Luke899
Well-Known Member
Ain't no way they'd be giving putra mas meds. Bro is too valuable and we need babies from him.
Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2024
- Thread starter Zoofan15
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Ain't no way they'd be giving putra mas meds. Bro is too valuable and we need babies from him.
Correct, it’s an inexact science and it’s too risky given his status as a breeding bull. The decision to delay the move until the middle of next year (once his musth cycle concludes) proves they intend to let nature take its course and work around him, which is good to see.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Has there been any update on the potential for breeding Australia Zoo's cows?
Unfortunately not. The latest I heard (which was two years ago and as reported by a ZooChatter who asked on their visit) was that breeding attempts will focus on the two younger cows (2009 and 2014) once a bull can be imported. I’ve yet to hear of any progress in doing so.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
What a shame! It would be a horrible loss for all four of Australia Zoo's founders to not breed.
Arguably one of Sydney's bulls (preferably Kavi) could be a relatively simple transfer there, even if just for a short time to ensure pregnancies. But given that Sydney only has two bulls atm I dont think the social logistics would add up.
Considering they're of the Sumatran species there was little interest into incorporating them within the regional population. Instead a Sumatran bull was planned from Indonesia, but it's unknown how this is progressing.
In the case of Sydney's bulls, one will almost certainly have to transfer out soon. Realistically, Werribee's probably the most likely option with Luk Chai apparently going to 'retire' after the next cohort.
Syndey’s bulls will not breed with the purebred Sumatran elephants as there is no intention to mix the subspecies at this stage.
I agree Werribee is a likely option for the Sydney bulls (one of them) given that Gung’s line is already represented at Melbourne/Werribee and a reproductive age son of Putra Mas is years away/has yet to be conceived.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I'd completely forgotten Australia Zoo had Sumatrans! That certianly presents an...interesting situation for a potential breeding program down the line.
Yeah it would certainly have been beneficial (on a regional level) had Australia Zoo imported Indian or Sri Lankan elephants. I was hopeful somebody (either them or Sydney) would acquire bulls from within the region as there were a few first generation bulls with no apparent designation at that point in time:
- Luk Chai - breeding bull at Melbourne/Werribee
- Pathi Harn - still at Dubbo (potential mate of Anjalee)
- Man Jai - deceased
We can now add Sabai to this line up.
Luk Chai was the obvious candidate for transferring to Melbourne (socially and genetically) and was seen as a better alternative to persisting with AI (with all three of Melbourne’s viable cows requiring a mate).
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
It wouldn't surprise me if Sabai makes his way to Sydney if one of their bulls departs. It would cost less than an export and make sure the remaining bull at Sydney still had a companion.
That would make a lot of sense. He’s a first generation bull and son of two founders unrepresented in North America, so I also wouldn’t be surprised long term if there was any interest in exporting him to the US.
Otherwise, he could transfer to Sydney to be mentored by their remaining bull. The one thing I can hear guarantee is he won’t be used for breeding at any point in time, being a full brother of Luk Chai.
If Putra Mas is only to breed with Pak Boon going forward, he will remain our most valuable bull (his only surviving daughter to date won’t be breeding until she’s early teens).
The current management at Australia Zoo do lack the necessary drive acumen and vision to import 1-2 or more Sumatran elephants. It is beyond comprehension why this has not happened already. The Sumatran cows are now just waisting away......
Gung is the heaviest elephant in Australasia:
It was mentioned on socials that Gung is the heaviest land mammal in Australia, making him the heaviest elephant in the region. Gung weighs over 5 tonnes.
Putra Mas would be the next heaviest; followed by Luk Chai.
There’s a video of him here for those wanting to see his tusks:
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It was mentioned on socials that Gung is the heaviest land mammal in Australia, making him the heaviest elephant in the region. Gung weighs over 5 tonnes.
Putra Mas would be the next heaviest; followed by Luk Chai.
There’s a video of him here for those wanting to see his tusks:
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Wow, Gung has surely grown. Considering he's always been known as quite the small bull it seems he's hit his growth spurt in recent years which isn't surprising since bulls grow throughout the entirety or their lifetime.
In comparison he's around the same weight as Bong Su was, and Bong Su was absolutely huge. In saying that, Bong Su was quite a lean bull. It would be intriguing to see how tall Gung is. It does seem he's filled out a lot.
Yeah considering Gung is 24 years old, he’s just reaching his prime which is bizarre to imagine considering his eldest offspring is 15 years old and already a sire himself.
Of course Taronga noted (and as we all know) that Gung began siring calves at a much younger age than he would in the wild; and indeed, captive elephants typically mature earlier.
Ultimately, I think the success of the regional breeding programme has exceeded all expectation - going from having no calves born in over a century of keeping elephants in Australasian zoos; to 14 calves born since 2009.
Having bulls that are natural breeders has been hugely advantageous; with many of the region’s historic imports being behavioural non-breeders; or paired with non-viable cows.
How many of the 14 calves have survived ? the breeding program has gone very well, however it is starting to look a bit stalled, especially at western plains zoo. Hopefully we with monarto and a Werribee complex we can see more calves born. So far we may have bred a decent amount but we have also lost a decent amount as well. The loss of the females especially has really put the breeding program on precarious grounds, especially with reduced breeding for fear of producing and having to house unwanted males.
He is maturing into a fantastic looking bull, and its good to see western plains have a bull with tusks!.
At 24 he will still pack on size up until he is in his mid 30's, so the potential for him to be quite a large bull is certainly there. It will be interesting to see how Luk chai ages, and whether he will take after his father and size up in his 20's.
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
Fate of calves born in Australasian zoos:
1.0 Luk Chai (2009) Taronga - Alive
0.1 Mali (2010) Melbourne - Alive
1.0 Pathi Harn (2010) Taronga - Alive
1.0 Ongard (2010) Melbourne - Exported 2018
0.1 Tukta (2010) Taronga - Died 2018
1.0 Sanook (2013) Melbourne - Died 2013
1.0 Man Jai (2013) Melbourne - Died 2023
0.1 Willow (2016) Melbourne - Died 2016
1.0 Sabai (2016) Dubbo - Alive
1.0 Jai Dee (2017) Taronga - Died 2020
0.1 Kanlaya (2018) Dubbo - Alive
0.1 Aiyara (2022) Melbourne - Alive
1.0 Roi-Yim (2022) Melbourne - Alive
0.1 Kati (2023) Melbourne - Alive
Werribee are planning for another cohort of calves to be conceived sometime after the transfer from Melbourne.
I’m hopeful that we’ll hear news from Dubbo soon that Anjalee is pregnant. The annual report stated the intention was for her to conceive by the end of 2023. Personally, I think it would be wise to breed from Porntip again, but accept capacity is a concern.
This is a photo of Luk Chai I took in November 2023. He’s quite a tall bull and this was apparent from his early years, with Taronga staff noting the subsequent calf (Pathi Harn) was stockier, but not as tall.
Though I anticipated Pathi Harn would overtake Luk Chai in size, the latter was still noticeably bigger upon his transfer to Melbourne in 2020. Given Gung’s recent growth spurt, we may have an indication why!
