nd time round, remain forever.

Firstly I can't see any of ZoosVic's herd being involved in this move, things are running smoothly with Werribee and you wouldn't want to mess up herd dynamics whilst the calves are young. Saying that Kulab could be involved in some way, as Kati matures her relationship with Num Oi maybe strained. She might also be pushed to the outer of WORZ's matriarchal structure as she has no matrilineal line. Thus she could be paired with Tang Mo as part of a non breeding delegation to join what would be Monartos developing "retirement community".

Likewise Australia Zoo's cows are a different 'subspecies' and also on a 'loan' from Taman Safari, so can't be touched. Sydney Zoo doesnt have any cows. Which really only leaves a pairing of cows from Tarongas 2 groupings. Anjalee has just spent 18 months integrating into a herd lead by Porntip, leaving both of them and young Kanalya out of the question. Thus Thong Dee, Pak Boon and Tang Mo are the only eminently viable options.

• The obvious is Tang Mo and Pak Boon, Taronga may decide to change plans and phase out in the next two years, or the two cows could be swapped out for Sabai (before he is eventually exported) as he matures out of TWPZs matriarchal herd
• Pak Boon and Thong Dee, this would provide better breeding opportunities with the crucial Putra Mas but would leave Tang Mo out to dry (potentially all three could make the move nothing is concrete)
• My favourite possibility though is Thong Dee and Tang Mo, both were close at Taronga and will likely bond again, therefore, will be a comfort to eachother after the move. Thong Dee is also a proven breeder, this move also allows Pak Boon to move to TWPZ.

Sabai would in many of these scenarios move to Taronga, it's the only way to ensure Taronga continue to hold elephants and maintain competitiveness with Sydney if that's the path they wish to follow. Whether this is with Pathi Harn or not is optional. Sabai could remain at Taronga for up to a decade before eventually being exported.

 

[Zoofan15]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but on the 7news YouTube channel at the end of their video ZooSA's director states that Monarto would be "on the look out for a further two females (in addition to the 3 already planned), and that may include breeding opportunities". I imagine this is a move to both satiate, Auckland's wishes for Burma to join a Matriarchal herd (as the situation at Monarto with one other female companion won't be much different to her old situation). And also to future proof Monartos herd, ensuring that elephants the 2nd time round, remain forever.

Firstly I can't see any of ZoosVic's herd being involved in this move, things are running smoothly with Werribee and you wouldn't want to mess up herd dynamics whilst the calves are young. Saying that Kulab could be involved in some way, as Kati matures her relationship with Num Oi maybe strained. She might also be pushed to the outer of WORZ's matriarchal structure as she has no matrilineal line. Thus she could be paired with Tang Mo as part of a non breeding delegation to join what would be Monartos developing "retirement community".

Likewise Australia Zoo's cows are a different 'subspecies' and also on a 'loan' from Taman Safari, so can't be touched. Sydney Zoo doesnt have any cows. Which really only leaves a pairing of cows from Tarongas 2 groupings. Anjalee has just spent 18 months integrating into a herd lead by Porntip, leaving both of them and young Kanalya out of the question. Thus Thong Dee, Pak Boon and Tang Mo are the only eminently viable options.

• The obvious is Tang Mo and Pak Boon, Taronga may decide to change plans and phase out in the next two years, or the two cows could be swapped out for Sabai (before he is eventually exported) as he matures out of TWPZs matriarchal herd
• Pak Boon and Thong Dee, this would provide better breeding opportunities with the crucial Putra Mas but would leave Tang Mo out to dry (potentially all three could make the move nothing is concrete)
• My favourite possibility though is Thong Dee and Tang Mo, both were close at Taronga and will likely bond again, therefore, will be a comfort to eachother after the move. Thong Dee is also a proven breeder, this move also allows Pak Boon to move to TWPZ.

Sabai would in many of these scenarios move to Taronga, it's the only way to ensure Taronga continue to hold elephants and maintain competitiveness with Sydney if that's the path they wish to follow. Whether this is with Pathi Harn or not is optional. Sabai could remain at Taronga for up to a decade before eventually being exported.

That’s good to hear! It’d be great to see Monarto establish themselves as a third breeding facility.

We can definitely discount Kulab transferring to Monarto. She’s settled in Melbourne’s herd and several zoos in Europe and the US have had integration issues with unrelated females. Trying to integrate four unrelated adult cows from four zoos would be asking for trouble.

Pak Boon and Tang Mo are the most likely candidates and tie in with Taronga’s plans to transfer this pair out. This would give Monarto a valuable founder female to work with - creating a valuable pairing with Putra Mas. Pak Boon is 31 years old and would likely produce at least two calves.

Pak Boon and Thong Dee are a possibility. They would likely re-integrate well together and I can’t foresee Thong Dee causing issues with Burma or Permai. It’d require Tang Mo to assimilate into the Dubbo herd and with them planning to breed from Anjalee soon, I doubt they’d want the disruption. The only way I can see this working is if Pak Boon, Thong Dee and Tang Mo were sent as a trio to Monarto (which apparently isn’t an option if they’re sourcing two cows).

We can discount Thong Dee and Tang Mo. This would give Monarto no additional breeding cows to the above and would require Pak Boon to transfer to Dubbo. Porntip and Pak Boon were close friends, but Pak Boon has had close to a decade of being the matriarch of Taronga’s herd and there’s the potential for her to challenge Porntip. How Pak Boon and Anjalee would interact is an unknown and Dubbo wouldn’t want to risk any conflict/stress in their herd (only to wind up with the same number of elephants).

Most likely option: Pak Boon and Tang Mo transfer to Monarto

Best option (imo): Pak Boon, Thong Dee and Tang Mo transfer to Monarto

 

[ZCChip]

I thought tang mo can’t get pregnant?

 

[StoppableSan]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but on the 7news YouTube channel at the end of their video ZooSA's director states that Monarto would be "on the look out for a further two females (in addition to the 3 already planned), and that may include breeding opportunities". I imagine this is a move to both satiate, Auckland's wishes for Burma to join a Matriarchal herd (as the situation at Monarto with one other female companion won't be much different to her old situation). And also to future proof Monartos herd, ensuring that elephants the 2nd time round, remain forever.

Firstly I can't see any of ZoosVic's herd being involved in this move, things are running smoothly with Werribee and you wouldn't want to mess up herd dynamics whilst the calves are young. Saying that Kulab could be involved in some way, as Kati matures her relationship with Num Oi maybe strained. She might also be pushed to the outer of WORZ's matriarchal structure as she has no matrilineal line. Thus she could be paired with Tang Mo as part of a non breeding delegation to join what would be Monartos developing "retirement community".

Likewise Australia Zoo's cows are a different 'subspecies' and also on a 'loan' from Taman Safari, so can't be touched. Sydney Zoo doesnt have any cows. Which really only leaves a pairing of cows from Tarongas 2 groupings. Anjalee has just spent 18 months integrating into a herd lead by Porntip, leaving both of them and young Kanalya out of the question. Thus Thong Dee, Pak Boon and Tang Mo are the only eminently viable options.

• The obvious is Tang Mo and Pak Boon, Taronga may decide to change plans and phase out in the next two years, or the two cows could be swapped out for Sabai (before he is eventually exported) as he matures out of TWPZs matriarchal herd
• Pak Boon and Thong Dee, this would provide better breeding opportunities with the crucial Putra Mas but would leave Tang Mo out to dry (potentially all three could make the move nothing is concrete)
• My favourite possibility though is Thong Dee and Tang Mo, both were close at Taronga and will likely bond again, therefore, will be a comfort to eachother after the move. Thong Dee is also a proven breeder, this move also allows Pak Boon to move to TWPZ.

Sabai would in many of these scenarios move to Taronga, it's the only way to ensure Taronga continue to hold elephants and maintain competitiveness with Sydney if that's the path they wish to follow. Whether this is with Pathi Harn or not is optional. Sabai could remain at Taronga for up to a decade before eventually being exported.

I actually don't mind Sabai being swapped for Tang Mo and Pak Boon - are there any other bulls that could be sent Taronga's way to keep him company?

 

[Zoofan15]

I thought tang mo can’t get pregnant?

Tang Mo is non-breeding, but will need to go somewhere. Taronga have previously indicated their intention to transfer out Pak Boon and Tang Mo. The plan was originally for them to go to Dubbo, but this option presents a better alternative for all parties involved.

Transferring Tang Mo to Monarto to become their third non breeding cow (along with Burma and Permai); or joining Porntip’s herd at Dubbo are realistically her two options.

For the reasons I outlined above, transferring Tang Mo to Monarto appears to be the best option - ideally with Pak Boon.

I actually don't mind Sabai being swapped for Tang Mo and Pak Boon - are there any other bulls that could be sent Taronga's way to keep him company?

Man Jai (2013) at Melbourne is the obvious candidate. His only value to Werribee’s breeding programme is he’s the only bull unrelated to Num Oi’s seven month old daughter (who will be breeding a decade or so from now); but AI with Putra Mas is also an option for her.

Considering Man Jai and Sabai are largely redundant to our breeding programme, I’m surprised there hasn’t been any move to export them to the US. They’re first generation bulls and Sabai is of no relation to Ongard (2013) - our previous export.

 

[Zoofan15]

Dubbo’s Bulls - Tusk Photos

I thought people would be interested to see photos of the tusks of Dubbo’s two eldest bulls, which were posted yesterday on socials.

It’s nice to see both bulls retain their tusks into adulthood following several young bulls losing one or both of their tusks in the region.

There’s a video of Sabai on socials too if anyone’s interested - though his tusks are still quite small.

Gung (2000):


Photo source: TWPZ socials

Pathi Harn (2010):


Photo source: TWPZ socials

 

[Jambo]

Dubbo’s Bulls - Tusk Photos

I thought people would be interested to see photos of the tusks of Dubbo’s two eldest bulls, which were posted yesterday on socials.

It’s nice to see both bulls retain their tusks into adulthood following several young bulls losing one or both of their tusks in the region.

There’s a video of Sabai on socials too if anyone’s interested - though his tusks are still quite small.

Gung (2000):

View attachment 644462
Photo source: TWPZ socials

Pathi Harn (2010):

View attachment 644463
Photo source: TWPZ socials

Great to see an updated photo of Pathi Harn. He's certainly grown again; looking about full size now. He must be a big bull coming from a huge father and a reasonably sized mother.

The hair on his head seems to have come through more in recent years and certainly must be something from Porntip's side as his father, Bong Su, lacked any. In saying that, he definitely has the tall build, of which his half brothers Ongard and Man Jai have too; a nice characteristic of Bong Su's offspring.

Also awesome to see he still has both tusks. He's one of the only young males in the region with both, and hopefully he gets to retain them into adulthood. It would be great if Dubbo allowed him to grow them out.

 

[Zoofan15]

Breeding at Dubbo:

I’m hopeful we’ll be hearing a pregnancy announcement soon from Dubbo. It’s been 17 months since Anjalee was imported and seven years since Thong Dee last gave birth.

I’m of the opinion it makes sense to breed from all three cows concurrently. Anjalee is a priority as an unrepresented first time breeder; along with Thong Dee, due to the gap since her last birth. Porntip will be in the same position Thong Dee is in within two years - and delaying breeding from her will only mean her newborn is surrounded by two boisterous two years olds.

Melbourne is an example of the benefit synchronising births can have on the calves’ social development and gives the herd a shared purpose. Though it should be noted the timing of Melbourne’s births were achieved with no short amount of luck, it nonetheless represents the ideal.

The obvious pairings are:

Gung and Porntip
Pathi Harn and Thong Dee
Gung or Pathi Harn and Anjalee

 

[Jambo]

Breeding at Dubbo:

I’m hopeful we’ll be hearing a pregnancy announcement soon from Dubbo. It’s been 17 months since Anjalee was imported and seven years since Thong Dee last gave birth.

I’m of the opinion it makes sense to breed from all three cows concurrently. Anjalee is a priority as an unrepresented first time breeder; along with Thong Dee, due to the gap since her last birth. Porntip will be in the same position Thong Dee is in within two years - and delaying breeding from her will only mean her newborn is surrounded by two boisterous two years olds.

Melbourne is an example of the benefit synchronising births can have on the calves’ social development and gives the herd a shared purpose. Though it should be noted the timing of Melbourne’s births were achieved with no short amount of luck, it nonetheless represents the ideal.

The obvious pairings are:

Gung and Porntip
Pathi Harn and Thong Dee
Gung or Pathi Harn and Anjalee

Breeding there has obviously been halted in the meantime to allow Anjalee to settle into the herd without pregnancy hormones affecting herd dynamics. It has been more than a year since her move now so I would certainly expect breeding to take place very soon if it hasn't already. If I was to take a guess, I don't think we'll see any calves until at least late next year at earliest but around 2025 does seem the most likely imo.

Breeding all three females at once is certainly something Dubbo should be considering following the success of Melbourne's trio. By the time Porntip gives birth again it'll at least be six years following Kanlaya's birth, which is a suitable artificial age gap that Taronga attempts to lean towards. Delaying her to the next cohort (potentially with Kanlaya) is also a possibility but this would mean she would have more than a decade gap between her two calves (which is inadvisable, especially for a female in her 30's now).

 

[Zoofan15]

Breeding there has obviously been halted in the meantime to allow Anjalee to settle into the herd without pregnancy hormones affecting herd dynamics. It has been more than a year since her move now so I would certainly expect breeding to take place very soon if it hasn't already. If I was to take a guess, I don't think we'll see any calves until at least late next year at earliest but around 2025 does seem the most likely imo.

Breeding all three females at once is certainly something Dubbo should be considering following the success of Melbourne's trio. By the time Porntip gives birth again it'll at least be six years following Kanlaya's birth, which is a suitable artificial age gap that Taronga attempts to lean towards. Delaying her to the next cohort (potentially with Kanlaya) is also a possibility but this would mean she would have more than a decade gap between her two calves (which is inadvisable, especially for a female in her 30's now).

It’s been a number of months since there was footage of the bulls interacting with the cows and while this is occasionally done for social reasons, it has less of a purpose now Sabai is living independently of the matriarchal herd. I’m optimistic at least a couple of the cows are several months pregnant.

Porntip and Thong Dee clearly have no issues conceiving and it wouldn’t surprise me to see them attempt to breed all three - with the expectation Kanlaya may conceive later due to her irregular cycles (potentially not even a problem when they have bulls on site). With this in mind, a cohort could include calves born to two of the cows late 2024 and a third calf born a few months later in 2025.

If Porntip gives birth 2024-2025, then a similar birth interval could see her giving birth to a fourth and final calf in a subsequent cohort with Anjalee and Kanlaya. I could just as easily see Porntip being retired from the breeding programme after her third calf however - especially if they’re lucky enough to get a second female calf from her.

 

[Jambo]

It’s been a number of months since there was footage of the bulls interacting with the cows and while this is occasionally done for social reasons, it has less of a purpose now Sabai is living independently of the matriarchal herd. I’m optimistic at least a couple of the cows are several months pregnant.

Porntip and Thong Dee clearly have no issues conceiving and it wouldn’t surprise me to see them attempt to breed all three - with the expectation Kanlaya may conceive later due to her irregular cycles (potentially not even a problem when they have bulls on site). With this in mind, a cohort could include calves born to two of the cows late 2024 and a third calf born a few months later in 2025.

If Porntip gives birth 2024-2025, then a similar birth interval could see her giving birth to a fourth and final calf in a subsequent cohort with Anjalee and Kanlaya. I could just as easily see Porntip being retired from the breeding programme after her third calf however - especially if they’re lucky enough to get a second female calf from her.

The bulls and cows rarely are put in together which is a big shame imo as it would be very beneficial for social purposes but obviously those Dubbo girls don't value the boys as much as the Melbourne girls. Occasionally Pathi and Sabai spend time with the girls, but this has decreased as Sabai's gotten older and was previously primarily used just for interaction with Kanlaya who has lacked a playmate of her age.

Gung's also rarely kept with any of the elephants. I don't think he's ever been in with Pathi and Sabai and I haven't seen him in with the girls since he first arrived years and years ago. Perhaps Pathi's the designated breeding male and they'll elect to AI Porntip who hasn't breed naturally for some reason or another. Maybe she dosen't like Gung?

Kanlaya will likely be apart of the next cohort (with her close friend Anjalee). This would be at least four or so years after this upcoming cohort which would allow Anjalee to have a natural interval between her first two calves.

I too can see both Porntip and Thong Dee being retired from breeding after these next calves. A female from both would almost guarantee it imo, especially as both females would then also have a breeding son in the region too.

 

[Zoofan15]

The bulls and cows rarely are put in together which is a big shame imo as it would be very beneficial for social purposes but obviously those Dubbo girls don't value the boys as much as the Melbourne girls. Occasionally Pathi and Sabai spend time with the girls, but this has decreased as Sabai's gotten older and was previously primarily used just for interaction with Kanlaya who has lacked a playmate of her age.

Gung's also rarely kept with any of the elephants. I don't think he's ever been in with Pathi and Sabai and I haven't seen him in with the girls since he first arrived years and years ago. Perhaps Pathi's the designated breeding male and they'll elect to AI Porntip who hasn't breed naturally for some reason or another. Maybe she dosen't like Gung?

Kanlaya will likely be apart of the next cohort (with her close friend Anjalee). This would be at least four or so years after this upcoming cohort which would allow Anjalee to have a natural interval between her first two calves.

I too can see both Porntip and Thong Dee being retired from breeding after these next calves. A female from both would almost guarantee it imo, especially as both females would then also have a breeding son in the region too.

According to the video on the zoo’s socials, Sabai has been spending time with Gung (as well as Pathi), following the transfer of his brother to Melbourne Zoo. I get this impression Gung isn’t as social as bulls like Luk Chai, though this could be an age thing re. musth cycles.

It’s encouraging to see how well Anjalee has assimilated into Dubbo’s herd. It definitely adds to the case for not disrupting the herd dynamics re. Pak Boon and Tang Mo, who I firmly believe will be the two additional cows transferred to Monarto.

The million dollar question is whether Sabai is exported to the US in the coming years. They reportedly have space to house all the calves they can breed and considering he’s unrelated to Ongard and has no breeding application in Australasia, it seems a no brainer.

Sabai’s export would free up a paddock, leaving them with five:

1) Matriachal herd
2) Gung
3) Pathi Harn
4) Bull calves from next cohort
5) Spare/recovery paddock

 

[Jambo]

According to the video on the zoo’s socials, Sabai has been spending time with Gung (as well as Pathi), following the transfer of his brother to Melbourne Zoo. I get this impression Gung isn’t as social as bulls like Luk Chai, though this could be an age thing re. musth cycles.

It’s encouraging to see how well Anjalee has assimilated into Dubbo’s herd. It definitely adds to the case for not disrupting the herd dynamics re. Pak Boon and Tang Mo, who I firmly believe will be the two additional cows transferred to Monarto.

The million dollar question is whether Sabai is exported to the US in the coming years. They reportedly have space to house all the calves they can breed and considering he’s unrelated to Ongard and has no breeding application in Australasia, it seems a no brainer.

Sabai’s export would free up a paddock, leaving them with five:

1) Matriachal herd
2) Gung
3) Pathi Harn
4) Bull calves from next cohort
5) Spare/recovery paddock

It's rare to have a social bull so Luk Chai's certainly the exception. Both Pathi and Gung seem to enjoy their own time and I've heard Pathi does get a bit annoyed with being grouped with the other bulls for extended periods of time.

With Monarto looking to hold a breeding herd, I think a regional bachelor herd is probably no longer on the horizon which would therefore mean overseas exports would be required for surplus bulls born (especially at Dubbo with their limited space compared to Werribee, Monarto).

Sabai would be valuable to the US population, but I guess they'd just have to find the most suitable location for him over there. At the moment their population dosen't desire any new bulls but with a lot of the bulls ageing, new bulls will be required down the line.

 

[Zoofan15]

It's rare to have a social bull so Luk Chai's certainly the exception. Both Pathi and Gung seem to enjoy their own time and I've heard Pathi does get a bit annoyed with being grouped with the other bulls for extended periods of time.

With Monarto looking to hold a breeding herd, I think a regional bachelor herd is probably no longer on the horizon which would therefore mean overseas exports would be required for surplus bulls born (especially at Dubbo with their limited space compared to Werribee, Monarto).

Sabai would be valuable to the US population, but I guess they'd just have to find the most suitable location for him over there. At the moment their population dosen't desire any new bulls but with a lot of the bulls ageing, new bulls will be required down the line.

Australasia is in the fortunate position of having numerous founders and first generation elephants breeding. We have some of the most genetically valuable animals within the international captive population when you consider the North American and European regions have been successfully breeding for decades.

As a result, I’m confident our surplus bulls will continue to prove desirable to zoos overseas and Ongard will be the first of many we export.

Until there’s a move to export more bulls, I think it’s clear we’ll see restricted breeding - even at Werribee with all their space. An exception may be Pak Boon. It’s easy to see her being Monarto’s only breeding cow for the foreseeable and it therefore wouldn’t surprise me to see her produce two calves at natural birth intervals as a starting point to creating a multigenerational herd at Monarto. She and Putra Mas are our most valuable breeding pair.

 

[Abbey]

The bulls and cows rarely are put in together which is a big shame imo as it would be very beneficial for social purposes but obviously those Dubbo girls don't value the boys as much as the Melbourne girls. Occasionally Pathi and Sabai spend time with the girls, but this has decreased as Sabai's gotten older and was previously primarily used just for interaction with Kanlaya who has lacked a playmate of her age.

Gung's also rarely kept with any of the elephants. I don't think he's ever been in with Pathi and Sabai and I haven't seen him in with the girls since he first arrived years and years ago. Perhaps Pathi's the designated breeding male and they'll elect to AI Porntip who hasn't breed naturally for some reason or another. Maybe she dosen't like Gung?

Kanlaya will likely be apart of the next cohort (with her close friend Anjalee). This would be at least four or so years after this upcoming cohort which would allow Anjalee to have a natural interval between her first two calves.

I too can see both Porntip and Thong Dee being retired from breeding after these next calves. A female from both would almost guarantee it imo, especially as both females would then also have a breeding son in the region too.

I don't know any specifics about the nature of Porntip and Gung's relationship, but my understanding is that it's been more a matter of circumstances that they've never bred with each other and both of Porntip's calves have been conceived via AI.

When Pathi Harn was conceived in approx. May 2008, it was considered a priority for the matriarch to breed and there was a concern that Gung would not be able to reach the older female yet. Bong Su had been trained for AI (in the first instance to test his fertility, and then for AI with Melbourne's females when he did not breed naturally with them) and therefore was chosen as the sire.

The question mark is over why Porntip didn't conceive at Taronga before being transferred to Dubbo, like Thong Dee did. Obviously by the time Kanlaya was conceived, there were no adult bulls on site, so it made sense that she conceived via AI. I would only be speculating, but perhaps at the time, Taronga wanted to stagger breeding.

There only would have been two cows in the herd, plus their adolescent bull offspring, and maybe the zoo thought that it would be too much to have two young calves in close proximity. Even at Melbourne, there have been other non-breeding cows in the herd, in Kulab and Mek Kapah.

A calf from Anjalee sired by Pathi Harn would be valuable either way as the calf would be unrelated to the Gung/Thong Dee line, and therefore offspring of Dokkoon and Numoi sired by Luk Chai at Melbourne/Werribee. However, given Gung is a very proven bull, I would see the value in pairing him with Anjalee in the first instance.