Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2024

Tigergal said:
Elephants will still be held at Sydney Zoo, but hopefully they will continue as a bachelor holder. Absolutely agree that the lifestyle and opportunities with the move away from city zoos will be fantastic to watch!
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Yes I was aware of that I was just referring to the major city zoos of Sydney,Auckland, Melbourne and Perth. :)
 
Jambo said:
Definitely expected; and I'm glad Taronga have announced this ahead of time. The goal here is almost certainly to breed from Putra Mas and Pak Boon once they're both settled in. A calf at Monarto would be absolutely awesome, and hopefully come 2027 we may have a little one there.

It's equally nice for Permai and Burma to have the opportunities to be apart of an established herd, and hopefully get the opportunity to interact with calves as the years go on. It's very fitting the last elephants in city zoos will all depart within the next year (to Werribee and Monarto respectively).
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One of the many positives here is hierarchy amongst the four females is partially resolved in that Pak Boon is established as the matriarch over Tang Mo. Though there’s the potential for hierarchy to be disrupted following a move, everything we’ve heard suggests this is a fairly linear hierarchy that Burma and Permai will then be able to integrate with. Permai has lived all her adult life as a subordinate female and Burma may well be willing to relinquish the responsibility to a younger cow such as Pak Boon.
 
Luke899 said:
In news just announced from Monarto Safari Parks socials:

Pak Boon & Tang Mo are coming to Monarto!

We trumpeting with excitement to announce TWO MORE Asian Elephants are set to join Burma, Permai and Putra Mas at Monarto Safari Park!

As a generous supporter of our elephant fundraiser, your support is enabling us to build a herd of five Asian Elephants!

Pak Boon and Tang Mo from Taronga Zoo Sydney are packing up their trunks and following in the footsteps of Burma from Auckland Zoo and Permai and Putra Mas from Perth Zoo.

We can’t wait to watch as Pak Boon and Tang Mo settle in alongside Burma, Permai and Putra Mas, with the two females joining the herd just as they would in the wild.

We're also excited to announce more news about the arrival of the other three Asian Elephants!

Burma, who will transfer from Auckland Zoo looks set to arrive at Monarto Safari Park in October/November 2024 and Permai and Putra Mas from Perth Zoo in mid-2025.

Meet Pak Boon and Tang Mo

Tang Mo and Pak Boon arrived at Taronga Sydney Zoo in 2006 from Thailand. Over their time at the harbour-side zoo, the elephants have captured the hearts of the visitors and members not to mention their keepers who have lovingly cared for them over the last two decades.

Cameron Kerr AO, the CEO of Taronga Conservation Society Australia, told us about the pair, who have been much loved residents of the zoo.

“While these magnificent creatures will certainly be missed in Sydney, I’m so heartened to plan for their move to Monarto Safari Park where they will be able to join a bigger, social herd and live in a larger more complex habitat,”

“Taronga’s journey with elephants is far from over and we will continue to play an important role in the regional breeding program with seven elephants in a thriving, multi-generational herd at Taronga Western Plains Zoo, Dubbo.

“I’d like to thank the Kingdom of Thailand for their ongoing support of this program and also acknowledge the dedicated keepers and staff across Taronga Zoo Sydney who have cared for our elephants in Sydney for almost two decades,” said Cameron.

Work at Monarto Safari Park’s elephant habitat is well underway getting the space ready for the arrival of Burma, Permai, Putra Mas, Pak Boon and Tang Mo!

Extensions and renovations to the elephant barn have started and trenching and pipework is being installed to feed water into the habitat, waterholes and mud baths!
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This is a good outcome
 
Tigergal said:
Elephants will still be held at Sydney Zoo, but hopefully they will continue as a bachelor holder. Absolutely agree that the lifestyle and opportunities with the move away from city zoos will be fantastic to watch!
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I too would be surprised if Sydney Zoo phase out of elephants anytime soon. Aside from being promoted as a point of difference (as they concede their point of difference of holding the only rhinoceros in Sydney), they spent a significant amount of money to bring the bulls over from Europe.

Long term, I anticipate one of Sydney’s bulls could be transferred to Melbourne, who have said they’d look for a new bull once Luk Chai sires the next cohort of calves.
 
Breeding at Dubbo

With conformation Pak Boon (1992) and Tang Mo (1999) will be transferring to Monarto, this means Taronga Western Plains Zoo will no longer have to allocate space to these two additional cows in their future planning. At a glance, it appears the two cows would add two additional elephants to the herd; but the implications are greater when you consider space would need to be allocated for breeding from Pak Boon. She’s a reproductively viable cow. To not breed from her would be a massive loss to the region given she’s now unrepresented.

What I wonder is how this will affect Dubbo’s breeding plans. They’re attempting to breed from Anjalee now (who may already be pregnant); while the decision to retire Thong Dee (1997) and Porntip (1992) was being considered. At a minimum, I would expect to see Porntip breed again and if Anjalee has conceived already, they may look at undertaking this sooner rather than later so the calves aren’t born more than a year apart.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Breeding at Dubbo

With conformation Pak Boon (1992) and Tang Mo (1999) will be transferring to Monarto, this means Taronga Western Plains Zoo will no longer have to allocate space to these two additional cows in their future planning. At a glance, it appears the two cows would add two additional elephants to the herd; but the implications are greater when you consider space would need to be allocated for breeding from Pak Boon. She’s a reproductively viable cow. To not breed from her would be a massive loss to the region given she’s now unrepresented.

What I wonder is how this will affect Dubbo’s breeding plans. They’re attempting to breed from Anjalee now (who may already be pregnant); while the decision to retire Thong Dee (1997) and Porntip (1992) was being considered. At a minimum, I would expect to see Porntip breed again and if Anjalee has conceived already, they may look at undertaking this sooner rather than later so the calves aren’t born more than a year apart.
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Whether Anjalee manages to concieve may also determine whether Thong Dee is breed from again. At the present time Thong Dee is well represented (mainly via her first son, Luk Chai), but Dubbo may wish for an additional matriarchal line besides just Porntip and her daughter, Kanlaya.

A daughter from Thong Dee would be the best case scenario and in the event they do give her the green light for a final calf, Pathi Harn would likely be given the go for his first offspring.
 
Jambo said:
Whether Anjalee manages to concieve may also determine whether Thong Dee is breed from again. At the present time Thong Dee is well represented (mainly via her first son, Luk Chai), but Dubbo may wish for an additional matriarchal line besides just Porntip and her daughter, Kanlaya.

A daughter from Thong Dee would be the best case scenario and in the event they do give her the green light for a final calf, Pathi Harn would likely be given the go for his first offspring.
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I agree. I think we can guarantee we won’t see another mating from Gunn and Thong Dee as a third son would be highly unnecessary. It’d be nice to see Pathi Harn have an opportunity to breed, especially if Anjalee doesn’t conceive.

Due to space, it appears they don’t want three calves, but I was initially hopeful they’d consider having a cohort of three calves like Melbourne. Though I’m glad they’re prioritising Anjalee in breeding, I would have thought it’d have been beneficial for Porntip to produce a calf first (even if only be a few months) to compound whatever prior knowledge Anjalee has around calves. Hopefully she proves a good mother as all going to plan, she’ll be Kanlaya’s first role model as a mother for the birth/neonatal phase.
 
Jambo said:
Whether Anjalee manages to concieve may also determine whether Thong Dee is breed from again. At the present time Thong Dee is well represented (mainly via her first son, Luk Chai), but Dubbo may wish for an additional matriarchal line besides just Porntip and her daughter, Kanlaya.

A daughter from Thong Dee would be the best case scenario and in the event they do give her the green light for a final calf, Pathi Harn would likely be given the go for his first offspring.
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Two calves would surely be the ideal compromise between breeding from all three cows and only breeding from Anjalee.

Bearing in mind Kanlaya isn’t going to be breeding until 14 years of age and that we’re unlikely to see natural birth intervals, the below plan seems reasonable:

Anjalee: 2026
Porntip: 2026
Anjalee: 2032
Kanlaya: 2032

Bull calves born 2026 would have begun their transition out of the herd by 2032 and any cows born 2026 would be an ideal age to observe maternal skills when the 2032 calves are born.
 
Does anyone know how many elephants are currently in Australia? Like all of them combined?
Cheers
 
Luke899 said:
Does anyone know how many elephants are currently in Australia? Like all of them combined?
Cheers
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There are currently 8.19 elephants in Australasia:

8.18 in Australia
0.1 in New Zealand

Here is a list of them (also on the first page of this thread):

Current Population

Auckland Zoo:

0.1 Burma (00/00/1982) Wild x Wild; Imported 1990

Australia Zoo:

0.1 Megawati (19/07/1999) Sidarta x Umri; Imported 2019
0.1 Widya (21/05/2001) Unknown x Unknown; Imported 2019
0.1 Christina (01/12/2009) Unknown x Unknown; Imported 2019
0.1 Raflesia (00/11/2014) Unknown x Unknown; Imported 2019

Melbourne Zoo:

1.0 Luk Chai (04/07/2009) Gung x Thong Dee
1.0 Roi-Yim (25/11/2022) Luk Chai x Mali

0.1 Mek Kapah (00/00/1973) Wild x Wild; Imported 1978
0.1 Dokkoon (00/00/1993) Unknown x Unknown; Imported 2006
0.1 Kulab (00/00/2000) Unknown x Unknown; Imported 2006
0.1 Num-Oi (00/00/2001) Num Sek x Lampoon; Imported 2006
0.1 Mali (16/01/2010) Bong Su x Dokkoon
0.1 Aiyara (16/11/2022) Luk Chai x Dokkoon
0.1 Kati (01/01/2023) Luk Chai x Num Oi

Perth Zoo:

1.0 Putra Mas (00/00/1989) Wild x Wild; Imported 1992

0.1 Permai (00/00/1989) Wild x Wild; Imported 1992

Sydney Zoo:

1.0 Kavi (17/07/2014) Upali x Yasmin; Imported 2020
1.0 Ashoka (19/08/2014) Upali x Anak; Imported 2020

Taronga Zoo:

0.1 Pak Boon (00/00/1992) Unknown x Unknown; Imported 2006
0.1 Tang Mo (00/00/1999) Unknown x Unknown; Imported 2006

Taronga Western Plains Zoo:

1.0 Gung (00/00/2000) Unknown x Unknown; Imported 2006
1.0 Pathi Harn (10/03/2010) Bong Su x Porntip
1.0 Sabai (02/11/2016) Gung x Thong Dee

0.1 Porntip (00/00/1992); Imported 2006
0.1 Thong Dee (00/00/1997); Imported 2006
0.1 Anjalee (23/08/2006) Jayathu x Mayuri; Imported 2015
0.1 Kanlaya (14/06/2018) Putra Mas x Porntip

Total regional population: 8.19 Asian elephant
 
I have a question regarding the gaps between cows' breeding, and the supposed inability to conceive after extended periods (around 6-10 years). Relevant since Pak Boon is scheduled to arrive at Monarto in ~18 months pushing the limit of this 'rule'.

If the inability to conceive is connected to the scarring of the reproductive tract? wouldn't coitus even if on contraceptives delay this?

For example, when was the last time Pak Boon mated with Gung? wouldn't her ability to conceive be dated from that date rather than when she birthed Jai Dee?
 
Swanson02 said:
I have a question regarding the gaps between cows' breeding, and the supposed inability to conceive after extended periods (around 6-10 years). Relevant since Pak Boon is scheduled to arrive at Monarto in ~18 months pushing the limit of this 'rule'.

If the inability to conceive is connected to the scarring of the reproductive tract? wouldn't coitus even if on contraceptives delay this?

For example, when was the last time Pak Boon mated with Gung? wouldn't her ability to conceive be dated from that date rather than when she birthed Jai Dee?
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I believe the scarring is related to the process of ovulation, which occurs on average every 14-18 weeks in Asian elephant cows. When a cow conceives and the pregnancy progresses to term, ovulation ceases for those 22 months. Since ovulation typically doesn’t resume until around 12 months following the birth, it may be that we can count from when post-partum cycling resumes; but in any case how long a cow can go without suffering infertility would be variable to a degree.

I’m hopeful that Pak Boon, who would have resumed cycling circa 2018, will have no issues conceiving if given the opportunity to do so next year.
 
Just a quick question.

I know there are three subspecies of the asian elephant in the world, Do Australian zoos all have the general classic 'Indian Asian Elephant' species, not the borneo, sri lankan, and sumatran subspecies. (With the exception of 'Australia Zoo' who have sumatran elephants)

Or are these subspecies spread around Australia?
 
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Luke899 said:
Just a quick question.

I know there are three subspecies of the asian elephant in the world, Do Australian zoos all have the classic "Asian Elephant" species, not the borneo, sri lankan, and sumatran subspecies. (With the exception of 'Australia Zoo' who have sumatran elephants)
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No, Anjalee is Sri Lankan. Otherwise, the best information we have available suggests the others are of the Indian subspecies (with the exception of Australia Zoo’s herd).
 
Luke899 said:
so is burma the indian subspecies? I'd assume so
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Yes, Burma is an Indian elephant. She was born 1982 at a logging camp in Myanmar and came to Auckland Zoo in 1990. With the exception of a juvenile African elephant calf named Koru, who died three months after her arrival in 1983; and Anjalee, all of Auckland Zoo’s elephants have been Indian elephants.

I put the note regarding to the best of our knowledge that all the other elephants (bar Anjalee and Australia Zoo’s herd) are Indian because there was a rumour on here that some of the Dubbo herd had Sri Lankan ancestry (in addition to Anjalee). This was never substantiated and may not be correct. To my knowledge, they are Indian.
 
It should be mentioned that some people consider the Elephants of Peninsula Malaysia to be a separate subspecies to the rest of the ones on the mainland with the name Elephas maximus hirsutus. This was based off the notion that Elephants of the peninsula appear to have differently shaped ears and are generally hairier. If the peninsula elephants are indeed a separate subspecies then elephants from Malaysia like Mek Kapah and the late Bong Su would be considered different to the Indian Elephants. There are some zoos which recognise the subspecies, for example Zoo Negara in Kuala Lumpur lists their two elephants as E.m.hirsutus.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Yes, Burma is an Indian elephant. She was born 1982 at a logging camp in Myanmar and came to Auckland Zoo in 1990. With the exception of a juvenile African elephant calf named Koru, who died three months after her arrival in 1983; and Anjalee, all of Auckland Zoo’s elephants have been Indian elephants.

I put the note regarding to the best of our knowledge that all the other elephants (bar Anjalee and Australia Zoo’s herd) are Indian because there was a rumour on here that some of the Dubbo herd had Sri Lankan ancestry (in addition to Anjalee). This was never substantiated and may not be correct. To my knowledge, they are Indian.
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NathanTheAsian said:
It should be mentioned that some people consider the Elephants of Peninsula Malaysia to be a separate subspecies to the rest of the ones on the mainland with the name Elephas maximus hirsutus. This was based off the notion that Elephants of the peninsula appear to have differently shaped ears and are generally hairier. If the peninsula elephants are indeed a separate subspecies then elephants from Malaysia like Mek Kapah and the late Bong Su would be considered different to the Indian Elephants. There are some zoos which recognise the subspecies, for example Zoo Negara in Kuala Lumpur lists their two elephants as E.m.hirsutus.
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Aren't Putra Mas and Permai also from Malaysia?
 
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