Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2024

[Zoofan15]

Monarto Safari Park Update

Schematic of elephant complex:

A schematic of Monarto’s elephant complex is now available on their website:



Like Werribee’s complex, which will be divided into five paddocks, Monarto’s complex has multiple zones to facilitate breeding, socialisation and the establishment of a multigenerational herd.

Area 2 and Area 3 are the largest paddocks; with Area 4 appearing to be ideal for breeding introductions as it’s not bordered by either of the main paddocks like Area 5. Having multiple separation areas will be ideal from the outset as Monarto will initially manage the incoming elephants in three groupings until the integration of Burma and Permai has been achieved. A third or potentially fourth grouping (depending on which additional cows are received) will be in place again until a cohesive female herd is achieved.

Additional breeding cows:

A statement in the media specified an additional two cows would be coming to Monarto. This was also mentioned in the FAQ’s of their elephant website. This has now been removed and replaced with the following:

As we move to expand our herd we will work with the Asian Elephant Regional Breeding Program to increase our breeding capacity.

This supports accounts the decision of whether Pak Boon (1992) and Tang Mo (1999) go to Dubbo or Monarto is still undecided. It seems like most of us are in agreement that Thong Dee (1997) joining this pair at Monarto would be the best case scenario, so it’ll be interesting to see what eventuates.

 

[Zoofan15]

Monarto Safari Park Update

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/subs...k=bfb54ef4af46695650b65c1a62ad2455-1705800987

Burma arriving 2024; Putra Mas and Permai in 2025:

According to this source (unfortunately behind a paywall), the plan is for Burma to be imported later this year; with Putra Mas and Permai to arrive in 2025.

The difference in arrival dates between the cows is presumably to allow Burma to establish herself as the matriarch of the pair. Burma was the matriarch when living with Anjalee for seven years; whereas Permai was subordinate to her companion, Tricia.

—————————

The future hierarchy:

Looking further ahead, it’ll be interesting to see how the arrival of additional females will impact the hierarchy. Burma and Permai will presumably have up to a year to cement their bonds, but this timeframe (combined with their unfamiliarity with each other) is relatively inconsequential.

Potential affects of predicted transfer candidates on the hierarchy:

Pak Boon and Tang Mo: They’ve lived together since 2006 and have a strong bond. With Pak Boon’s dominance, this duo would hold the highest potential for challenging Burma’s leadership.

Pak Boon and Thong Dee: They’re familiar with each other from their time together at Taronga Zoo (prior to Thong Dee’s transfer to Dubbo in 2015), but their ties would be weaker then other combinations.

Thong Dee and Tang Mo: Both subordinates in their respective herds; but shared a close bond at Taronga Zoo. I would assess them as the best candidates for assimilating into a herd with Burma and Permai without disruption to the hierarchy.

Pak Boon, Thong Dee and Tang Mo: It’s clear this would be a landslide in favour of Pak Boon assuming dominance of the herd. Whether that would be a bad thing would depend on Burma’s acceptance of a change in leadership.

 

[Zoofan15]

Elephants are one of my favourite animals and its sad to see Burma go, but its the best thing for her and any other captive elephants since the current situation at Auckland Zoo would not be ideal as has already been well discussed. one thing I would like "smaller zoos" (in terms of size) is have more bachelor herds, because
1. Bulls are often underrepresented in zoos because of the reputation are harder to handle because of their larger size and because of musth ( though female elephants do go though a similar hormonal stage that can make them aggressive). having plenty of healthy bulls will be important for the long term breeding.
2. Any zoo with bulls typically only have one and bulls need social interaction at all ages and its important for young bulls to learn and find mentorship in older bulls to learn how to behave. this may actually make them easier to handle in both captivity and the wild , and then can be moved off to zoos with female herds for breeding.

there are a lot of zoos starting to do this over in Europe and the US but not in Oceania, so it would be cool if a zoo like Auckland tried that, though it would require big changes

Interesting point!

The only drawback is while a mature bull could be sent to Auckland to mentor younger bulls in this hypothetical context; the young bulls that join them would be deprived of the experience of seeing bulls mounting cows and courtship behaviours (which are beneficial to the social development of natural breeding bulls). With this in mind, I believe the best way forward is for young bulls to be accommodated on site by the open range zoos until young adulthood, where they can learn these skills firsthand.

What could work better is the retirement of breeding bulls; as well as younger bulls who are surplus to the breeding programme.

After siring the next cohort of calves at Werribee, Luk Chai will be surplus to the breeding programme; but he’ll presumably remain on site to mentor any young bulls, including his sons or potentially the next breeding bull. It’s a valuable role and Luk Chai is ideal for this, being a comparatively placid bull.

I would however identify Sabai as an obvious candidate and potentially Roi-Yim considering the strong representation of his maternal line and the role Pathi Harn and Mali will play in continuing his paternal line.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Have there been any announcements or hints at any exports or imports within the population? It appears that some bloodlines are getting rather overrepresented within the region, and it would be a huge shame to retire bulls like Luk Chai or not use younger bulls from popular lines who could do wonders overseas. The transport of mature bulls is very tricky, but it's a thought nevertheless.
There is a need in NA for new bulls and cows, and no doubt Europe would leap on the opportunity to pass on some surplus to Australasia if given the oppertunity.

 

[Zoofan15]

Have there been any announcements or hints at any exports or imports within the population? It appears that some bloodlines are getting rather overrepresented within the region, and it would be a huge shame to retire bulls like Luk Chai or not use younger bulls from popular lines who could do wonders overseas. The transport of mature bulls is very tricky, but it's a thought nevertheless.
There is a need in NA for new bulls and cows, and no doubt Europe would leap on the opportunity to pass on some surplus to Australasia if given the oppertunity.

I’ve heard nothing to suggest any exports will be taking place anytime soon. The obvious candidate for export is Sabai, who’s a full brother to Luk Chai and has no apparent application to the breeding programme. He’s of no relation to Ongard, so it surprises me he hasn’t already gone to North America. Potentially he could breed with Kanlaya, but so too could Gung (who’s a founder).

Potentially Monarto might consider importing cows from Europe if they don’t receive cows from Taronga/Dubbo, but I’d rather see the region make use of the cows we have. Our most represented cows have two (surviving) offspring each. That’s not a lot. We additionally have two viable founder cows (Pak Boon and Anjalee) who are unrepresented. Considering their genetic value, it makes sense to work with what we’ve got rather than bring more in.

I was told Luk Chai will sire the next cohort of calves at Werribee and then retire. All going well, he could potentially have six offspring across two cohorts, which is more than adequate representation. He’s proved a very patient bull with younger elephants, so I imagine they’ll be keen to retain him as a mentor once he’s retired from breeding.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

The obvious candidate for export is Sabai, who’s a full brother to Luk Chai and has no apparent application to the breeding programme. He’s of no relation to Ongard, so it surprises me he hasn’t already gone to North America.

Sabai is of prime age to be transferred. He's not too large or mature, and I can think of a few NA facilities that could be willing to take him on until he is mature enough to enter a breeding position. He would be of incredible value, given that no doubt we will see a need in NA for fresh genetics by the end of the decade.
I can understand a hesitation on his transfer though, considering Ongard doesn't appear to be moving to a breeding situation anytime soon...

Additional question, does Australia Zoo have any plans or desire to breed their girls? From what I understand they have a fairly decent complex and a few of their girls still are prime in reproductive age and will be for a few years yet. I haven't heard or found anything on this but figured if anyone knew if would be people on this thread!

 

[Zoofan15]

Sabai is of prime age to be transferred. He's not too large or mature, and I can think of a few NA facilities that could be willing to take him on until he is mature enough to enter a breeding position. He would be of incredible value, given that no doubt we will see a need in NA for fresh genetics by the end of the decade.
I can understand a hesitation on his transfer though, considering Ongard doesn't appear to be moving to a breeding situation anytime soon...

I fully agree. Sabai has had a decent grounding in that he’s experienced a range of social interactions including being mentored by two older bulls; and observing reproductive behaviours, such as bulls mounting cows.

Sabai would be an asset to the North American breeding programme and free up space at Dubbo for future breeding.

Additional question, does Australia Zoo have any plans or desire to breed their girls? From what I understand they have a fairly decent complex and a few of their girls still are prime in reproductive age and will be for a few years yet. I haven't heard or found anything on this but figured if anyone knew if would be people on this thread!

The last update we had was that plans to breed from the two older females (born 1999 and 2001) have been abandoned; with plans to focus on the two younger cows (born 2009 and 2014) going forward.

There’s been talk of Australia Zoo importing a bull since the import of the cows; but five years on and there’s been no updates on this happening. The zoo has recently moved to PC though, which could give them an incentive to import/breed.

Since the rest of the region holds Indian and Sri Lankan elephants, it’s a shame Australia Zoo imported Sumatran elephants imo. Their facility could have been a much greater asset to the region if they’d acted in support of the regional breeding programme for elephants we have in place. Their wasn’t much of a surplus to speak of in 2019; but even importing elephants from well represented European lines (as Sydney Zoo did) could open up the potential for exchanges in years to come.

 

[Swanson02]

I’ve heard nothing to suggest any exports will be taking place anytime soon. The obvious candidate for export is Sabai, who’s a full brother to Luk Chai and has no apparent application to the breeding programme. He’s of no relation to Ongard, so it surprises me he hasn’t already gone to North America. Potentially he could breed with Kanlaya, but so too could Gung (who’s a founder).

Potentially Monarto might consider importing cows from Europe if they don’t receive cows from Taronga/Dubbo, but I’d rather see the region make use of the cows we have. Our most represented cows have two (surviving) offspring each. That’s not a lot. We additionally have two viable founder cows (Pak Boon and Anjalee) who are unrepresented. Considering their genetic value, it makes sense to work with what we’ve got rather than bring more in.

I was told Luk Chai will sire the next cohort of calves at Werribee and then retire. All going well, he could potentially have six offspring across two cohorts, which is more than adequate representation. He’s proved a very patient bull with younger elephants, so I imagine they’ll be keen to retain him as a mentor once he’s retired from breeding.

Personally, I think the idea of prematurely retiring Thong Dee and Luk Chai from the breeding program due to "over-representation" is a major mistake. Have our Zoos not learned from Man Jai and previous calves how fickle things are with adolescent elephants!!! We don't even know yet if Anjalee is capable of naturally falling pregnant with her unusual cycles. I remember Auckland stating they were sending her to TWPZ to give her "the best opportunity" to breed, no guarantee. So with Thong Dee also retiring, we could potentially see no calves come out of TWPZ over the next 2-6 years.

I'm strongly in the "natural breeding intervals" camp, trying to squeeze as many offspring as possible out of a cow, considering statistically 50% will not survive to maturity. Unfortunately, the reality of our current track record is we will lose 1-2 of Melbourne's current cohort, likewise with any future cohorts. Thong Dee producing one more calf (which may or may not survive to maturity) is not that disastrous placement-wise. A female retained in the herd is obviously optimal but a male calf could be sent to Monarto or Werribee as a backup, retained at Dubbo, swapped with Sydney, or exported, plenty of options imo. If anything it's a monetary issue, our zoos don't want to fork out the money to house an extra elephant that will not provide any extra revenue. This itself is counterproductive considering, Monarto and Werribee are building these huge new facilities for large herds, that may only hold a handful of elephants in the future if the coordinator keeps retiring viable breeding elephants and the few calves that are produced inevitably don't survive.

This is a highly morbid concept but calves dying prematurely is likely beneficial for Zoos (especially for male calves). They get to enjoy the revenue spike in visitation an infant elephant brings, yet don't have to foot the bill of caring for an elephant for 10+ years. All whilst claiming it's helping the "breeding program", knowing the general public never really chases up the actual success of a breeding program. I know it's a morbid and an unempathetic concept, but I guarantee you some zoo managements have silently realised this.

Apologies for the angry rant but it annoys me how stupidly optimistic our zoos are, believing every animal will survive to 60+, premature deaths are inevitable so we need to overproduce to account for them.

 

[Zoofan15]

Personally, I think the idea of prematurely retiring Thong Dee and Luk Chai from the breeding program due to "over-representation" is a major mistake. Have our Zoos not learned from Man Jai and previous calves how fickle things are with adolescent elephants!!! We don't even know yet if Anjalee is capable of naturally falling pregnant with her unusual cycles. I remember Auckland stating they were sending her to TWPZ to give her "the best opportunity" to breed, no guarantee. So with Thong Dee also retiring, we could potentially see no calves come out of TWPZ over the next 2-6 years.

I'm strongly in the "natural breeding intervals" camp, trying to squeeze as many offspring as possible out of a cow, considering statistically 50% will not survive to maturity. Unfortunately, the reality of our current track record is we will lose 1-2 of Melbourne's current cohort, likewise with any future cohorts. Thong Dee producing one more calf (which may or may not survive to maturity) is not that disastrous placement-wise. A female retained in the herd is obviously optimal but a male calf could be sent to Monarto or Werribee as a backup, retained at Dubbo, swapped with Sydney, or exported, plenty of options imo. If anything it's a monetary issue, our zoos don't want to fork out the money to house an extra elephant that will not provide any extra revenue. This itself is counterproductive considering, Monarto and Werribee are building these huge new facilities for large herds, that may only hold a handful of elephants in the future if the coordinator keeps retiring viable breeding elephants and the few calves that are produced inevitably don't survive.

This is a highly morbid concept but calves dying prematurely is likely beneficial for Zoos (especially for male calves). They get to enjoy the revenue spike in visitation an infant elephant brings, yet don't have to foot the bill of caring for an elephant for 10+ years. All whilst claiming it's helping the "breeding program", knowing the general public never really chases up the actual success of a breeding program. I know it's a morbid and an unempathetic concept, but I guarantee you some zoo managements have silently realised this.

Apologies for the angry rant but it annoys me how stupidly optimistic our zoos are, believing every animal will survive to 60+, premature deaths are inevitable so we need to overproduce to account for them.

You make a lot of good points. Retiring Thong Dee from the breeding programme is an irreversible decision and while I accept Dubbo might not want to breed from her, I’ll be extremely disappointed if she’s not offered to Monarto Safari Park who would. She’s a subordinate cow with no genetic ties to Dubbo’s matriarchal herd. There’s no reason she couldn’t be transferred to Monarto and assimilate into their herd.

If Dubbo are considering retiring Thong Dee and Porntip (the latter doesn’t have a current breeding recommendation either), then I see no justification for bringing across Pak Boon. It would be preferable to send Pak Boon and Thong Dee to Monarto; and make use of Porntip, Anjalee and Kanlaya. Like you say, it’s unknown if Anjalee can conceive; and Porntip’s matrilineal line is currently dependent on the survival of her five year old daughter to the age of 14 years (the current plan being for her to produce a calf at that age).

The decision to retire Luk Chai after the next cohort of calves at Werribee doesn’t bother me because it’s a reversible decision. He’ll likely remain on site and they could elect to breed from in 10 years, 20 years etc if they don’t feel his offspring has provided sufficient representation (i.e. if only half of them survive). He turns 15 years old this year and is past the EEHV danger zone. In the event he died, there’s also Sabai as a back up.

Werribee are apparently aiming for a five year birth interval between their current cohort of calves and the next. The cows were beginning to cycle again late last year and while it’d be my preference too to see a natural three year birth interval; it’s better than Dubbo, who have previously had seven or eight year gaps and will be looking at similar between Kanlaya and Porntip’s next calf (if she breeds again).

 

[Tiger91]

Taronga have really sat on the back burner with breeding elephants.
Thong dee should ideally be bred pathi harn. She already has two sons with gung and an offspring with pathi harn would mix up the genetics. Which in the event a son is born, would potentially have more application than a son with two full siblings with one having already produce offspring.

With the current state of AI we really shouldn't have elephants being confined to the bulls on site. With breeding potential in the future being based on what is available in the country. Horse and cattle industries are utilising sex selected semen, and while not 100% it gives a 90 to 95% percent chance of female offspring. Which should enable zoos to utilise this tech enabling greater genetic diversity and options.

 

[Jambo]

Taronga have really sat on the back burner with breeding elephants.
Thong dee should ideally be bred pathi harn. She already has two sons with gung and an offspring with pathi harn would mix up the genetics. Which in the event a son is born, would potentially have more application than a son with two full siblings with one having already produce offspring.

With the current state of AI we really shouldn't have elephants being confined to the bulls on site. With breeding potential in the future being based on what is available in the country. Horse and cattle industries are utilising sex selected semen, and while not 100% it gives a 90 to 95% percent chance of female offspring. Which should enable zoos to utilise this tech enabling greater genetic diversity and options.

I agree re. Thong Dee. With Man Jai's recent death there should be more desire to breed from Pathi Harn (being one of Bong Su's last two offspring remaining in the region). Anjalee and Thong Dee are theoretically his only options at Dubbo and in the event Anjalee fails to conceive, Thong Dee would be his only realistic chance of ever breeding within the region.

AI is quite expensive though and is a particularly 'invasive' procedure that most zoos are looking to avoid nowadays. In the past, it's only been used when absolutely required - Bong Su was a behavioral non breeder, so Melbourne's only hope of getting their cows pregnant was via AI.

 

[Zoofan15]

Taronga have really sat on the back burner with breeding elephants.
Thong dee should ideally be bred pathi harn. She already has two sons with gung and an offspring with pathi harn would mix up the genetics. Which in the event a son is born, would potentially have more application than a son with two full siblings with one having already produce offspring.

With the current state of AI we really shouldn't have elephants being confined to the bulls on site. With breeding potential in the future being based on what is available in the country. Horse and cattle industries are utilising sex selected semen, and while not 100% it gives a 90 to 95% percent chance of female offspring. Which should enable zoos to utilise this tech enabling greater genetic diversity and options.

I agree re. Thong Dee. With Man Jai's recent death there should be more desire to breed from Pathi Harn (being one of Bong Su's last two offspring remaining in the region). Anjalee and Thong Dee are theoretically his only options at Dubbo and in the event Anjalee fails to conceive, Thong Dee would be his only realistic chance of ever breeding within the region.

AI is quite expensive though and is a particularly 'invasive' procedure that most zoos are looking to avoid nowadays. In the past, it's only been used when absolutely required - Bong Su was a behavioral non breeder, so Melbourne's only hope of getting their cows pregnant was via AI.

When I spoke to the keepers at Melbourne, they all mentioned the focus will be on natural breeding where possible within the region. Aside from the practical component of being cheaper etc. it’s preferable to be breeding and raising elephants in socially normal herds that mirror the wild setting as closely as possible. This includes young bulls observing the breeding bull mounting cows etc.

With multiple avenues for using proven bulls in the region, I would be surprised to see a return to AI in the future.

 

[Zoofan15]

There’s no possibility of African elephants returning to the region for the foreseeable.

There’d previously been speculation that Monarto Safari Park could import them in the future; but that can now be ruled out given their commitment to Asian elephants and the numerous other projects they have lined up. Same goes for Werribee and Dubbo.

Monarto Safari Park holding African elephants would have worked best with the support of at least one additional holder. Sydney Zoo and Australia Zoo theoretically could have collaborated with Monarto on a joint import; but did not, weakening support for establishing a breeding population of this species in Australia.

Sydney zoo is hard pressed holding asian elephants. They would not have the space for African elephants.
Australia zoo would have been a better option.

Sydney Zoo could have accommodated two bachelor African bulls with the space they have. It depends how much room they wanted to dedicate to elephants. They’ll soon be the only city zoo in the region holding elephants; but I don’t imagine they’ll be phasing out anytime soon.

Australia Zoo could have certainly held a breeding herd of African elephants and been a great support to Monarto; however, it was clear from the outset that they wanted contact animals and female Asian elephants are better suited to this than their African counterparts (or bulls of either species), so it was really a non starter for them.

As much as I’d like to see African elephants, I’m really excited about the unprecedented holding capacity we’ll soon have for Asian elephants across the three open range zoos. It’s the dawn of an exciting new era.

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

I do think it's high time that there was a ban on keeping elephants in small groupings and small enclosures.

 

[Zoofan15]

I do think it's high time that there was a ban on keeping elephants in small groupings and small enclosures.

I think public pressure has for the most part achieved this, with three of the remaining city zoos working towards a phase out. Taronga could potentially follow in the next couple of years.

The small groupings in the past have at least partly been influenced by a lack of breeding success. Auckland and Perth Zoo both attempted to grow their herds through breeding; and Melbourne and Taronga have both had behavioural non-breeders in the past.

Keeping elephants in large multigenerational herds is widely recognised as beneficial for the welfare and it’s a welcome and progressive move. I’m kind of on the fence regarding bachelor bulls in city zoos. They have different social requirements to cows; but for the most part, I think they’re better accomodated at the open range zoos.

 

[Tiger91]

I do think it's high time that there was a ban on keeping elephants in small groupings and small enclosures.

Banning small groupings makes it hard for zoos that want to be bachelor facilities. But yes small enclosures should be on the way out.

 

[Tiger91]

I

I’m kind of on the fence regarding bachelor bulls in city zoos. They have different social requirements to cows; but for the most part, I think they’re better accomodated at the open range zoos.

If they keep them occupied and give them enough exercise schedules, its realistically no different to humans living in apartments. We aren't made for it, we are made for long distance walking etc. Elephants in to small enclosures get all the same disease and metabolic issues when kept in small enclosures with out enough stimulation or exercise, ironically as humans do when in similar situations.

 

[Zoofan15]

If they keep them occupied and give them enough exercise schedules, its realistically no different to humans living in apartments. We aren't made for it, we are made for long distance walking etc. Elephants in to small enclosures get all the same disease and metabolic issues when kept in small enclosures with out enough stimulation or exercise, ironically as humans do when in similar situations.

The standards elephants are kept in within city zoos are vastly different from that of the 20th century. Many elephants previously developed arthritis from standing on the concrete floors of elephant houses; with innovations such as floor mats and sand mounds addressing these issues in the modern age. Melbourne Zoo, which has three paddocks the elephants can rotate between is an excellent example of a well stimulated herd.

That said, the open range zoos of course represent a further advancement in welfare. It’ll be particularly interesting to see Melbourne’s herd function as close to a wild herd as possible within Werribee’s complex, making decisions and choosing how to run their lives independent of direction from their keepers.

On that note, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Kulab assume the matriarch role at Werribee given the demands on the leader of the herd within this new environment. The keepers I spoke to said she’s demonstrated ambition and leadership within Melbourne’s herd and Mek Kepah could well be content to relinquish the responsibility.

 

[The Sleepy Hippo]

Banning small groupings makes it hard for zoos that want to be bachelor facilities. But yes small enclosures should be on the way out.

I agree that Bachelor groupings are definitely needed, but in the wild bachelor elephants will still time to time make contact and socialise with larger herds, and keeping them in separate facilities to a breeding/ matriachal herd would limit/prevent that from occurring.

I guess from an ethical and welfare perspective, considering the immense intelligence of the species (which rivals our own) I feel they should be allowed greater independence in their lives. With three Open Range Zoos having/building capacity to house larger groups in large enclosures, I do feel that it is near time that other facilities are forced to expand their enclosures to Open range size, or surrender their animals.

I could envision Werribee in the (more distant) future could also upgrade their lower Savannah fencing and allow bachelor elephants to roam there, or have even a fenced path across the top of the zoo from their new home all the way to the Lower-Savannah, if such new fencing were installed.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree that Bachelor groupings are definitely needed, but in the wild bachelor elephants will still time to time make contact and socialise with larger herds, and keeping them in separate facilities to a breeding/ matriachal herd would limit/prevent that from occurring.

I guess from an ethical and welfare perspective, considering the immense intelligence of the species (which rivals our own) I feel they should be allowed greater independence in their lives. With three Open Range Zoos having/building capacity to house larger groups in large enclosures, I do feel that it is near time that other facilities are forced to expand their enclosures to Open range size, or surrender their animals.

I could envision Werribee in the (more distant) future could also upgrade their lower Savannah fencing and allow bachelor elephants to roam there, or have even a fenced path across the top of the zoo from their new home all the way to the Lower-Savannah, if such new fencing were installed.

It’s clear Luk Chai benefits from the interactions he has with Melbourne’s matriarchal herd. He’s met the calves in recent weeks and enjoys spending time with the cows. Prior to this, he enjoyed a close friendship with Man Jai.

Werribee’s complex will have a capacity of up to 40 elephants. This would obviously be dependent on the number of cohesive social groupings; but with five large paddocks and various holding yards, they’ll easily be able to accomodate a number of bulls, including those bred on site. It’ll be of immense benefit to all elephants concerned to have such a wide variety of options for social interaction. A vast improvement on Bong Su and Mek Kepah living in a 1.1 pair!