Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2024

[Tiger91]

All good points. Thong Dee last gave birth in 2016, so we’re fast approaching the upper limit with regards to sterility caused by long birth intervals. It’d be incredibly short-sighted to lose a viable founder cow from the region; especially not knowing the future with regards to EEHV. It can affect elephants up to 15 years and only one of her five descendants is close to moving into the ’safe’ age bracket.

I also think it’s a great shame that space is limiting the reproductive potential of Dubbo’s herd. Two viable cows really should be sent to Monarto (as opposed to a non-viable cow such as Tang Mo), where good use can be made of them. This will leave them with three viable founder cows, a non viable cow and a juvenile cow.

If taronga send tang Mo, park boon and thong dee to Monaro. They will no longer be limited by space. Even by there current holdings they would be able to start breeding up again. As they would only have 3 cows and 3 bulls.
If western plains was to redesign there elephants yards they would have plenty of space for future expansion. And it sounds like they have thought where extra space could come from with the mention of using the zebra enclosure for them down the line.

 

[Zoofan15]

While true, Dubbo will be looking to build a cohesive herd they can through into the future with. Anjalee kanlaya and porntip all still have breeding applications, are cohesive and already act as a cohesive herd. They are the perfect setup allowing Dubbo to breed a multigenerational herd.

Monarto receiving pakboon and thong dee gives them two founder females that they can breed with to incorporate and hopefully start a multigenerational herd. Tang Mo acting as an experienced aunt, this gives them there experienced females which will make breeding easier.

Monarto are importing 4 possibly 5 cows and a bull. Two of the cows are possibly able to breed. With 5 paddocks of memory being built. I dont see them needing to stage when the cows arrive. As they have the paddock space to accomodate multiple herds. Pakboon, tang mo and thong dee with form a herd. Which we know, as they have been one before. While the other two females can be put together to form a bond with eventual mixing of both herds done. If the paddocks are large enough there shouldn't be an issue as the females will have the space to seperate.

If taronga send tang Mo, park boon and thong dee to Monaro. They will no longer be limited by space. Even by there current holdings they would be able to start breeding up again. As they would only have 3 cows and 3 bulls.
If western plains was to redesign there elephants yards they would have plenty of space for future expansion. And it sounds like they have thought where extra space could come from with the mention of using the zebra enclosure for them down the line.

First of all, there’s no indication Taronga/Dubbo are sending three cows. That was previous speculation and we’ve since had a media report state two cows will be transferring (not three).

Secondly, while theoretically they could receive multiple cows, this is not how they’re planning to undertake the introduction process. If you bring all the cows in at once, you put them on an even footing; each has a chance to establish herself and feel comfortable in her environment. That’s where conflict comes in.

The keepers (who have expert knowledge) are clearly engineering the hierarchy by bringing in Burma several months before Permai. Permai will be joining Burma’s herd; not throwing them in together and putting the onus on them to figure it out.

This is the plan for Monarto’s complex:

 

[Tiger91]

First of all, there’s no indication Taronga/Dubbo are sending three cows. That was previous speculation and we’ve since had a media report state two cows will be transferring (not three).

Secondly, while theoretically they could receive multiple cows, this is not how they’re planning to undertake the introduction process. If you bring all the cows in at once, you put them on an even footing; each has a chance to establish herself and feel comfortable in her environment. That’s where conflict comes in.

True the article does only say 2 cows.

I never said chuck them in and see how it goes. I said there is no need to stagger their arrival. They have 5 paddocks. 1 for the bull, 1 for Burma with the introduction of permai and then another could easily house the taronga girls, while they all settle in. Then they can work on integrating the females into the same herd.
However if the paddocks are large enough integration will go easier as the females will be able to seperate and form there own groups. With enough space to down play the need for fights. However there is 5 paddocks so even if fights occur there is room to seperate. With 3 paddocks in use and two for resting.

The keepers (who have expert knowledge) are clearly engineering the hierarchy by bringing in Burma several months before Permai. Permai will be joining Burma’s herd; not throwing them in together and putting the onus on them to figure it out.

I have no doubt they have already thought of a plan, especially working with receiving elephants from multiple zoos. However with 5 paddocks they could theoretically have all elephants on site at once with more then enough room to seperate them. Give them time to settle in and then work on integrating them in together.

 

[marmolady]

It's not just about paddocks, but indoor barn space. We don't know how the spaces will be configured, and how much will be 100% completed at the time the first elephant (Burma) is brought in.

 

[Tiger91]

It's not just about paddocks, but indoor barn space. We don't know how the spaces will be configured, and how much will be 100% completed at the time the first elephant (Burma) is brought in.

True, however I would imagine all renovation/building will be done on the barn before the elephants arrive. I would doubt they would be trying to acclimatise elephants with active renovations taking place.

 

[Zoofan15]

True the article does only say 2 cows.

I never said chuck them in and see how it goes. I said there is no need to stagger their arrival. They have 5 paddocks. 1 for the bull, 1 for Burma with the introduction of permai and then another could easily house the taronga girls, while they all settle in. Then they can work on integrating the females into the same herd.
However if the paddocks are large enough integration will go easier as the females will be able to seperate and form there own groups. With enough space to down play the need for fights. However there is 5 paddocks so even if fights occur there is room to seperate. With 3 paddocks in use and two for resting.



I have no doubt they have already thought of a plan, especially working with receiving elephants from multiple zoos. However with 5 paddocks they could theoretically have all elephants on site at once with more then enough room to seperate them. Give them time to settle in and then work on integrating them in together.

You’ve missed the point of my post. By having all four cows arrive at the same time, it places them on an even footing. The zoo don’t want that. If you have one elephant (Burma) arrive several months before the other (Permai), you’ve given her a huge advantage. She’ll know the lie of the land (literally), which is key to her acting in the role as matriarch. This might sound like a bad thing (disadvantaging one female over the other); but it assists the elephants in forming a hierarchy and spares them the need to contest this over a more pro-longed process.

Once those two cows are settled, you bring in the next two. Those cows (ideally subordinate cows) come in with each other’s support; but rather than all four starting from scratch, those two cows enter an established herd. They know what the score is from the start (i.e. they’re not in charge) and the zoo therefore stands the best possible chance of them accepting that position.

True, however I would imagine all renovation/building will be done on the barn before the elephants arrive. I would doubt they would be trying to acclimatise elephants with active renovations taking place.

Again, no. The information we’ve received is the complex (including outdoor areas) will be completed in stages.

 

[Jambo]

Moving Anjalee to Monaro I dont think they would even consider. She is going to be the next crowd puller through her offspring. Anna they literally have only just integrated her within dubs herd. Where she has good social bonds with kanlaya and porntip.

While Anjalee brings value to the Dubbo herd via her relationship with Kanlaya; Tang Mo similarly dotes on calves and would surely fulfill this role just as well. Anjalee is a valuable founder cow and Monarto could maximise use of her bloodline. The decision may be determined by how far along her pregnancy is (assuming she can conceive). Theoretically she may have a calf by late 2025, but if conception isn’t achieved until next year, this may be a game changer.

Re. Anjalee, I don't really see any case where she heads to Monarto. Obviously she would have to fail to conceive in the meantime (as a pregnancy and eventual calf would disturb such a move), which is a possibility imo. But then again, she wouldn't really provide anymore value to the Monarto herd compared to a cow like Tang Mo. The only situation I see Anjalee being transferred is if Burma struggles to maintain the matriarchal role, and they deem reuniting her with Anjalee may help.

It's difficult to predict, but based on Burma and Permai's personalities I think we may end up seeing Pak Boon heading to Monarto joined likely by Thong Dee.

Whether Anjalee breeds may also be a contributing factor as to the move too, ie. Pak Boon might be more valuable to Dubbo's program if so, and therefore a Thong Dee/Tang Mo move to Monarto might work better.

 

[Zoofan15]

Re. Anjalee, I don't really see any case where she heads to Monarto. Obviously she would have to fail to conceive in the meantime (as a pregnancy and eventual calf would disturb such a move), which is a possibility imo. But then again, she wouldn't really provide anymore value to the Monarto herd compared to a cow like Tang Mo. The only situation I see Anjalee being transferred is if Burma struggles to maintain the matriarchal role, and they deem reuniting her with Anjalee may help.

It's difficult to predict, but based on Burma and Permai's personalities I think we may end up seeing Pak Boon heading to Monarto joined likely by Thong Dee.

Whether Anjalee breeds may also be a contributing factor as to the move too, ie. Pak Boon might be more valuable to Dubbo's program if so, and therefore a Thong Dee/Tang Mo move to Monarto might work better.

Whether Anjalee can conceive is the great unknown. Her failure to conceive through AI was partly attributed to her irregular cycles, which will be mitigated be having bulls on site to cover her at a moment’s notice. I really hope she can conceive as she’d be a valuable addition to the breeding programme. If she proves fertile, then she could potentially provide Monarto with a second founder line; but if after two years, she’s still not pregnant, then yes, she’d be of little more use to them than Tang Mo in that regard.

Since pregnancy hormones can affect behaviour, it’ll be interesting to see how much stock is put into that versus the baseline personalities of the cows involved. I’m tempted to say a non-pregnant dominant cow like Pak Boon would prove more disruptive than a pregnant subordinate; but it’s an interesting point to consider as it’d be preferable for Thong Dee to conceive prior to transfer. Aside from avoiding further delays, she could breed with Pathi Harn and potentially provide Monarto with a mother/daughter duo unrelated to Putra Mas. Worst case scenario (a son is conceived), she could bring an additional bull line to Monarto.

Burma and Anjalee’s prior relationship would be a huge advantage towards establishing a cohesive herd around Burma as matriarch. Combined with the subordinate cows (Permai and Thong Dee) and this would be the perfect fit imo. If Anjalee’s reproductive journey allows, I believe they’d consider this option; but if not, Pak Boon would be the strongest second candidate (unless her personality is assessed disruptive).

Also to consider is what Dubbo will be left with. Leaving them with a non-viable cow (Tang Mo) and two 32 year old cows (Porntip and Pak Boon) is ideal as they haven’t got the space to breed either cow more than twice - perfectly tying with with their age. Thong Dee and Anjalee are younger and would be put to much better use at a facility that can breed them multiple times; while Dubbo concentrate on two older cows and Kanlaya (the future). Porntip and Pak Boon could breed once at the same time (with Porntip then retired); and then Pak Boon could breed again for the final time, alongside Kanlaya.

 

[Luke899]

7News revealed yesterday that it is confirmed that another two female elephants will arrive at Monarto from Taronga Zoo. It is yet to be seen which elephants will make the trip. Keepers will first monitor the social situation between Burma, Permai, and Putra Mas, before making a decision on the other two elephants, to make sure the group has an optimal social outcome (and potentially reproductive outcome with Putra Mas). This will bring the South Australian herd to a solid 5 members.

1.0 Putra Mas (1989)
0.1 Burma (1982)
0.1 Permai (1989)
0.1 X
0.1 X

News from the MSP discussion regarding two extra elephants confirmed to be moving from Taronga to Monarto!

 

[Zoofan15]

News from the MSP discussion regarding two extra elephants confirmed to be moving from Taronga to Monarto!

Thanks for letting us know. This has already been mentioned further up thread (following on from @marmolady announcing it in the Monaro news thread).

Burma is arriving late 2024 and Putra Mas and Permai are arrived in the first half of 2025. We’re predicting Taronga/Dubbo will transfer two additional females circa 2026 (see discussion above).

 

[Tiger91]

Re. Anjalee, I don't really see any case where she heads to Monarto. Obviously she would have to fail to conceive in the meantime (as a pregnancy and eventual calf would disturb such a move), which is a possibility imo. But then again, she wouldn't really provide anymore value to the Monarto herd compared to a cow like Tang Mo. The only situation I see Anjalee being transferred is if Burma struggles to maintain the matriarchal role, and they deem reuniting her with Anjalee may help.

Im with your there, unless they have deemed her non viable for breeding and move her to make space. I can't see a scenario where she moves, moving her to Burma when she has a stronger bond and has finally assimilated into a breeding matriarchal herd. Would be elephant husbandry going backwards.

It's difficult to predict, but based on Burma and Permai's personalities I think we may end up seeing Pak Boon heading to Monarto joined likely by Thong Dee.

Whether Anjalee breeds may also be a contributing factor as to the move too, ie. Pak Boon might be more valuable to Dubbo's program if so, and therefore a Thong Dee/Tang Mo move to Monarto might work better.

It will be interesting to see who they send. Most likely is Pakboon and tang mo. However I wouldn't be surprised in thong de goes or is added to the list with 3 sent. What ever they end up with will reveal what they plan to do going forward with breeding. Once decisions are made I think we will see multiple females bred again.

 

[Zoofan15]

Im with your there, unless they have deemed her non viable for breeding and move her to make space. I can't see a scenario where she moves, moving her to Burma when she has a stronger bond and has finally assimilated into a breeding matriarchal herd. Would be elephant husbandry going backwards.



It will be interesting to see who they send. Most likely is Pakboon and tang mo. However I wouldn't be surprised in thong de goes or is added to the list with 3 sent. What ever they end up with will reveal what they plan to do going forward with breeding. Once decisions are made I think we will see multiple females bred again.

It’s ultimately a really exciting opportunity for all three zoos. Taronga can phase out of elephants as planned and work towards a redevelopment of their exhibit; Monarto can found a multigenerational herd; and Dubbo can streamline their herd towards a more manageable number of cows.

With regards to achieving the last two goals, I struggle to envisage Taronga/Dubbo not sending two viable cows. They don’t have the capacity to breed from all five of their viable cows, so it’s an absolute waste to turn down an opportunity to transfer two of them out. I imagine they’d want to retain Tang Mo. She’s a subordinate cow with strong maternal instincts. She’d boost herd numbers, without any responsibility to breed from her.

Pak Boon may well go to Monarto, as there’s no guarantee she’d assimilate into Dubbo’s herd. She’s never met Anjalee before and their integration would have the highest potential for conflict. In the event Anjalee remained at Dubbo, transferring out Pak Boon and Thong Dee could well be the best move. Otherwise, I’d maintain Thong Dee and Anjalee going to Monarto is the best outcome; bearing in mind Porntip, Pak Boon and Tang Mo would likely make the adjustment to living together again with ease. Porntip and Pak Boon had a close friendship at Taronga.

 

[Yassa]

You’ve missed the point of my post. By having all four cows arrive at the same time, it places them on an even footing. The zoo don’t want that. If you have one elephant (Burma) arrive several months before the other (Permai), you’ve given her a huge advantage. She’ll know the lie of the land (literally), which is key to her acting in the role as matriarch. This might sound like a bad thing (disadvantaging one female over the other); but it assists the elephants in forming a hierarchy and spares them the need to contest this over a more pro-longed process.

Once those two cows are settled, you bring in the next two. Those cows (ideally subordinate cows) come in with each other’s support; but rather than all four starting from scratch, those two cows enter an established herd. They know what the score is from the start (i.e. they’re not in charge) and the zoo therefore stands the best possible chance of them accepting that position.
.

If this is really what the elephant keepers/ managers in Monarto think then it shows their profund lack of experience with elephant introductions.

I am following elephants in Europe since more then 20 years and I can tell you, there is NO WAY humans can influence which elephant will become the matriarch and who stays subordinate. What happens when unrelated, adult females are introduced to each other is pretty much unpredictable and can certainly not be influenced by the time one female has spend at a new facility before the second one joins. The newcomer may become dominant right away, or the plan may work for a few weeks/ months before the newcomer challenges the one who was first to arrive. Females who were always subordinates may strive for dominance once moved to a new zoo. Don‘t forget that females like Anjalee and Tang Mo who have been subordinate in their groups so far have matured and continue to do so, and they would not be the first former subordinate, younger but now grown females to take their chance after a transfer and strive for dominance. That is not a rare thing to happen.

Keepers can surely try to condition elephants to behave friendly towards each other by monitoring their interactions and rewarding them for friendly behavoir with food, but that method has limits. The hierarcy is something elephants need to work out for themselves.

Lots of interesting things will happen in the Australian elephant groups in the next years; you won‘t believe me now but you will see. The elephants will surprise you. And they will show you how incredibly complex they are, and that more often then not different matrilines cannot live together.

 

[Zorro]

If this is really what the elephant keepers/ managers in Monarto think then it shows their profund lack of experience with elephant introductions.

I am following elephants in Europe since more then 20 years and I can tell you, there is NO WAY humans can influence which elephant will become the matriarch and who stays subordinate. What happens when unrelated, adult females are introduced to each other is pretty much unpredictable and can certainly not be influenced by the time one female has spend at a new facility before the second one joins. The newcomer may become dominant right away, or the plan may work for a few weeks/ months before the newcomer challenges the one who was first to arrive. Females who were always subordinates may strive for dominance once moved to a new zoo. Don‘t forget that females like Anjalee and Tang Mo who have been subordinate in their groups so far have matured and continue to do so, and they would not be the first former subordinate, younger but now grown females to take their chance after a transfer and strive for dominance. That is not a rare thing to happen.

Keepers can surely try to condition elephants to behave friendly towards each other by monitoring their interactions and rewarding them for friendly behavoir with food, but that method has limits. The hierarcy is something elephants need to work out for themselves.

Lots of interesting things will happen in the Australian elephant groups in the next years; you won‘t believe me now but you will see. The elephants will surprise you. And they will show you how incredibly complex they are, and that more often then not different matrilines cannot live together.

I would have to agree!

 

[Jambo]

If this is really what the elephant keepers/ managers in Monarto think then it shows their profund lack of experience with elephant introductions.

I am following elephants in Europe since more then 20 years and I can tell you, there is NO WAY humans can influence which elephant will become the matriarch and who stays subordinate. What happens when unrelated, adult females are introduced to each other is pretty much unpredictable and can certainly not be influenced by the time one female has spend at a new facility before the second one joins. The newcomer may become dominant right away, or the plan may work for a few weeks/ months before the newcomer challenges the one who was first to arrive. Females who were always subordinates may strive for dominance once moved to a new zoo. Don‘t forget that females like Anjalee and Tang Mo who have been subordinate in their groups so far have matured and continue to do so, and they would not be the first former subordinate, younger but now grown females to take their chance after a transfer and strive for dominance. That is not a rare thing to happen.

Keepers can surely try to condition elephants to behave friendly towards each other by monitoring their interactions and rewarding them for friendly behavoir with food, but that method has limits. The hierarcy is something elephants need to work out for themselves.

Lots of interesting things will happen in the Australian elephant groups in the next years; you won‘t believe me now but you will see. The elephants will surprise you. And they will show you how incredibly complex they are, and that more often then not different matrilines cannot live together.

Can certainly agree. I think in the case of Monarto, they obviously can't do much about the fact that there may be potential clashes between females with the opening of the new complex. Whilst you can never know with animals, there's a strong chances any of Taronga's 'subordinate females' could pace for a dominant position in a herd with two socially disadvantaged females.

I myself have heard of cases where issues have risen after years of the elephants successfully getting along, so it's also not much to say this only occurs initially. Elephants are complex animals as you say, so much like humans, things can change quickly especially with their personalities. For example, I know Tang Mo has become much more dominant in recent years (following the removal of matriarch, Porntip to Dubbo). I have little doubt she'd resist pursuing the opportunity if given at a facility like Monarto.

It's also interesting you mention matrilines not getting along as from what I've seen, neither Porntip or Thong Dee at Dubbo appear to be close with one another. Especially if Thong Dee doesn't breed again (or at least at Dubbo) she has little to no value in their herd, so would be a prime candidate for Monarto.

Splitting of herds is inevitable nowadays as matrilines grow, and eventually grow apart. There was a lot of thinking put into the cows when they first came to Australia, to decide which zoo they would go to and who with, and it seems Taronga are now in a similar position two decades later.

 

[Zoofan15]

If this is really what the elephant keepers/ managers in Monarto think then it shows their profund lack of experience with elephant introductions.

I am following elephants in Europe since more then 20 years and I can tell you, there is NO WAY humans can influence which elephant will become the matriarch and who stays subordinate. What happens when unrelated, adult females are introduced to each other is pretty much unpredictable and can certainly not be influenced by the time one female has spend at a new facility before the second one joins. The newcomer may become dominant right away, or the plan may work for a few weeks/ months before the newcomer challenges the one who was first to arrive. Females who were always subordinates may strive for dominance once moved to a new zoo. Don‘t forget that females like Anjalee and Tang Mo who have been subordinate in their groups so far have matured and continue to do so, and they would not be the first former subordinate, younger but now grown females to take their chance after a transfer and strive for dominance. That is not a rare thing to happen.

Keepers can surely try to condition elephants to behave friendly towards each other by monitoring their interactions and rewarding them for friendly behavoir with food, but that method has limits. The hierarcy is something elephants need to work out for themselves.

Lots of interesting things will happen in the Australian elephant groups in the next years; you won‘t believe me now but you will see. The elephants will surprise you. And they will show you how incredibly complex they are, and that more often then not different matrilines cannot live together.

Can certainly agree. I think in the case of Monarto, they obviously can't do much about the fact that there may be potential clashes between females with the opening of the new complex. Whilst you can never know with animals, there's a strong chances any of Taronga's 'subordinate females' could pace for a dominant position in a herd with two socially disadvantaged females.

I myself have heard of cases where issues have risen after years of the elephants successfully getting along, so it's also not much to say this only occurs initially. Elephants are complex animals as you say, so much like humans, things can change quickly especially with their personalities. For example, I know Tang Mo has become much more dominant in recent years (following the removal of matriarch, Porntip to Dubbo). I have little doubt she'd resist pursuing the opportunity if given at a facility like Monarto.

It's also interesting you mention matrilines not getting along as from what I've seen, neither Porntip or Thong Dee at Dubbo appear to be close with one another. Especially if Thong Dee doesn't breed again (or at least at Dubbo) she has little to no value in their herd, so would be a prime candidate for Monarto.

Splitting of herds is inevitable nowadays as matrilines grow, and eventually grow apart. There was a lot of thinking put into the cows when they first came to Australia, to decide which zoo they would go to and who with, and it seems Taronga are now in a similar position two decades later.

Thanks for sharing your insight @Yassa.

The zoos involved are certainly facing a very difficult task in integrating unfamiliar elephants. Unlike Europe and North America, which have been breeding elephants for decades and in some facilities, are able to replicate the natural social order by housing a herd derived from a single matriline; that’s not a luxury we’re even close to achieving as a region. We have a legacy of older (non breeding cows), who have lived their entire adult lives in pairs or small groups; as well as the more recent Thai imports.

Long term, breeding will see multigenerational herds develop from these imports (Dokkoon’s line is currently the most progressive); but for now, we have no choice to work with what we’ve got. I know Auckland have had challenges with introducing at least two pairs of cows over their century of holding elephants; and with Dubbo/Monarto working with a total of seven unrelated cows, these challenges will be amplified.

You raise an interesting point @Yassa that conflicts can arise between matrilines, even long term; and so Werribee’s herd will be an interesting one to watch. For now, they appear a close knit and cohesive herd; but socially, there’s clearly a strong bond between Kulab and Num Oi; and Dokkoon and Mali (mother and daughter), which would surely be how the herd is split down the line if such issues arose.

 

[Tiger91]

You raise an interesting point @Yassa that conflicts can arise between matrilines, even long term; and so Werribee’s herd will be an interesting one to watch. For now, they appear a close knit and cohesive herd; but socially, there’s clearly a strong bond between Kulab and Num Oi; and Dokkoon and Mali (mother and daughter), which would surely be how the herd is split down the line if such issues arose.

Matrilines not getting along is not something I think Werribee will suffer to badly with. Large exhibits will enable females to split of into there smaller matrilines like they would in the wild. Naturally elephants have a fission/fusion matrilineal structure which large exhibits allow for. Small zoo exhibits have traditionally seen matrilines clash due to the inability for them to seperate out when needed in limited space. Asian elephants display this to a greater degree then africans with there herds often being much much smaller. But also being much more social. With matrilineal splitting occurring at much greater degrees from what I've read.
If you look at elephant sanctuaries in Asia. Even when unrelated females are kept together. In the ones where there is adequate room. The females will all live together but split of into there own smaller groups. We seen that occurring at taronga even with the small exhibit. When thong dee and tang mo with thong dees calves would seperate of into there own little group. While porntip and pakboon and calves could been seen at times as there own little group.

Monarto having 5 decently sized exhibits is likely to see a similar pattern occur. While yes the females will live together (hopefully) they will form there own groupings within the herd and if the exhibits large enough will split into seperate groupings that inhabit the same space.

 

[Zoofan15]

Matrilines not getting along is not something I think Werribee will suffer to badly with. Large exhibits will enable females to split of into there smaller matrilines like they would in the wild. Naturally elephants have a fission/fusion matrilineal structure which large exhibits allow for. Small zoo exhibits have traditionally seen matrilines clash due to the inability for them to seperate out when needed in limited space. Asian elephants display this to a greater degree then africans with there herds often being much much smaller. But also being much more social. With matrilineal splitting occurring at much greater degrees from what I've read.
If you look at elephant sanctuaries in Asia. Even when unrelated females are kept together. In the ones where there is adequate room. The females will all live together but split of into there own smaller groups. We seen that occurring at taronga even with the small exhibit. When thong dee and tang mo with thong dees calves would seperate of into there own little group. While porntip and pakboon and calves could been seen at times as there own little group.

Monarto having 5 decently sized exhibits is likely to see a similar pattern occur. While yes the females will live together (hopefully) they will form there own groupings within the herd and if the exhibits large enough will split into seperate groupings that inhabit the same space.

I agree the large paddocks (both at Werribee and Monarto) will be useful in enabling the elephants to seek time away from each other as opposed to cramped paddocks in small city zoos, where conflict is inevitable and reoccurring.

Melbourne’s keepers believe Kulab is the most likely successor to Mek Kepah as matriarch. Kulab is the heaviest female and demonstrates the most drive to take on the role of matriarch. They said the transfer of the herd to Werribee could even bring about this change, especially if Mek Kepah is willing to concede her duty. Dokkoon is older and has the largest family unit; but Zoos Victoria are fortunate in that she’s shown little to no inclination to assume a leadership role in the herd.

While unrelated, Kulab and Num-Oi have formed what the keepers refer to as a family unit, along with Num-Oi’s calf, Kati. For now, Melbourne’s herd appear content; both as a cohesive herd and breaking off into sub-groups of Dokkoon/Mali; and Kulab/Num-Oi. The calves (and Mek Kepah) transit between these groups with Aiyara/Roi-Yim and Aiyara/Kati being the most frequent combinations observed on my visits. Aiyara is a delight to watch and very interactive with all herd members.

 

[Tiger91]

I agree the large paddocks (both at Werribee and Monarto) will be useful in enabling the elephants to seek time away from each other as opposed to cramped paddocks in small city zoos, where conflict is inevitable and reoccurring.

Melbourne’s keepers believe Kulab is the most likely successor to Mek Kepah as matriarch. Kulab is the heaviest female and demonstrates the most drive to take on the role of matriarch. They said the transfer of the herd to Werribee could even bring about this change, especially if Mek Kepah is willing to concede her duty. Dokkoon is older and has the largest family unit; but Zoos Victoria are fortunate in that she’s shown little to no inclination to assume a leadership role in the herd.

While unrelated, Kulab and Num-Oi have formed what the keepers refer to as a family unit, along with Num-Oi’s calf, Kati. For now, Melbourne’s herd appear content; both as a cohesive herd and breaking off into sub-groups of Dokkoon/Mali; and Kulab/Num-Oi. The calves (and Mek Kepah) transit between these groups with Aiyara/Roi-Yim and Aiyara/Kati being the most frequent combinations observed on my visits. Aiyara is a delight to watch and very interactive with all herd members.

I imagine as we transfer over to the larger sites we will see Melbournes herd still function as a herd. But having break away factions that spend time together and away from each other. Which in an of it self is a good thing. It makes better viewing if the elephants are spread out in larger paddocks. Instead of constantly concentrated in certain areas.

 

[Jambo]

I agree the large paddocks (both at Werribee and Monarto) will be useful in enabling the elephants to seek time away from each other as opposed to cramped paddocks in small city zoos, where conflict is inevitable and reoccurring.

Melbourne’s keepers believe Kulab is the most likely successor to Mek Kepah as matriarch. Kulab is the heaviest female and demonstrates the most drive to take on the role of matriarch. They said the transfer of the herd to Werribee could even bring about this change, especially if Mek Kepah is willing to concede her duty. Dokkoon is older and has the largest family unit; but Zoos Victoria are fortunate in that she’s shown little to no inclination to assume a leadership role in the herd.

While unrelated, Kulab and Num-Oi have formed what the keepers refer to as a family unit, along with Num-Oi’s calf, Kati. For now, Melbourne’s herd appear content; both as a cohesive herd and breaking off into sub-groups of Dokkoon/Mali; and Kulab/Num-Oi. The calves (and Mek Kepah) transit between these groups with Aiyara/Roi-Yim and Aiyara/Kati being the most frequent combinations observed on my visits. Aiyara is a delight to watch and very interactive with all herd members.

I imagine as we transfer over to the larger sites we will see Melbournes herd still function as a herd. But having break away factions that spend time together and away from each other. Which in an of it self is a good thing. It makes better viewing if the elephants are spread out in larger paddocks. Instead of constantly concentrated in certain areas.

Coming from someone who's seen these guys for almost a decade and a half now, it's really interesting to see how the herd has drifted apart over time. Initially, the four cows were a tight knit group and I very much imagine the expansion of each matriline has contributed to this. It's not unusual to see the two groups at opposite ends of the exhibit these days, and I feel they'd certainly make use of the new complex and space at Werribee very well.

Scientists in the wild note many large elephant herds often break up into their own smaller groups during the day, to feed and the like, before returning together eventually as the day goes on to interact and to sleep together. Most elephants in zoos don't get the opportunity to do this; but Werribee's complex will give them the opportunity to do so.